David Moyes - sign or go ?

[Lowensda]

Jack Butland, Trev?

[SimonButtle]

I just don't understand why after 11 years of what have been relative success for Moyes, why has he all of a sudden decided to start digging his own grave and potentially ending everything on a very sour note. We need a comfortable victory against Oldham.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

So if we look jaded and have no energy or drive it's not the manager's fault? Isn't a big part of his job the training regime and player motivation?

 

 

I think its more down to the size of the squad

 

We have players who look as though they desperately need a rest but we have nobody to bring in to enable Moyse to do that

[SimonButtle]

a comfortable victory over oldham i think not we will struggle as we have done for the last 2 months.

Your probably right mate, the whole situation just stinks at the moment, i find it unlike us to be so disjointed as we are the moment. It certainly seems like morale and effort is low which could possibly be down to Moyes and his contract saga. I can just him leaving in the summer and Fellaini following behind him after being sold to make a transfer kitty for the new manager

[MikeO]

I think its more down to the size of the squad

 

We have players who look as though they desperately need a rest but we have nobody to bring in to enable Moyse to do that

 

We've always had a small squad and some of our best runs have been when we've been in Europe playing two games a week....a pro footballer should be able to play ninety minutes a week without needing a rest ffs.

[pete0]

Moyes has options, just refuses to use them.

Oviedo, Hitz, Duffy, Vellios, Barkley, and Browning would have all had more minute under a different manager. Look at Arsenal when all their full backs were injured they promoted Jenkins, got hammered 8-2 by utd, but didn't lose faith in him and in the long run its paid off.

[Blue 250]

I just don't understand why after 11 years of what have been relative success for Moyes, why has he all of a sudden decided to start digging his own grave and potentially ending everything on a very sour note. We need a comfortable victory against Oldham.

 

I'll settle for a very uncomfortable win, so will Moyes.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Moyes has options, just refuses to use them.

Oviedo, Hitz, Duffy, Vellios, Barkley, and Browning would have all had more minute under a different manager. Look at Arsenal when all their full backs were injured they promoted Jenkins, got hammered 8-2 by utd, but didn't lose faith in him and in the long run its paid off.

 

 

Not one of them are good enough to be starting, and none of them are likely to change a game when brought off the bench

 

I would maybe give Hitz a go ahead of Ossie at the moment but thats about it

Edited February 23, 2013 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[pete0]

Not one of them are good enough to be starting, and none of them are likely to change a game when brought off the bench

Neville has played 10 games in midfield since Hitzlsperger has been fit no brainer who offers more, Hitz would have done a much better job filling the gap Gibson left. Oviedo looks useful, he can't be any less effective than Pienaar the last 2 monthes. A kid should have had the chance when we had no fit rb, playing Jags there was poor management. The teams used to carrying an extra man it might as well have been a kid rather than a 35 whose legs have sadly gone and offers f all than a finger point. I'm not saying they're good enough to play every game, but all of them are useful enough to be rotated in the squad, if not why have them on the wage bill. Even more so if Moyes had it in him to develop some new tactics around them.

Edited February 23, 2013 by pete0

[Guest]

How do you know they cant change a game when they havent had a chance?

[SimonButtle]

Not one of them are good enough to be starting, and none of them are likely to change a game when brought off the bench

 

I would maybe give Hitz a go ahead of Ossie at the moment but thats about it

3 of those players are players Moyes has brought into the club himself, ie Oviedo,Vellios and Hitz, so if your saying they are not good enough then surely thats poor scouting/player selection from the manager then? and players on the bench should be good enough to play in the team otherwise there is no point in them being on the bench, again down to the manager imo.

[Dalziel Kane]

Moyes was ideally looking for champions league soccer this season and even read he will indeed step down if that is not achieved, so he's as good as on his way by all accounts. Even a UEFA cup place might not be enough to persuade him to stay on, not that I really want that right now. Of course as always we still have a realistic chance of winning a first trophy in 18 overdue years, and if Moyes can do it, and even then leave in the summer, more power to him but at this moment in time not even sure we can win the fifth round replay, and I can't even remember right now who it may be in the last eight. Wigan at home I think, but it's been a long day. Today was fucking disappointing once again, but there's still a quarter season to go, so best to reserve judgment until the very end, but I'm just about run out of patience these days.

[Avinalaff]

I think fans are rightly disgruntled, but a series of events has put a dampener on things it seems, from Moyes not signing a contract, Chelsea saga with Fellaini, disappointing transfer dealings, and the same players getting picked regularly despite being below the required standard.

 

I think Moyes is losing fans patience very quickly, and that's a shame, but I detect a smugness in his persona that I've not seen before, and I don't think I like it.

 

If I was Kenwright right now, I'd sack him. Sorry Dave, but we deserve better all round.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Avinalaff

[badaids]

He must want to see if we'll have european football, and what offers come in for him (which they will). Can't blame him for that, but I do wish he'd make up his fucking mind now. If he does go, unless we get a top replacement in, I'm sure that Baines and Felli will be off, also unless we do sell, how the fuck will we fund the new manager. I can't help but feel bleak about this.

[Oztoffee]

 

In the time Moyes has been at Everton look at the money clubs like Spurs, Newcastle, Villa, Sunderland, etc have thrown around and look what they have won

Nothing, I agree. But then their club's motto isn't Nil Satis Nisi Optimum!

[GoodisonRoad]

Not one of them are good enough to be starting, and none of them are likely to change a game when brought off the bench

 

I would maybe give Hitz a go ahead of Ossie at the moment but thats about it

 

Well we know Barkley might be able to/been able too. He was MOTM against QPR on his debut and after a silly mistake in the next game he wasnt seen for another year until he came on against stoke away and then chelsea at home. Hardly the ideal settings to give the lad another go. I think Oviedo can make an impact as well, we severely lack pace in our team and pienaar just hasnt been cutting it lately so i would be in favour of giving Oviedo a start, or possibly 45 mins from the bench, or maybe playing pienaar behind jelavic/anichebe and dropping ossie.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

This all goes to show just how fickle some of our fans are, yes it was a dire performance but I think overall its still been a good season. Im just glad our chairman isnt as prone to knee jerk reactions as some of you lot.

 

 

Barkley couldnt force his way into the Leeds team yet some of the keyboard warriors in here still think they know better and think he should be in the Everton side

 

Vellios proved last season that he isnt ready to be starting games in the Premiership

 

Duffy is not as good at Jags or Distin, thats not to say he wont be in the future

 

Ty Browning, I bet nobody has ever even seen him play, same goes for Stones

 

I havent see anything in Oviedo to suggest he should play ahead of Baines or Piennar

 

Hitz has done ok when he has been on but does have a tendancy to give the ball away cheaply

 

 

If anyone wonders why Moyes isnt ready to put his trust in our fringe players then look no further than the Leeds game

[SimonButtle]

This all goes to show just how fickle some of our fans are, yes it was a dire performance but I think overall its still been a good season. Im just glad our chairman isnt as prone to knee jerk reactions as some of you lot.

 

 

Barkley couldnt force his way into the Leeds team yet some of the keyboard warriors in here still think they know better and think he should be in the Everton side

 

Vellios proved last season that he isnt ready to be starting games in the Premiership. He has also proved that he can score goals in the Premiership though

 

Duffy is not as good at Jags or Distin, thats not to say he wont be in the future. No, but he should surely be getting a chance ahead of Heitinga at the moment based on performances?

 

Ty Browning, I bet nobody has ever even seen him play, same goes for Stones. Agree with you on this tbh.

 

I havent see anything in Oviedo to suggest he should play ahead of Baines or Piennar. Not Baines, but Pienaar has been really shite at times this season, and when Oviedo has come on, he has shown he probably deserves more than the 10mins each game Moyes is giving him.

 

Hitz has done ok when he has been on but does have a tendancy to give the ball away cheaply. Tbh i probably agree with you on this other than the fact i don't think Gibson looks 100% fit and Osman needs a rest.

 

 

If anyone wonders why Moyes isnt ready to put his trust in our fringe players then look no further than the Leeds game

[Matt]

I dont get the tired thing. They play 2-3 times a week max. Sounds like theyve been given an excuse and, knowing its there, have lost part of their drive.

 

Im still reeling. I dont want him sacked, but the least he could do is, for the 1st time, come out, hold his hands up and say "its my fault". That would at least show hes got a pair, still cares and isnt just waiting for his contract to expire.

[Bailey]

I think its more down to the size of the squad

 

We have players who look as though they desperately need a rest but we have nobody to bring in to enable Moyse to do that

 

Thats what comes of playing your full first team week in week out. No-one wants wholesale changes each week as we clearly dont have the squad, but bringing a player in for one game here, another to freshen someone else up will only help in the long run. Playing a full strength team against Cheltenham has come back to bite us and some players should have had a rest.

 

This all goes to show just how fickle some of our fans are, yes it was a dire performance but I think overall its still been a good season. Im just glad our chairman isnt as prone to knee jerk reactions as some of you lot.

 

 

Barkley couldnt force his way into the Leeds team yet some of the keyboard warriors in here still think they know better and think he should be in the Everton side

 

Vellios proved last season that he isnt ready to be starting games in the Premiership

 

Duffy is not as good at Jags or Distin, thats not to say he wont be in the future

 

Ty Browning, I bet nobody has ever even seen him play, same goes for Stones

 

I havent see anything in Oviedo to suggest he should play ahead of Baines or Piennar

 

Hitz has done ok when he has been on but does have a tendancy to give the ball away cheaply

 

 

If anyone wonders why Moyes isnt ready to put his trust in our fringe players then look no further than the Leeds game

 

I dont know where you got that bit about Barkley? He was let go because Leeds basically couldnt afford him given their current situation. He was playing well, creating opportunities and Warnock was praising him.

 

Vellios started against Stoke... You know that team that kept Saha, Fellaini, Jelavic and so on quiet in the games that we played at their place. Does that mean the latter two arent good enough now either! Poor management if anything!

 

Duffy might not be better than Jags/Distin atm but when Heitinga was moved to CB and Jags RB then he must have been an option? Moyes may have hoped that Heitinga would work his form out by playing, which I wouldnt disagree with, but he was certainly an option.

 

I agree with the Stones/Browning arguement because I have never seen either.

 

Pienaar has been dreadful in these last few months and bar the odd glimpse I have seen nothing to suggest that Oviedo wouldn't be a better option. At least Oviedo looks like he can cross the ball properly and he has pace. Again it doesn't mean he has to start every game, but coming in for 3 or 4 games over Christmas wouldn't have hurt us in the slightest.

 

So Gibson, Osman, Neville etc etc all haven't given the ball away cheaply? Personally I haven't even seen that from Hitz, he isn't a world beater but he is another solid option and bringing him for a couple of games wont have a negative effect on the team. In fact if its ahead of Neville in midfield then it can only be positive.

 

The worst players in that Leeds game were the first team starters! Barely any youngsters even got a run out! I even felt sorry for Junior because he was asked to be something he isn't. Its no wonder they all look scared shitless when they play for us because unless they don't make any mistakes they are banished for months!

[Avinalaff]

This all goes to show just how fickle some of our fans are, yes it was a dire performance but I think overall its still been a good season. Im just glad our chairman isnt as prone to knee jerk reactions as some of you lot.

 

 

Barkley couldnt force his way into the Leeds team yet some of the keyboard warriors in here still think they know better and think he should be in the Everton side

 

Vellios proved last season that he isnt ready to be starting games in the Premiership

 

Duffy is not as good at Jags or Distin, thats not to say he wont be in the future

 

Ty Browning, I bet nobody has ever even seen him play, same goes for Stones

 

I havent see anything in Oviedo to suggest he should play ahead of Baines or Piennar

 

Hitz has done ok when he has been on but does have a tendancy to give the ball away cheaply

 

 

If anyone wonders why Moyes isnt ready to put his trust in our fringe players then look no further than the Leeds game

 

 

I don't think it's a kneejerk reaction or indeed fickleness to be fair, at least regarding my own opinion, as I've always been a Moyes loyal fan, but I am unhappy with his current attitude, and as a result he is gradually losing my confidence and support.

 

1: Public display of a lack of commitment regarding his contract

2: Smug interviews and responses

3: Same team, same tactics, same outcome

4: Bad handling of the transfer window

5: This is Everton Football Club. Either bite the clubs hand off to get a new contract, or resign, and let another attempt to rescue the season

 

I look at our situation and I see things being taken for granted, and not enough enthusiasm from the manager. If it were a relationship I would be more than a bit paranoid and uncomfortable about things.

 

"I'm not sure I love you anymore. I'll see how I feel at the end of the year".

 

How about I make your mind up for you darling Davey ? The door is that way. Do one.

[MikeO]

I don't think it's a kneejerk reaction or indeed fickleness to be fair, at least regarding my own opinion, as I've always been a Moyes loyal fan, but I am unhappy with his current attitude, and as a result he is gradually losing my confidence and support.

 

+1

[Dalziel Kane]

He's even holding out for a salary rise of all things ? Yeah, that was justified once again yesterday wasn't it ?

 

Say what you like, but I think Moyes earns too much as it is, regardless of league successes, and at times I don't think I'd even pay him shirt buttons. It seems he's merely holding out until end of season until making a decision, and while angering supporters or leaving players in the dark as to his true intentions, you can kind of understand that delayment. But there has to be some resolvement to all this by end of season, and once again, if Moyes does say that's all, and we look for someone else, there will be a kind of relief. Just getting beyond stale now for some.

[Hafnia]

The problem isnt moyes staying or going. The problem is that many people believe that without him we will be relegation fodder - the reason for this is that our board have made cock ups that have cost us financially and have rendered us skint. Fans are grateful to Davie for being happy to collect £70k a week and provide top 7ish league finishes, because they can remember the walter smith years well and have seen other clubs lose stabilising managers and sink.

 

Lets say we have a first class board, who have a 5 year plan, who are making deals and increasing revenue streams with the odd one in there prepared to invest in allowing us to go for players that will get us top 4 - would we be scared of moyes going? No chance, we would be looking at Laudrup to come in, or a manager who can get his teams to play expansive football. Not a manager who bottles it and that fear is replicated in his players who will lash the ball up field till they concede yet another late goal to a team less able than ourselves.

 

 

Moyes is the pair of stabilisers on a rubbish unbalanced bike that is the board. We are the scared kid riding that bike who wants to win races but cant with the stabilisers, the kid doesnt want to take off the stabilisers in case they fall of the crappy bike.

 

That kid needs a new bike - yep they can still ride the bike with the stabilisers as it does a job supporting that chunk of metal, but they are looking at their mates pulling wheelies and they want a bit of that. New bike means no need for stabilsers = more fun.

 

Sale of the club is vital, then moyes cant hold us to ransom. His attitude is a disgrace.

[Guest]

Did you mention stabilisers?

[Louis]

http://www.thetimes....icle3698169.ece

 

Everton’s financial past is casting a shadow over the future of David Moyes

 

Moyes is in his eleventh year in charge at Goodison Park Barrington Coombs

Tony Evans Football Editor

 

Last updated at 12:01AM, February 25 2013

 

Perceptions change quickly in football. A little more than two months ago, David Moyes had Everton climbing into the top four. One game short of the mid-season mark, Goodison Park hosting Champions League matches was looking like a realistic option. The next nine league games gave Everton a reality check.

 

From being level on points with Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur in the race to finish fourth, Moyes’s team are now six points adrift of Spurs and five behind Arsène Wenger’s side. A late collapse against Norwich City on Saturday underlined Everton’s loss of form.

 

 

Moyes is out of contract this summer. When his team were riding high at the tail end of 2012, the subject of an extended deal was brought up. The Scot elected to wait until the end of the season before committing. It’s an easy leap to attribute Everton’s loss of form to the uncertainty created by this decision. Easy, but wrong. The roots of their inability to keep pace with the division’s big boys go back a long time — perhaps a decade or more.

 

The 49-year-old is in his eleventh year in charge at Goodison. He was condemned to struggle right from the beginning when Everton were unable to complete two deals that might have changed the face of football on Merseyside.

 

The first was not the club’s fault. A £30 million investment agreed with NTL fell apart when the cable TV company went into bankruptcy. Bill Kenwright and the Everton board reacted by borrowing money to fill the void. By the time the £30 million, 25-year loan is repaid, it will have cost Everton £68 million.

 

The second potential deal has had an even more damaging effect. Everton were offered a 55,000-seat stadium on the Mersey waterfront, largely financed by public and European money. Everton’s contribution was a mere £30 million. The club failed to come up with the cash.

After that, income has increasingly become a problem. Too many financial decisions have been made with the short term in mind. Such a policy always catches up with the manager.

 

It is showing in Moyes’s side now.

 

In a transfer window where Everton might have plumped to strengthen for a top-four push, they brought in one recruit: John Stones, an 18-year-old from Barnsley. He has plenty of potential but, for once, thinking of the here and now looked a better policy. Moyes has used 22 players in the first team this season, the fewest in the top flight, and the squad looks stretched in a number of areas.

 

Yet the money is not there to spend. Everton’s wage bill was £63.4 million last season, 75 per cent of turnover for a club who lost £9.1 million. There is just not enough income to finance a spending spree. This is the best side Moyes has had under his charge. Looking at the balance sheet, it’s unlikely he’ll get a better one.

 

There has been some carping about Moyes’s salary. He is paid about £4 million a year but, in a league where positions in the table often mirror spending on salary, Everton are punching above their weight. Given the club’s outlay on wages, they should be vying for tenth place, never mind fourth. Moyes has earned his money.

 

It was inevitable that the weakness in the squad would have an impact at some point. It is unfortunate for Moyes that it is manifesting itself in the second half of the season. A fine start is swept from the memories of potential employers by a stuttering end to the season. Other managers catch the eye — such as Michael Laudrup yesterday. The lack of a trophy is perceived to be a huge blot on Moyes’s CV and the Swansea City manager feels fresher, more vital and youthful than his Everton counterpart, even though the Dane is just a year younger.

 

What can Moyes do to change things? Not much. He cannot turn the clock back on a decade of boardroom misadventure. The dips in form on the pitch are a mere symptom. The errors were made behind the scenes long ago.

 

The FA Cup now becomes even more important to Moyes. A win over Oldham Athletic tomorrow would set up a winnable quarter-final with Wigan Athletic. The Scot can regain momentum and confirm his credentials with a trophy. But the Champions League looks a place or two too far, even for a manager of his ability.

 

[Lowensda]

For Laudrup lovers...reports of 'big' teams circling

 

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11731/8524783/Nathan-Dyer-says-life-would-go-on-at-Swansea-without-Michael-Laudrup

[Louis]

The Huffington Post are asking 'Is Everton now stagnant under Moyes?': http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/25/everton-stagnant-moyes_n_2757219.html?1361786005&utm_hp_ref=uk-sport

[Peter H]

For Laudrup lovers...reports of 'big' teams circling

 

http://www1.skysport...Michael-Laudrup

 

Chelsea mentioned. Given up on Moyes after the terrible start this year?

[marcopaulo]

I don't think it's a kneejerk reaction or indeed fickleness to be fair, at least regarding my own opinion, as I've always been a Moyes loyal fan, but I am unhappy with his current attitude, and as a result he is gradually losing my confidence and support.

 

1: Public display of a lack of commitment regarding his contract

2: Smug interviews and responses

3: Same team, same tactics, same outcome

4: Bad handling of the transfer window

5: This is Everton Football Club. Either bite the clubs hand off to get a new contract, or resign, and let another attempt to rescue the season

 

I look at our situation and I see things being taken for granted, and not enough enthusiasm from the manager. If it were a relationship I would be more than a bit paranoid and uncomfortable about things.

 

"I'm not sure I love you anymore. I'll see how I feel at the end of the year".

 

How about I make your mind up for you darling Davey ? The door is that way. Do one.

 

this is pretty much how i'm starting to feel