StevO Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 With them buying the Spanish kid today I'd expect them to ship Cleverley out ASAP. I see a United fire sale coming soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Just sign the bastard so I can get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Just sign the bastard so I can get over it. Ha my thinking to Mark. I think its inevitable we are going to sign him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Where are you guys going that Cleverley will be a good signing for us? For a reported fee of 8m? The guy is the laughing stock of the premier league, and rightly so. he's proved time and time again that he's not good enough. bar three reasonably succesfull loan spells the last of which ended THREE YEARS AGO. He's not going to develop into a decent premiership midfielder. the fact people on here are even entertaining the idea of him is baffling to me. MC11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Where are you guys going that Cleverley will be a good signing for us? For a reported fee of 8m? The guy is the laughing stock of the premier league, and rightly so. he's proved time and time again that he's not good enough. bar three reasonably succesfull loan spells the last of which ended THREE YEARS AGO. He's not going to develop into a decent premiership midfielder. the fact people on here are even entertaining the idea of him is baffling to me. Poor Tom Cleverley, slated by fans who slate him without ever really understanding why they are slating him. "Where's that petition - let me sign it... no lets boo him aswell - how dare he be the next Paul Scholes, give me Xavi, iniesta, actually that Barkley looks good, lets get him in and destroy his confidence!!!" I suppose Paul Pogba understands how Cleverley feels, he's laughing his head off now aint he. I would get Welbeck and Cleverley, both players need to be at a club where there isn't some ridiculous expectation on them. United are destroying all their young talent, Phil Jones was never as bad as he is now - and I think his goose is cooked. Edited June 27, 2014 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Poor Tom Cleverley, slated by fans who slate him without ever really understanding why they are slating him. "Where's that petition - let me sign it... no lets boo him aswell - how dare he be the next Paul Scholes, give me Xavi, iniesta, actually that Barkley looks good, lets get him in and destroy his confidence!!!" I suppose Paul Pogba understands how Cleverley feels, he's laughing his head off now aint he. I would get Welbeck and Cleverley, both players need to be at a club where there isn't some ridiculous expectation on them. United are destroying all their young talent, Phil Jones was never as bad as he is now - and I think his goose is cooked. Whenever someone doesn't like a player you rate it doesn't half come across like you saying they know nothing about football because of that! You're not the only one who watches the game you know . Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Whenever someone doesn't like a player you rate it doesn't half come across like you saying they know nothing about football because of that! You're not the only one who watches the game you know . I could actually say likewise to be honest Mark. Gareth Barry cough cough :wind up: I don't get all the OTT slating of players based on reputation - because lets be honest its very common. Yes, I do not get Lukaku - but my opinions are based on watching him closely in an Everton shirt over a period of games. Surely people have learned on this forum that from seeing players like Gibson, Barry etc come in and do a very good job on little expense versus their true value that some criticism is harsh and often "reputational" based to say the least. I feel really sorry for Cleverley, he is far better than people make him out to be, some lads will have cracked on less criticism. He has been given some disgraceful treatment and I really look forward to him proving people wrong. Along with Kone... another poor sod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I could actually say likewise to be honest Mark. Gareth Barry cough cough :wind up: I don't get all the OTT slating of players based on reputation - because lets be honest its very common. Yes, I do not get Lukaku - but my opinions are based on watching him closely in an Everton shirt over a period of games. Surely people have learned on this forum that from seeing players like Gibson, Barry etc come in and do a very good job on little expense versus their true value that some criticism is harsh and often "reputational" based to say the least. I feel really sorry for Cleverley, he is far better than people make him out to be, some lads will have cracked on less criticism. He has been given some disgraceful treatment and I really look forward to him proving people wrong. Along with Kone... another poor sod. I never made out that people who wanted Barry knew nothing about football, I just thought he was shite and was horrified at the thought of him coming here. So not even the same thing tbh. And that's what I'm talking about, the second part of your post - how do you know they're slating Cleverley based on reputation? I don't want him because of what I've seen of him, not because United fans don't like him. People do watch football, a lot of football, just like you. But people see different things when they watch football, that's a fact. You can sit next to someone at the game and see things in a completely different way. To just shit on someone's opinion and basically call them sheep just because they don't rate a player that you happen to rate is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I never made out that people who wanted Barry knew nothing about football, I just thought he was shite and was horrified at the thought of him coming here. So not even the same thing tbh. And that's what I'm talking about, the second part of your post - how do you know they're slating Cleverley based on reputation? I don't want him because of what I've seen of him, not because United fans don't like him. People do watch football, a lot of football, just like you. But people see different things when they watch football, that's a fact. You can sit next to someone at the game and see things in a completely different way. To just shit on someone's opinion and basically call them sheep just because they don't rate a player that you happen to rate is wrong. I think there is a big difference between a player who struggles mentally versus technically. If someone can tell me why Tom Cleverely is not a good midfielder then I will take the debate to them. All I see is "he's rubbish" no tangible reasons, so yeah thats why I will question how people arrive at that conclusion. For me he lacks confidence, its been beaten out of him. That can be repaired. Technically I think he is a very capable passer of the ball, has a great engine, not the strongest in the tackle but gets himself there, he has great tactical awareness, and can set the tempo and play 1-2 touch football - thats where he stands out, he gets play moving quick. He needs the players around him to compliment his style of play. He is a cog of a team not a "stand out player" - very similar in ways to McCarthy. He is a footballer that goes under the radar. open to debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I think there is a big difference between a player who struggles mentally versus technically. If someone can tell me why Tom Cleverely is not a good midfielder then I will take the debate to them. All I see is "he's rubbish" no tangible reasons, so yeah thats why I will question how people arrive at that conclusion. For me he lacks confidence, its been beaten out of him. That can be repaired. Technically I think he is a very capable passer of the ball, has a great engine, not the strongest in the tackle but gets himself there, he has great tactical awareness, and can set the tempo and play 1-2 touch football - thats where he stands out, he gets play moving quick. He needs the players around him to compliment his style of play. He is a cog of a team not a "stand out player" - very similar in ways to McCarthy. He is a footballer that goes under the radar. open to debate. I just don't see a player that does anything particularly well tbh. Everything is bang average in my eyes. I see a player that just floats through games and doesn't really contribute in any sense - defence or attack. It's funny you compare him to McCarthy because I love him! Maybe he will fit in better with our team, only time will tell (I do think we'll sign him). I'll not be happy the day he signs but I'll give him a clean slate once he's on that pitch for us because he'll be one of us then. BlueBlood81 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I just don't see a player that does anything particularly well tbh. Everything is bang average in my eyes. I see a player that just floats through games and doesn't really contribute in any sense - defence or attack. It's funny you compare him to McCarthy because I love him! Maybe he will fit in better with our team, only time will tell (I do think we'll sign him). I'll not be happy the day he signs but I'll give him a clean slate once he's on that pitch for us because he'll be one of us then. Thats fair enough, I think fans want to see more from him. I think Tom Cleverely is a curious case. I recall once someone making the point that he is far removed from the Stevie G all action hero - he would never influence a 3-0 comeback against AC Milan because him positional indiscipline wouldn't have allowed kaka all that space. I watched him after that and he is extremely simple - sometimes annoyingly but you get him. He would work well with Jimmy Mc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I just don't see a player that does anything particularly well tbh. Everything is bang average in my eyes. I see a player that just floats through games and doesn't really contribute in any sense - defence or attack. It's funny you compare him to McCarthy because I love him! Maybe he will fit in better with our team, only time will tell (I do think we'll sign him). I'll not be happy the day he signs but I'll give him a clean slate once he's on that pitch for us because he'll be one of us then. pretty much this for me will be fuckin ragin if it's 8m though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Thats fair enough, I think fans want to see more from him. I think Tom Cleverely is a curious case. I recall once someone making the point that he is far removed from the Stevie G all action hero - he would never influence a 3-0 comeback against AC Milan because him positional indiscipline wouldn't have allowed kaka all that space. I watched him after that and he is extremely simple - sometimes annoyingly but you get him. He would work well with Jimmy Mc Do we want another keep it simple player though Haf. I want danger, flair, defence splitting passes etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Do we want another keep it simple player though Haf. I want danger, flair, defence splitting passes etc. Thats Barkleys role in my opinion, the AMC infront of 2 solid, no nonsense DCMs sweeping up. Actually think Cleverly could do the box-to-box role very well Edited June 27, 2014 by Matt EFC-Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Thats Barkleys role in my opinion, the AMC infront of 2 solid, no nonsense DCMs sweeping up. Actually think Cleverly could do the box-to-box role very well We need more option and not be reliable on Barkley though. We need more players who can unlock defences rather than keep it simple in my opinion. Suppose we need a blend of two though. I really don't like the thought of spending £8M on Cleverly though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 We need more option and not be reliable on Barkley though. We need more players who can unlock defences rather than keep it simple in my opinion. Suppose we need a blend of two though. I really don't like the thought of spending £8M on Cleverly though Agree that 8m is a bit steep, but knowing us it will be on the drip and hopefully performance/achievement based. Barkley cant be our only outlet there for sure, but Im hoping Pienaar can move over to cover (where he would be best, especially if Baines moves to the CDM role like Lahm), Ossie is still an option there (its always been his best position) though by no means 1st or 2nd choice for back up now, Naismith is a good foil for a striker and creates space. I agree we could do with competition there, but think we have enough options for now, considering we have other priorities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Cleverley is a component player, along with McCarthy and Barkley he can instill a high tempo passing game, he keeps it ticking over. Stick him in a team where the team mates aren't of the same mindset and he will be a waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Cleverley I love you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Cleverly is an odd case because he did look like he was a decent player a couple of years back. I actually wouldnt really want him to play alongside McCarthy at this stage of his career because that is where he has looked average. I have seen him turn over the ball too often, get sloppy and cause his team problems. He doesnt really contribute enough from deeper, his movement is good and his work rate likewise but at this stage I dont think he has it between the ears to take on such responsibility. If we buy Cleverly, it has to be with an eye on having him further up the pitch and I think he could be Pienaar's long term replacement before moving more central once he is ready. Pienaar is an important player for us and in the way he keeps hold of possession and allows us to advance up the field and with Cleverly coming inside from the left I think he could do that well and probably better because I think he is a more clinical passer and probably a marginally better finisher (not saying much!). If Barkley does get injured then he could easily fill in further up the pitch too (much like Ossie did last season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 baines best position is left back forget midfield he won't cut it,already tried and failed. Tried when? He tried on the wing, they are on about central midfield as that's what Roberto was on about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I agree with that completely. Just that we haven't tried it. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) He's an odd one for me is the talent there and his confidence is shot or is he simply not as good as some had hoped. As much as United fans would like you to believe that Fergie had no flaws he did but the man knows a player and to state Cleverly as the best central midfielder in Britain even though that isn't the case he obviously has something there that he's seen on a close and daily basis.. I do think he's been used as a scape goat by many fickle United fans who seem to forget they've been found out and have been shit across the park look deeper into it stat wise and Valencia Jones Smalling and so on have all be piss poor as has Cleverly but to suggest as many of them have that he's a big factor in why they have been shit is laughable. A comparison of Cleverly and Henderson from the 2012/2013 season I know this season has been much better from Henderson and he's actually looked like justifying his price tag but he was slated to the nines by many as not being good enough that season and it's more to show how with a fresh start season and played right a player can improve. http://eplindex.com/31934/henderson-cleverley-player-stats-analysis.html I'd have him at the right price because I do have a feeling he could become a great player under a man like Martinez and is still young enough to add more to his game. Edited June 28, 2014 by EFC-Paul Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 http://www.sportinastorm.com/Premier-League/Everton/Toffees-eye-Clever-deal/X1Y31Z1774975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 http://www.sportinastorm.com/Premier-League/Everton/Toffees-eye-Clever-deal/X1Y31Z1774975 If they want more than £10m they must be crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 10m no chance. I want to sign him, but I wasnt sure about 8m (depending how it was paid) that said, it doesnt look the most reputable of sources, so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efc1111 Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I think we need to bear in mind that we managed last season with a small squad, but with the extra European games next season it will be important to have a deeper squad consisting of players who can all rotate in and out of the side as required. They can't all be 'stars' - we're not in that financial ballpark - but any of the likes of Cleverley, Rodwell, Moses, Caulker etc shouldn't cost a fortune and would all be capable of rotating in for certain games and not lowering the quality of the side. We need a couple of bodies like Cleverley - experience at this level but with the potential to improve - plus probably three who would improve our current squad like, say, Lukaku/Bony, Peresic, Tadic etc. If we can add a bright young bargain like Ziyech too, we'll be making the sort of progress with our recruitment that is needed this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I think we need to bear in mind that we managed last season with a small squad, but with the extra European games next season it will be important to have a deeper squad consisting of players who can all rotate in and out of the side as required. They can't all be 'stars' - we're not in that financial ballpark - but any of the likes of Cleverley, Rodwell, Moses, Caulker etc shouldn't cost a fortune and would all be capable of rotating in for certain games and not lowering the quality of the side. We need a couple of bodies like Cleverley - experience at this level but with the potential to improve - plus probably three who would improve our current squad like, say, Lukaku/Bony, Peresic, Tadic etc. If we can add a bright young bargain like Ziyech too, we'll be making the sort of progress with our recruitment that is needed this summer. I'd argue that Cleverley, Rodwell and Moses would lower the quality of the side tbh. Other than that, I agree. We do need to build a squad, but I wanted better squad players. Not world beaters obviously, because we can't afford to pay big fees for rotation players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Gonna be balanced here, cleverly would improve our squad and be a good player for us but ffs I thought £8m was pushing it especially with a year left, my pricing would be £5m with a few million in add ons. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efc1111 Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I'd argue that Cleverley, Rodwell and Moses would lower the quality of the side tbh. Other than that, I agree. We do need to build a squad, but I wanted better squad players. Not world beaters obviously, because we can't afford to pay big fees for rotation players. I know what you mean and it's impossible to speculate since the club is doing a great job of not giving a clue about what sort of funds we have to spend, but, in addition to the star signings we're all gagging for, the squad needs a few more options for rotation. Ideally we could chuck money around like Rodgers can every year, but this summer will have to be a mix of 'star' signings and others. Remember the groans last season when we saw Ossie in the starting line-up? I love the guy but he can't do 90 minutes and next season we need to be able to call on better options when we have injuries or three games in a Europa week. Reading what Roberto said about Cleverley, he could play in the Osman and Pienaar roles as well as deeper, and RM has worked with him before so should know what he's capable of. I agree that £8m is steep for a lad in the last year of his contract, but with the way transfer fees are inflating this summer last summer's £5m is probably £8m now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I know what you mean and it's impossible to speculate since the club is doing a great job of not giving a clue about what sort of funds we have to spend, but, in addition to the star signings we're all gagging for, the squad needs a few more options for rotation. Ideally we could chuck money around like Rodgers can every year, but this summer will have to be a mix of 'star' signings and others. Mate, you're preaching to the choir! I've said all along that we need squad players as well as big signings to improve the starting 11. It's just that I'm questioning the calibre of squad signings it looks like we're going to make. Rodwell, Moses, Cleverley, Traore... I don't see them as good enough even as rotation. There's a player in there with Rodwell but just how many games will we get out of him? He could very well be another Gibson, except he'll cost a considerable amount more. Moses, Cleverley and Traore I simply do not rate at all. As said about Cleverley; I'll give them all a chance when/if they're Everton players, but these sort of signings just aren't floating my boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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