Cornish Steve Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 According to the Mirror, he's "demanding" to know how he fits into Everton's plans. I really don't understand this. When an employee is under-performing, the last thing I expect is for them to demand to know their future with the company. Instead, I expect them to knuckle down, work hard, and prove what they can do. If he's concerned about playing time, then speak quietly to the manager. What does he hope to achieve by making this a public matter - except to bring attention to his recent lack of performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof_It_Nev Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 No quotes = bullshit. Ignore Bailey, nutmegwolf203 and Romey 1878 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/everton-transfers-nikica-jelavic-talks-2056027? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 According to the Mirror, he's "demanding" to know how he fits into Everton's plans. I really don't understand this. When an employee is under-performing, the last thing I expect is for them to demand to know their future with the company. Instead, I expect them to knuckle down, work hard, and prove what they can do. If he's concerned about playing time, then speak quietly to the manager. What does he hope to achieve by making this a public matter - except to bring attention to his recent lack of performance? Try not to treat newspaper stories as fact, Cornish, you'll save yourself a lot of bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 This makes more sense: http://www.teamtalk.com/premier-league/8826434/Everton-midfielder-Leon-Osman-backs-Nikica-Jelavic-to-thrive-on-competition Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Always thought that there was no question over his commitment or attitude to be honest. Even when he wasnt scoring i thought he still put in bags of effort. Looking forward to seeing him in competition against Kone, or even alongside him. Sibdane, nutmegwolf203 and Matt 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 In my opinion, Jelavic is still the default first choice right now. After training, Martinez will decide who to start week one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) In my opinion, Jelavic is still the default first choice right now. After training, Martinez will decide who to start week one. How do you mean still? Anichebe had already claimed that role by the end of last season. I'm fairly sure Koné will be starting up top against Norwich. Edited July 17, 2013 by Steve_E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 How do you mean still? Anichebe had already claimed that role by the end of last season. I'm fairly sure Koné will be starting up top against Norwich. Let me rephrase it then. To me, Jelavic is the best striker at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memmaclub Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Agree I think jelavic and Kone together could work. Kone doing all the running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I don't think Martinez is going to play with two up top. Bailey and SimonButtle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) I don't think Martinez is going to play with two up top. I agree, I think he will have 3 Kone Jela Deulofeu Or go with a 4231, which would be my preference. Edited July 19, 2013 by Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I agree, I think he will have 3 Kone Jela Deulofeu Doesn't the thought of this really get you excited? It does me. The average number of goals per game could be double that of last season. Sibdane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I agree, I think he will have 3 Kone Jela Deulofeu Or go with a 4231, which would be my preference. What about Super Kev? I think his 433/4231 is just the same anyway, only difference is the position of the wingers. that would change depending on possession anyway. x-x-x-x --x-x-- ---x--- -x-x-x- x-x-x-x --x-x-- -x-x-x- ---x--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 What about Super Kev? I think his 433/4231 is just the same anyway, only difference is the position of the wingers. that would change depending on possession anyway. x-x-x-x --x-x-- ---x--- -x-x-x- x-x-x-x --x-x-- -x-x-x- ---x--- The only difference for the wingers between a 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 is where they defend. They will do the exact same things in possession. I see lots of people who seem to think that the wingers are somehow more attacking or play further forward in a 4-3-3 than in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-1-1 in possession as well, but that's not true. Wingers are always going to play as high up the pitch as they can, either get as close to goal as they can to have a higher chance of success of scoring a goal or get as close as they can to the touchline to put a cross in etc. It's not like wingers in a 4-4-1-1 are gonna stand at the half-way line and say, I'm not gonna go further forward than this! Formations as they are commonly used describe defensive shapes, not attacking ones. That should be pretty obvious just by the fact that Baines and Coleman are never on the same line as Distin and Jagielka either when we have the ball, yet a lot of people think Pienaar and Mirallas will suddenly be much more attacking if we play a 4-3-3 rather than a 4-4-1-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I think you miss understood me. In possession it will look more like a 433, without the ball it would appear more like 4231 as the wingers would drop a little deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Based on what I seem of jelavic over the last 2 seasons versus kone I would say kone has far more to offer. If jelavic can rediscover his goal scoring touch touch and composure then great , but unfortunately I've seen a player who lets it get on top of him - not good. Kone will be the workhorse striker that Moyes had been trying to sign since Marcus bent, but kone is far more technically accomplished and intelligent in his play. I think Gerard will be a great player, as an out and out striker I'm not sure but definitely on the flank of an offensive 3 or behind the main striker in a 4-4-2. Exciting times at goodison though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I think you miss understood me. In possession it will look more like a 433, without the ball it would appear more like 4231 as the wingers would drop a little deeper. Technically it will look more like a 2-3-2-3 in possession and probably more of a 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 (as you say) when we are defending. I too dont see us playing with two main strikers and given what we have seen so far and what I have seen from Martinez I suspect it will be Kone up top with two wingers either side of him (Mirallas/Deulfolue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Based on what I seem of jelavic over the last 2 seasons versus kone I would say kone has far more to offer. If jelavic can rediscover his goal scoring touch touch and composure then great , but unfortunately I've seen a player who lets it get on top of him - not good. Kone will be the workhorse striker that Moyes had been trying to sign since Marcus bent, but kone is far more technically accomplished and intelligent in his play. I think Gerard will be a great player, as an out and out striker I'm not sure but definitely on the flank of an offensive 3 or behind the main striker in a 4-4-2. Exciting times at goodison though! I would agree that Kone is the more technically-able striker in the all-around game of the two, but when it comes down to purely finishing, I think Jelavic is more lethal (when he's on his game). If Jelavic can rediscover his form from his first season and gets the service he requires, then I think he's up there with the best in the Prem finishing-wise. His goals in the latter half of the of 11/12 season were exquisitely placed! Romey 1878 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Technically it will look more like a 2-3-2-3 in possession and probably more of a 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 (as you say) when we are defending. I too dont see us playing with two main strikers and given what we have seen so far and what I have seen from Martinez I suspect it will be Kone up top with two wingers either side of him (Mirallas/Deulfolue). Hopefully Pienaar will get a run out behind the striker with Felli and Gibson behind him. I like the way that could look. StevO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Technically it will look more like a 2-3-2-3 in possession and probably more of a 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 (as you say) when we are defending. I too dont see us playing with two main strikers and given what we have seen so far and what I have seen from Martinez I suspect it will be Kone up top with two wingers either side of him (Mirallas/Deulfolue). Sort of agree, but two midfielders will sit deep. We saw that against Vienna and Stanley. If he does it against poor opposition like Stanley I would expect it against good opposition too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Based on what I seem of jelavic over the last 2 seasons versus kone I would say kone has far more to offer. Based on....a very bad/short memory from yourself? Season before, people were talking about Jelavic as THE answer to our number 9. Everything he touched turned to gold. The boy did no wrong. We spoke of him as one of the best strikers in Europe, that he'd demand a huge fee. He has one poor season (based soley IMO on the system we played in that season). I'll have a bet on that, if played for the same amount of time, Jelavic would have a better goal return. Based purely on the fact that Martinez 'spunked' the best part of £6m on him, bad form or not, Kone is a known entity to Roberto an will start ahead of Jellyman. The attacking system that Roberto plays with, I'm sure, will get the best back out of Jelavic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Based on....a very bad/short memory from yourself? Season before, people were talking about Jelavic as THE answer to our number 9. Everything he touched turned to gold. The boy did no wrong. We spoke of him as one of the best strikers in Europe, that he'd demand a huge fee. He has one poor season (based soley IMO on the system we played in that season). I'll have a bet on that, if played for the same amount of time, Jelavic would have a better goal return. Based purely on the fact that Martinez 'spunked' the best part of £6m on him, bad form or not, Kone is a known entity to Roberto an will start ahead of Jellyman. The attacking system that Roberto plays with, I'm sure, will get the best back out of Jelavic. Maybe the 42 games Jelavic had last year are more indicative of his ability than the 16 games he had the season before. I wasn't sold on him at the time either btw, but you can't really complain if he scores like he did back then. Also, we played the same system last year as we did when he did score goals for us. And Roberto's attacking system requires a striker to be able to play, Jelavic can't so I don't think that's gonna get the best out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I'll eat humble pie happily if Kone proves me wrong but I still can't see how he's as 'great' as some say. Potentially, we have two average at best strikers. That we've paid the best part of £11m on in 18months. That's my worry. Quinn31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) I think you miss understood me. In possession it will look more like a 433, without the ball it would appear more like 4231 as the wingers would drop a little deeper. In possession it won't look like a 4-3-3 either. There won't be a line of 4 at the back for starters. But attacking shapes differ a lot in different stages of the attack as well (and whether the ball is on the left or the right etc, all matters) so it's hard to describe them accurately. But I get your point. Sort of agree, but two midfielders will sit deep. We saw that against Vienna and Stanley. If he does it against poor opposition like Stanley I would expect it against good opposition too. I think we saw both one deep and two deep midfielders in stretches in both games. Two deep midfielders isn't more defensive per se than one deep midfielder either so I wouldn't write it off based on the fact that he had two deep midfielders at times in preseason. All three of them can still play behind the ball when there's just one deep midfielder as well so it's still as "defensive" a set up, it's just a different way of defending. One deep midfielder can work particularly well against a team that plays 2 up top (the deep midfielder will be an extra defender to outnumber them in whatever zone of the pitch you want) or that build up play with two deep midfielders and a number 10 (which is getting increasingly common in the PL): the deep midfielder picks up the number 10, the midfielders further forward man mark the two deep midfielders of the opposition and you have a spare centre back who is free to step up to make interceptions and can cover for midfield runners when one of the midfielders doesn't do his job properly. There's always cover when one of your players gets outdone by the opposition. Edited July 19, 2013 by Steve_E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) If you want to go that far then there are numerous formations depending on who has the ball and where on the pitch. See executioners bong for some great info. For basically saying two formations are the same you've not half complicated it. And on the deep midfielders, it's still two either way. It's just that one will push one from time to time to assist with the over load Martinez likes to use. Your post reads more like formations don't exist if you want to keep breaking them down play by play. Edited July 19, 2013 by StevO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cake Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 Unless Jelavic adapts to The Martinez Way then he's surplus (so is Anichebe). Kone will be alright as he can play much deeper than Jelavic in particluar and he also has the ability to get himself into the box for that final ball. Martinez's system in general is based more on his striker(s) being almost an attacking/most forward midfielder(s) and unless Jelavic can adapt to this, as Kone can, then there's no point us paying his wages and no point in him looking for a game of football with us. SimonButtle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 Jelavic's first touch was shocking last season, found himself offside far too often also. Lets see if he gets his form back.... Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 Jelavic's first touch was shocking last season, found himself offside far too often also. Lets see if he gets his form back.... I agree Haf, but you got to admit that neither he nor Victor or Vellios are really the sort of strikers Martinez would play in his system, they are all going to have to change their games quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 I agree Haf, but you got to admit that neither he nor Victor or Vellios are really the sort of strikers Martinez would play in his system, they are all going to have to change their games quite a bit. RM found a use for Di Santo, don't think our strikers will have to worry too much about the system Martinez uses, more emphasis will be on how they will impact the opposition. I'm excited to see what he can squeeze out of our squad now Moyes' shackles are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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