c1982 Posted May 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 26 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: not sure why people want to sell him, he's our starting LCB for me. better than keane. have him and jags and rotate in holgate. keane to be used in case of emergency. We’re in trouble if we don’t invest in starting cbs next season. I’d sell Mori and Williams (and Keane if we could get our money back) and start again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted May 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bailey said: I like my centre backs to be composed and in control and he is neither. I don't think he is a bad player but at the same time I have never been convinced. He’s far too erratic in my opinion. I do agree that he’s a decent enough player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 1 minute ago, c1982 said: He’s far too erratic in my opinion. I do agree that he’s a decent enough player. Yeh he could do 10 things in a game, 6 would be exactly what we want (aggressive, physical etc), 2 would be solid enough, 1 would be a 'he got away with that' and then the last 1 would be a total fuck up. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bailey said: Yeh he could do 10 things in a game, 6 would be exactly what we want (aggressive, physical etc), 2 would be solid enough, 1 would be a 'he got away with that' and then the last 1 would be a total fuck up. Agree with Bailey here. When he was playing before his injury, most people wanted him replaced as he wasn’t deemed good enough for us. Weve been that bad recently that people have forgot, or they simply rate him better than what we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 Has everything in his bag to be a great player. He just never brings the same bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted May 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, StevO said: Has everything in his bag to be a great player. He just never brings the same bag. Same could be said about Besic too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 i don't think he's ever played a full season with us to even see what he can do. had martinez then he was canned, then koeman and injured, and now back for a little. give him time i think he will be solid. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 9 hours ago, c1982 said: Same could be said about Besic too. I wish i knew where to get the stats for that game last night, he must have had more passes, more touches and covered more ground than any other player on the pitch. somebody said that in the previous game he was just trotting about, well he was again last night but he was trotting about to make himself available for the ball. He turned up in defence he was a right winger, left winger and even chasing down the goalie at one stage. I thought he had a great game and would have him above any of our mids at the moment. I hope the new manager gives him a chance. Shukes and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Bill said: I wish i knew where to get the stats for that game last night, he must have had more passes, more touches and covered more ground than any other player on the pitch. somebody said that in the previous game he was just trotting about, well he was again last night but he was trotting about to make himself available for the ball. He turned up in defence he was a right winger, left winger and even chasing down the goalie at one stage. I thought he had a great game and would have him above any of our mids at the moment. I hope the new manager gives him a chance. I only saw the second half but thought he looked dodgy as fuck, with a complete lack of concentration at key times. I'm a fan of him as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 11 hours ago, c1982 said: Same could be said about Besic too. Haha I often do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 12 hours ago, StevO said: Has everything in his bag to be a great player. He just never brings the same bag. That is a great way to put it! 3 hours ago, Bill said: I wish i knew where to get the stats for that game last night, he must have had more passes, more touches and covered more ground than any other player on the pitch. somebody said that in the previous game he was just trotting about, well he was again last night but he was trotting about to make himself available for the ball. He turned up in defence he was a right winger, left winger and even chasing down the goalie at one stage. I thought he had a great game and would have him above any of our mids at the moment. I hope the new manager gives him a chance. I watched the game and he was piss poor again. Couple of nice passes here and there, certainly not devoid of ability, but he tried a stupid flick in the first half that went to the opposition when they had good pitch position and numbers, straight after that he gave the ball away on the edge of his 18 yard box and after that Villa broke down his side and he jogged after them. When one of his team mates held him up, if Besic had sprinted back into position (not like it' the biggest game of his season or anything) then he would have been in position to stop him but instead the defender had to foul the attacker to stop the run as they were getting exposed. Shortly after that he took on a shot with his left foot from outside the box when others were in better positions. Another example was him trying to take a man on 1 v 1 (unsuccessfully but still retaining the ball) with Pulis screaming at him to get the ball wide (as again they had numbers and the delay was allowing Villa to reorganise). He is a very selfish player, which I never really realised and he wants the glory of the winning goal, run, tackle and not what the team needs of getting in position or moving the ball quickly. He is a show pony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 So many different views on the same player, strange how people see things differently. Still love to see the stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted May 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Bill said: So many different views on the same player, strange how people see things differently. Still love to see the stats. This site (first I found) has him down as one of the worst performers... https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1278723/LiveStatistics/England-Championship-2017-2018-Aston-Villa-Middlesbrough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 He wasn't the best according to those stats, but they certainly don't show him as one of the worst. I,m surprised and as I said so many people with a completely different view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bill said: He wasn't the best according to those stats, but they certainly don't show him as one of the worst. I,m surprised and as I said so many people with a completely different view. the boro fans seems to rate him as well bill, you're not the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidharper Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bill said: He wasn't the best according to those stats, but they certainly don't show him as one of the worst. I,m surprised and as I said so many people with a completely different view. Also think a little credit has to goto villa/Steve Bruce. Watched a little bit of both legs and it seems like they got their tactics right. Just tried to stop Boro's gameplan / players and then nicked it with 1 goal in the first leg. Pulis isn'tt known for his attacking play or having a plan b - z. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 Just now, plaidharper said: Also think a little credit has to goto villa/Steve Bruce. Watched a little bit of both legs and it seems like they got their tactics right. Just tried to stop Boro's gameplan / players and then nicked it with 1 goal in the first leg. Pulis isn'ttt known for his attacking play or having a plan b - z. boro had 0 shots on goal in the second leg. strange since they were 1-0 down but that's pulis ball for you plaidharper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidharper Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 Just now, markjazzbassist said: boro had 0 shots on goal in the second leg. strange since they were 1-0 down but that's pulis ball for you Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: boro had 0 shots on goal in the second leg. strange since they were 1-0 down but that's pulis ball for you You can't lose 2-0 on aggregate if you don't concede again markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 Downing hit the crossbar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 Just now, Bill said: Downing hit the crossbar. sorry bill, just read that in the match report, the site i read must have been wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 32 minutes ago, c1982 said: This site (first I found) has him down as one of the worst performers... https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1278723/LiveStatistics/England-Championship-2017-2018-Aston-Villa-Middlesbrough Actually it shows him as the 3rd highest pass percentage in the team. Joint first with key passes and also a shot to go along with them. Edit: it would also put him 3rd highest pass percentage if he was playing for the team that won! Hardly the worst performer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted May 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 55 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: boro had 0 shots on goal in the second leg. strange since they were 1-0 down but that's pulis ball for you 51 minutes ago, Bill said: Downing hit the crossbar. 51 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: sorry bill, just read that in the match report, the site i read must have been wrong. Crossbar isn’t on target so the site was correct. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted May 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 40 minutes ago, Shukes said: Actually it shows him as the 3rd highest pass percentage in the team. Joint first with key passes and also a shot to go along with them. Edit: it would also put him 3rd highest pass percentage if he was playing for the team that won! Hardly the worst performer. The player ratings they give make him one of the worst. I actually think he’s been decent for Boro but he didn’t do a lot in either play-off game in my opinion nor has he done much to convince me in an EFC shirt. I wouldn’t be disappointed if we kept him should our next manager see something he likes but I also wouldn’t lose any sleep should he be moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 37 minutes ago, c1982 said: Crossbar isn’t on target so the site was correct. MJB said 0 shots, nothing about shots on target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: MJB said 0 shots, nothing about shots on target. I said shots on goal meant shots on target. English what a language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: I said shots on goal meant shots on target. English what a language Saying 0 shots on goal really does imply that they didn’t even have an attempt. You really must work on your use of language skills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 59 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: Saying 0 shots on goal really does imply that they didn’t even have an attempt. You really must work on your use of language skills shot on goal, shot on target same thing. skying the ball over the bar is considered a shot, neither on goal nor target (didn't go near either). capisce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: shot on goal, shot on target same thing. skying the ball over the bar is considered a shot, neither on goal nor target (didn't go near either). capisce? Well they’re not the same thing though, are they? A shot on goal would include both shots that were on target and those that weren’t on target. Saying just shot on target would only be shots on target, obviously. So by saying 0 shots you are actually saying that they didn’t have a single shot at goal, off target or on target. It’s ok, English is hard, so I’ll let you off on this occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: Well they’re not the same thing though, are they? A shot on goal would include both shots that were on target and those that weren’t on target. Saying just shot on target would only be shots on target, obviously. So by saying 0 shots you are actually saying that they didn’t have a single shot at goal, off target or on target. It’s ok, English is hard, so I’ll let you off on this occasion. i speak 'merican romey, miller lite and nascar, not sure what this english bullshit is mikeO has a drinking waiting for you in the pedant lounge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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