Crystal Palace (H)

[marcopaulo]

Get out while you can mate..go support Chelsea or summat

[JimAMD]

 

 

I thought Bobby got it wrong today. We were just starting to gain some form and develop a bit of consistency over the last couple of games and then he goes and makes some major selection changes. Sure, we started the game well and could've easily had the 3 pts but for a Howard 'mare. Still, I feel that the inclusion of Atsu, Osman and Eto'o at the same time has ultimately backfired.

 

Can't agree more with you

[MikeO]

Just feel sick still.

 

Beyond any sort of reason that; incomprehensible how it happened. Twice.

[Newty82]

Get out while you can mate..go support Chelsea or summat

Haha...It seems the easier option sometimes!

 

Didn't see any of the game, so won't insult those who did by trying to surmise anything.

 

All I can do is look at the stats (not the be all and end all of a game I know!) and wonder what we are doing with 75% possession? I'm a massive fan of the way we play but it has to be effective. And Palace, 3 shots on target...3 goals?! Was that felt by those watching?!

 

I thought we would do this one. Even with changes. I thought there was more than enough in that starting 11 to get 3 points.

 

But I guess this weekend shows why the Premiership is THE No.1 league in the world....West ham 3 - Liverpool 1, Spurs 0 - WBA 1, Leicester 5 - Utd 3...and this.

 

It's going to be another tight run for most of the season.

[Newty82]

Just feel sick still.

 

Beyond any sort of reason that; incomprehensible how it happened. Twice.

Must have been bad if you are saying that!

[MikeO]

Must have been bad if you are saying that!

 

I'm seriously upbeat compared to my lad; got him on suicide watch tonight .

[Newty82]

 

I'm seriously upbeat compared to my lad; got him on suicide watch tonight .

Oh no!! Ha...tough one to swallow.

[bluenose1976]

9 goals conceded in two home games!

 

Our defense is terrible.

[Sideliner]

Everton my Everton i have never seen you as desperate as today -

sacrificed structure and paid the price -

Osman should never ever start a game for Everton again -

we need a proper creative midfielder to play behind striker(s) -

defenders should focus on defending and leave attacking mainly to midfielders and forwards -

our midfield is too weak to play with a back 3 -

tactically Martinez was totally outplayed today - poor substitutions -

if this is what playing in Europe is going to do to our game in the PL we are in for a hard season

[Keith B]

It seems like if you are an Everton opponent all you do is defend well then throw the ball into the box and wait for Everton's defense to make a stupid mistake. That's what Palace did today and it worked.

[Oztoffee]

I thought we would do this one. Even with changes. I thought there was more than enough in that starting 11 to get 3 points.

But I guess this weekend shows why the Premiership is THE No.1 league in the world....West ham 3 - Liverpool 1, Spurs 0 - WBA 1, Leicester 5 - Utd 3...and this.

It's going to be another tight run for most of the season.

 

Seems as though it was destined to be one of those weekends.....no excuses though, by and large we were crap. I honestly thought we played with more verve and determination at 1-3 than at any other time. It makes me wonder how much real effort is going into EVERY game and if not, why not?

Is there a smilie for shooting a large cannon- ball like object at the team sheet? Sure as hell should be!

I feel sick at the pretence of some team members. How in God's name do they stand up straight and not look sheepish when they pick up their meagre pay packets? They should at least offer to pay it to a deserving cause, because sure as eggs is eggs, they don't.

 

Rant over...................................................................................................................................................................................................for now!

Edited September 22, 2014 by Oztoffee

[Romey 1878]

I can't help but feel we got exactly what we deserved from this game; absolutely nothing.

 

We had complete control of the ball in the first half, and after taking the lead there were easily another 2 or 3 goals in that half for us if we wanted them. Palace were happy to sit back and ask us to break them down, even when they were behind there only plan was to wait for us to give the ball away and then try and do something. But, we played so slowly, backwards and sideways, there wasn't much risk of us ever going on to get those goals. I have no problem with slow build up play, but there has to be an effort to up the pace quickly in order to break down a side determined to stop us getting at their goal. We didn't do it, we barely tried, we were happy to just be one ahead and have the ball. But a one goal lead when you're as defensively porous like we've been is a dangerous game to play, and that's how it proved to be.

 

With Coleman being out I don't think Martinez should have made so many changes. Not having Coleman was a massive loss to how we go forward, so my thinking is that he should made minimal changes to the Wolfsburg line-up and system and made the major changes against Swansea in the cup. Another Martinez cock-up to add to the growing list this season.

 

We have massive problems and if Martinez and the players don't get it sorted there's a very real possibility this season will be a poor one (I'm not talking a relegation fight or anything that extreme). Our next two games bring the worrying scenario that we could have three defeats on the bounce, leaving confidence on the floor. For a side whose whole style of play relies on confidence that's not good.

[Bailey]

_{I cant help think a lot of the team selection stick regarding Martinez is quite a lot of aftertiming. Its ok saying we only have Swansea on Tues in Cup but the players wont have fully recovered to play 3 games in a week and some are better than dealing it than others. If those that played in the 2 games came out and were below par you would all be on here claiming he should have made changes.}

 

The fact is the team was good enough. We bullied them to start with, we took the lead and played comfortably. WTF Howard was doing I dont know. I have seen Stones and Distin blamed but you can clearly hear Howard call for it and he has to make it. So far from goal too and normally the defenders would have just dealt with it had he left them to it. The second goal is even worse. A keeper that cant even fecking catch! What can you do in those circumstances? Robles will be in against Swansea and he has a chance to put down a marker (not that I am expecting it!). It doesnt matter how much work you do on the training ground because we have individuals that are fucking up and its a mixture each game. Its the same with the Osman goal, if you lose the ball 30 yards out with the majority of the team ahead of the ball, you are going to concede a chance in the Premier League. Simple as that. We do a lot of good work in the game that it all gets undone by some really poor decisions being made by senior players. If this was a young lad coming into the team you could understand it a little but this is Osman, Howard, Jags, Barry, McCarthy, McGeady... All guys who should know much better.

 

Its frustrating as fuck. Yesterday was the ideal time to pick up 3 points with those around us struggling and the annoying part is that we should have done enough to do that.

[seve]

several weeks ago I was slated all around for daring to say we need a new keeper no one can defend him now if they do they are putting efc second. out of 5 league games he has cost us 3 of them, the first arsenal goal rolled 3 foot in front of him in the 6 yard box to the far post to be tapped in, you lot blamed coleman for not stopping the cross ossey for not chasing back, anyone but howard , Chelsea game through his legs after 1 min nowhere near the other 5 goals no help to the back 4. and then yesterday again its osseys fault don't make me laugh the game is about momentum after the first 2 goals we had none. when an outfield player makes a mistake howard is supposed to rectify it not compound it. over the ten or more years of watching the likes of southall. and martyn I don't remember them costing us more than 2 games in a career. its time to get rid and stop believing all the drivel the yanks and sky say. if he was secretary for defence we would all be talking German.

[gethinO]

several weeks ago I was slated all around for daring to say we need a new keeper no one can defend him now if they do they are putting efc second. out of 5 league games he has cost us 3 of them, the first arsenal goal rolled 3 foot in front of him in the 6 yard box to the far post to be tapped in, you lot blamed coleman for not stopping the cross ossey for not chasing back, anyone but howard , Chelsea game through his legs after 1 min nowhere near the other 5 goals no help to the back 4. and then yesterday again its osseys fault don't make me laugh the game is about momentum after the first 2 goals we had none. when an outfield player makes a mistake howard is supposed to rectify it not compound it. over the ten or more years of watching the likes of southall. and martyn I don't remember them costing us more than 2 games in a career. its time to get rid and stop believing all the drivel the yanks and sky say. if he was secretary for defence we would all be talking German.

He was at fault for both goals vs Palace, no doubt. I don't blame Stones or Distin as Howard gave them a shout which they then shielded the ball for him only to see him arrive that second slower and concede the penalty. You talk about getting rid, I don't think it's a position that needs spending yet. What I mean is, to improve on Howard you're gonna have to fork out millions because I believe he's one league below the top class keepers (Courtois, Neuer, Buffon, Lloris e.t.c) and for those you have to pay close to the Lukaku fee which we haven't got. I don't think Joel is good enough back up so the other option would be to buy a young, promising keeper and gradually introduce him to the 1st team. Howard has been a good keeper for us, and his mistakes happen rarely. He won us the game against Wolfsburg so it depends which way you look at it.

[Paddock]

, and his mistakes happen rarely. He won us the game against Wolfsburg so it depends which way you look at it.

His mistakes happen a LOT more than rarely mate.

[marcopaulo]

still livid

[Matt]

several weeks ago I was slated all around for daring to say we need a new keeper no one can defend him now if they do they are putting efc second. out of 5 league games he has cost us 3 of them, the first arsenal goal rolled 3 foot in front of him in the 6 yard box to the far post to be tapped in, you lot blamed coleman for not stopping the cross ossey for not chasing back, anyone but howard , Chelsea game through his legs after 1 min nowhere near the other 5 goals no help to the back 4. and then yesterday again its osseys fault don't make me laugh the game is about momentum after the first 2 goals we had none. when an outfield player makes a mistake howard is supposed to rectify it not compound it. over the ten or more years of watching the likes of southall. and martyn I don't remember them costing us more than 2 games in a career. its time to get rid and stop believing all the drivel the yanks and sky say. if he was secretary for defence we would all be talking German.

Funny how you didn't turn up after Howard set another record of saves in a competition last week

 

I'm not angry this time, I am absolutely bewildered. We were cruising and 1 mistake between 2 defenders and the keeper turned the entire team into headless chickens. It was surreal.

 

There are a lot of comments made here out of anger, which is understandable. But some of them are just plain fucking stupid.

 

Howard - another bad day in the office. Competition for his place is needed, but its not panic stations time.

 

Stones - I thought the lad, bar that one moment of naivety, had a good game with some excellent challenges and runs. God knows why he was taken off.

 

Jags - Starting to look a bit more like his old self, but still too panicky...

 

Distin - clearly coming back from a couple of games out and rusty.

 

Baines - for the most part very good.

 

Barry - I think my MOTM. He broke things up again very well and just looks so assured. Give him the captains armband now and get people to follow his example.

 

McCarthy - I think he was sold in the summer and we've got a clone in his place. Apart from physical appearance, there is nothing that reminds me of the player who impressed so much last year. Can't blame him for his mistake at RB, what the hell was Martinez thinking.

 

Ossie - for 30 mins he was running the show, until the whole team self-destructed following the penalty. I don't know why he was so far back for the 3rd... Wait, I do! Martinez moved our other CM to RB and got him to drop back.

 

Atsu - I said earlier, he reminds me of every winger I've seen; some brilliance, some frustration. The lad has got amazing pace and seems quite clever too. A couple bad decisions but considering thats his 1st performance in the EPL, I was impressed and want to see more of him.

 

Eto'o - I honestly forgot he was playing half the time, but that wasn't his fault since he got no service because of the support from the back.

 

Lukaku - Classy finish for the goal, but tired too quickly in the 2nd half, again because there was no service and he, like most of the attackers, were headless chickens.

 

Mirallas & Naismith... Their intelligence made such a difference but we fundamentally suffered because we sacrificed structure and discipline to get them on.

 

This isn't the first time this season that we've collapsed and I put it firmly on the shoulders of Martinez, his charm offensive is quickly wearing off. He needs to get us playing like the first 30mins but consistently (how many times have we heard that) or hire someone like Moyes who can get the discipline into his players.

[MC11]

Martinez nailed it in his interview after the game. Their first goal took the wind out of our sails and push it into theirs. They didn't even look half capable of hurting us before that. We absolutely dominated them. Howard cost is the game it's a simple as that. However it is very rare he'll have such a bad game. But that was up there with the worst.

[MC11]

Funny how you didn't turn up after Howard set another record of saves in a competition last week

 

I'm not angry this time, I am absolutely bewildered. We were cruising and 1 mistake between 2 defenders and the keeper turned the entire team into headless chickens. It was surreal.

 

There are a lot of comments made here out of anger, which is understandable. But some of them are just plain fucking stupid.

 

Howard - another bad day in the office. Competition for his place is needed, but its not panic stations time.

 

Stones - I thought the lad, bar that one moment of naivety, had a good game with some excellent challenges and runs. God knows why he was taken off.

 

Jags - Starting to look a bit more like his old self, but still too panicky...

 

Distin - clearly coming back from a couple of games out and rusty.

 

Baines - for the most part very good.

 

Barry - I think my MOTM. He broke things up again very well and just looks so assured. Give him the captains armband now and get people to follow his example.

 

McCarthy - I think he was sold in the summer and we've got a clone in his place. Apart from physical appearance, there is nothing that reminds me of the player who impressed so much last year. Can't blame him for his mistake at RB, what the hell was Martinez thinking.

 

Ossie - for 30 mins he was running the show, until the whole team self-destructed following the penalty. I don't know why he was so far back for the 3rd... Wait, I do! Martinez moved our other CM to RB and got him to drop back.

 

Atsu - I said earlier, he reminds me of every winger I've seen; some brilliance, some frustration. The lad has got amazing pace and seems quite clever too. A couple bad decisions but considering thats his 1st performance in the EPL, I was impressed and want to see more of him.

 

Eto'o - I honestly forgot he was playing half the time, but that wasn't his fault since he got no service because of the support from the back.

 

Lukaku - Classy finish for the goal, but tired too quickly in the 2nd half, again because there was no service and he, like most of the attackers, were headless chickens.

 

Mirallas & Naismith... Their intelligence made such a difference but we fundamentally suffered because we sacrificed structure and discipline to get them on.

 

This isn't the first time this season that we've collapsed and I put it firmly on the shoulders of Martinez, his charm offensive is quickly wearing off. He needs to get us playing like the first 30mins but consistently (how many times have we heard that) or hire someone like Moyes who can get the discipline into his players.

I'd also give Barry the armband. Jagielka needs dropping, his erratic behaviour is rubbing off on everyone else.

 

McCarthy seems to back off, back off, back off when players are running at him. Why? It's putting us under more pressure.

[Matt]

Martinez nailed it in his interview after the game. Their first goal took the wind out of our sails and push it into theirs. They didn't even look half capable of hurting us before that. We absolutely dominated them. Howard cost is the game it's a simple as that. However it is very rare he'll have such a bad game. But that was up there with the worst.

He needs to learn how to nail it during the game and make things change. It was clear before the end of the 1st half that the momentum had shifted, but we had to wait until we conceded a 2nd before he made changes

 

"It was very uncharacteristic of us to concede three goals with three errors, but even then the character was incredible and we almost managed to get something out of the game."

 

No Roberto, its become very characteristic of our team since pre-season. Stop making excuses.

[MC11]

He needs to learn how to nail it during the game and make things change. It was clear before the end of the 1st half that the momentum had shifted, but we had to wait until we conceded a 2nd before he made changes

 

 

No Roberto, its become very characteristic of our team since pre-season. Stop making excuses.

He needs to learn how to nail it during the game and make things change. It was clear before the end of the 1st half that the momentum had shifted, but we had to wait until we conceded a 2nd before he made changes

 

 

No Roberto, its become very characteristic of our team since pre-season. Stop making excuses.

See Matt, sometimes he needs to stop being so positive. There was very little positives to take from that. It was the type of game that the hair dryer should have came out in the dressing room. I doubt it did Edited September 22, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[Matt]

See Matt, sometimes he needs to stop being so positive. There was very little positives to take from that. It was the type of game that the hair dryer should have came out in the dressing room. I doubt it did

Never argued that point.

[seve]

record number of saves means nothing you really are raised on sky sound bites most saves in a world cup match absolute trash what was the result the only thing that matters when you get that you then go for style. according to sky we have never won the proper league only the old one. you praise him for doing his job so do I, but this is not a Sunday league pub teams the amount of mistakes

he constantly makes.at that level its unacceptable we finished 5th for gods sake despite his howlers of last season we could have got in the top 4. I think the whole back four is nervous and unable to perform because of what's behind them.

I also said in an earlier debate we needed a c/h and keeper. we could have afforded the likes of begovic Curtis Davis or dawson

instead of paying vast amount's for loan players like etoo it does not matter how many you score if the back door is always open.

[MC11]

I think you're overreacting on Howard. He hasn't been that bad. I do agree he had a shocker yesterday and he will be watched now. I'd have him over Robles (the real dodgy keeper) any day.

 

Eto'o isn't on loan he's our player.

[djsunyc]

our two major problems:

 

1. some really careless passes

2. stretches where defense is standing and watching

 

we have issues playing with a lead...

[chicagoblue]

Missed the game, but caught some text updates. Still in shock that we managed to lose this one and the manner of the loss is even more dumbfounding. How anyone, let alone a premier league manager can think that it's a reasonable strategy to start Leon Osman is beyond me. It's been painfully obvious to the most casual observer for at least the last 12 months that the man, while talented and valuable in certain scenarios, simply does not have the legs for 90 minutes.

 

Again, I've only seen the highlights, so grain of salt and all. One can accept Atsu's error. He's young, first PL game etc. The clangers from Osman and Howard though, well...

 

And how did Osman stay on when Stones came off, crazy. Oh well. On to the next one. Would like to see both Barry and McCarthy sat, but I'll go put those thoughts in the appropriate thread.

[seve]

I think you're overreacting on Howard. He hasn't been that bad. I do agree he had a shocker yesterday and he will be watched now. I'd have him over Robles (the real dodgy keeper) any day.

 

Eto'o isn't on loan he's our player.

I hear what you say about robles but we have nothing to loose we have got to try something else. I don't understand you when you say he has not been that bad beside the examples I gave you he should have been sent off 3 times against Chelsea its all right sticking up for your team mates its another when your getting hammered loosing your head and making it worse.no all his decision

making has gone out the window this season.

[Hafnia]

record number of saves means nothing you really are raised on sky sound bites most saves in a world cup match absolute trash what was the result the only thing that matters when you get that you then go for style. according to sky we have never won the proper league only the old one. you praise him for doing his job so do I, but this is not a Sunday league pub teams the amount of mistakes

he constantly makes.at that level its unacceptable we finished 5th for gods sake despite his howlers of last season we could have got in the top 4. I think the whole back four is nervous and unable to perform because of what's behind them.

I also said in an earlier debate we needed a c/h and keeper. we could have afforded the likes of begovic Curtis Davis or dawson

instead of paying vast amount's for loan players like etoo it does not matter how many you score if the back door is always open.

Hello Robles lad, apparently you will start tomorrow night, notice you weren't on here the other night.

 

Anything other than Howard you want to talk about?

[Brett Angel]

Hello Robles lad, apparently you will start tomorrow night, notice you weren't on here the other night.

 

Anything other than Howard you want to talk about?

Harsh!!! Then again it's ok if it's lukaku hey haf. the lad wouldn't say anything on Thursday cause Tim had a good game. That's common sense.

The simple fact is you get keepers like begovic, villas keeper, krul.... These keepers save teams but very rarely have Eratic moments.