Manchester City (Home)

[Paddock]

Oh I do love my big wooden spoon

That's why there was no nibble on the original post

[Cornish Steve]

You have said yourself you follow Martinez not Everton. You can have whatever views you want but anyone who would rather see us lose and it be an entertaining game than draw and it be dull doesn't truely support the tram.

 

I don't understand how you can be happy to get beat as long as you have enjoyed the game, it makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

I shall take the hook, if only to make clear what I've said before and not have words wrongly put in my mouth. Apologies to others reading the thread for this short digression. Here's what I wrote when introducing myself over two years ago.

 

 

Better late than never! I've been posting away for a couple of weeks but never thought to write an introduction.

 

My name is Steve. I'm originally from Cornwall (please never call me English!) and moved the US almost 30 years ago. As a child, I mostly supported Spurs, but I do remember many players from the Everton team during Harry Catterick's time as manager. In particular, I still remember Morrissey's long throw-ins during the FA Cup final against WBA.

 

Living in the US, I lost touch with English football for a while but did coach all six of my children as they played "soccer" locally. My oldest son was quite talented, becoming the leading scorer in the Georgia high school league in which he played and later captain of his university team as they made it to the national finals for the first time. Traveling home from one international business trip, I met him at Manchester airport, and we watched Liverpool play at Anfield. He remains a keen Liverpool fan (God bless his cotton socks).

 

In recent years, I've again followed English football more closely and became enamored with Wigan's style of play. Roberto Martinez is an occasional commentator in the US, and I found his analysis of games to be excellent - far better than the comments of others. During the last World Cup, in particular, he was by far the most credible commentator and always saw (and predicted correctly) the tactical strengths and weaknesses of each team. So, in truth, it wasn't Wigan I was supporting as much as it was Martinez. Now that he's been appointed manager of Everton, I'm learning all about the Blues and intend to follow them.

 

Undoubtedly, some will claim I am fickle for switching teams, but I don't see it that way. There are certain teams (like Barcelona) that you just can't help but admire. For me, despite their very limited resources, Wigan was a team to admire. They played very attractive football and were simply unlucky with the defensive injuries that cost them relegation. I won't forget their victories last year over ManU, Arsenal, and especially Newcastle. Indeed, their victory over Newcastle was one of the most impressive and convincing wins I've seen in years - and it was all because of Martinez. (This year's FA Cup quarterfinal victory over Everton was pretty good too, and I was very impressed with the Everton fans who applauded Wigan's performance at the end of the game.)

 

So, here I am on ToffeeTalk, and thanks for the welcome you've given me to date. As you can see from my posts, I am very excited about the Martinez era at Everton. It may take a year or two to establish a more attacking and passing philosophy, but I can see a revolution happening here. We assume that money is always needed to win the league, but it's simply not true. I remember how Notts Forest were promoted in third place, next year won the (then) First Division, and then won the European Cup two years in succession. I can see the same incredible progress being made at Everton. The skills are here, the desire is here, and now the manager is here. He's already defined his BHAG, and now he will achieve it. Am I being unduly optimistic? Maybe. On the other hand, it's truly exciting to anticipate what Everton and Martinez might do together in the coming months and years.

 

Do you get that? Let me repeat, "I'm learning all about the Blues and intend to follow them. Undoubtedly, some will claim I am fickle for switching teams, but I don't see it that way." Clearly, two years is not long enough for you to accept that. So be it.

 

And all credit to MC for remembering that, in my childhood years, I used to support Spurs. "Nice one, Cyril" and all that.

 

For the record, my oldest son has since switched from red to blue - and posts on here from time to time. I won't give away his username.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Cornish Steve

[MikeO]

 

For the record, my oldest son has since switched from red to blue - and posts on here from time to time. I won't give away his username.

 

That's a puzzler! Detective work needed (unless he slips "I agree with dad" in a post) .

[MC11]

 

I shall take the hook, if only to make clear what I've said before and not have words wrongly put in my mouth. Apologies to others reading the thread for this short digression. Here's what I wrote when introducing myself over two years ago.

 

 

 

Do you get that? Let me repeat, "I'm learning all about the Blues and intend to follow them. Undoubtedly, some will claim I am fickle for switching teams, but I don't see it that way." Clearly, two years is not long enough for you to accept that. So be it.

 

And all credit to MC for remembering that, in my childhood years, I used to support Spurs. "Nice one, Cyril" and all that.

 

For the record, my oldest son has since switched from red to blue - and posts on here from time to time. I won't give away his username.

Hmmm is it "Turncoat Steve Jnr" by any chance?

[MC11]

Must refrain from posting that name!

Edited August 19, 2015 by MC11

[MC11]

Check the kopite thread

[Finn balor]

Anyway........

 

I hope Bobby has got his zest back and goes for it. Fuck them let's have it. 2-1 rom and jags winner

[Cornish Steve]

Hmmm is it "Turncoat Steve Jnr" by any chance?

 

Why did you have to give it away?

[Cornish Steve]

 

That's a puzzler! Detective work needed (unless he slips "I agree with dad" in a post) .

 

It'll more likely be "I disagree with dad."

[Matt]

And this highlights more than anything that you don't support Everton if you would sooner us lose than draw. Us not losing is the minimum we want yet you just want an entertaining game so aren't really arsed about us as long as you get entertained.

 

Why don't you just join a premier league forum instead of posting shite like that. We lost but hey it's ok I was entertained instead of we got a hard earned 0-0 against one of the best teams in the country , stay unbeaten keep the momentum going and have 5 from 9 .

To be honest, I'd rather see us lose 6-5 than draw 0-0, on the condition that we played well. Football is more than about just the points.

 

As for the "you don't support Everton" jibe (there are a few people responsible here), it pisses me off every time and is completely out of line. Steve has been with us for 2 years and contributes more than most to the site. He's not here for the good of his health, he's here to talk and debate about Everton. If he's talking and debating about Everton, he has an innate interest in our club. Isn't that what a fan is?

[Paddock]

To be honest, I'd rather see us lose 6-5 than draw 0-0, on the condition that we played well. Football is more than about just the points.

 

As for the "you don't support Everton" jibe (there are a few people responsible here), it pisses me off every time and is completely out of line. Steve has been with us for 2 years and contributes more than most to the site. He's not here for the good of his health, he's here to talk and debate about Everton. If he's talking and debating about Everton, he has an innate interest in our club. Isn't that what a fan is?

And I'm entitled to my opinion just as much as he is and if you would rather us lose than draw I say the same about you. How can you be happy losing Matt. So it's ok to get relegated then as ling as the football we play is good and exciting?

 

It's a ridiculous statement to make and I stand by what I said. Any true fan of any football club (not just us) would never want their team to lose no matter what. By your way of thinking you would sooner see a good game of football than us get a point in a dull game, if that's the case why even support a team you may as well just support the premier league because if alls you care about is being entertained.. I moaned like fuck about some of our performances last season saying it was dull and boring wtc but never in a million years would I of been happier if we had lost to Hull, West Brom and the likes at home in an exciting 4-3 game. By your way of thinking we would be relegated before long.

 

It makes no sense to me, I think it's strange. Maybe it's me that's the strange one here and I'm in the minority but I am never happy if we lose regardless of how we play.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Paddock

[MC11]

Calm down Matt it's only a bit of Bantz, Steve can dish it out himself.

[Matt]

And I'm entitled to my opinion just as much as he is and if you would rather us lose than draw I say the same about you. How can you be happy losing Matt. So it's ok to get relegated then as ling as the football we play is good and exciting?

 

It's a ridiculous statement to make and I stand by what I said. Any true fan of any football club (not just us) would never want their team to lose no matter what. By your way of thinking you would sooner see a good game of football than us get a point in a dull game, if that's the case why even support a team you may as well just support the premier league because if alls you care about is being entertained.. I moaned like fuck about some of our performances last season saying it was dull and boring wtc but never in a million years would I of been happier if we had lost to Hull, West Brom and the likes at home in an exciting 4-3 game. By your way of thinking we would be relegated before long.

 

It makes no sense to me, I think it's strange. Maybe it's me that's the strange one here and I'm in the minority but I am never happy if we lose regardless of how we play.

I've made no comment on you being allowed an opinion or not

 

If I just wanted to look at the table for points, I would agree. I hate losing, really detest it to the extent that it will ruin my weekend. But if we lose and play really well, I can accept that. If we drag out a 0-0 draw, we get a point sure but it's can be more depressing than a loss. That said, I don't want to see us lose every week, which is maybe what you're thinking; why would they want to see us lose all the time? Of course no fan wants that, ask Blackpool! Exciting football, but where are they now?

 

In the context of this game, i.e. Man City, I would rather see us play an exciting game that shows we can damage the potential title contenders than shut up shop and skulk a draw like a Stoke, Wham, etc. I want us to show the ambition of beating the rich kids, get in their faces, give them hell. I sure as shit don't want us to go to them and play for a point. If we ever want to be up the top again, we need to have the confidence to attack the teams higher up the table, and risk that all or nothing points gain.

 

I can't just support the league, I support Everton. I don't have a fucking choice.

[Paddock]

I've made no comment on you being allowed an opinion or not

 

If I just wanted to look at the table for points, I would agree. I hate losing, really detest it to the extent that it will ruin my weekend. But if we lose and play really well, I can accept that. If we drag out a 0-0 draw, we get a point sure but it's can be more depressing than a loss. That said, I don't want to see us lose every week, which is maybe what you're thinking; why would they want to see us lose all the time? Of course no fan wants that, ask Blackpool! Exciting football, but where are they now?

 

In the context of this game, i.e. Man City, I would rather see us play an exciting game that shows we can damage the potential title contenders than shut up shop and skulk a draw like a Stoke, Wham, etc. I want us to show the ambition of beating the rich kids, get in their faces, give them hell. I sure as shit don't want us to go to them and play for a point. If we ever want to be up the top again, we need to have the confidence to attack the teams higher up the table, and risk that all or nothing points gain.

 

I can't just support the league, I support Everton. I don't have a fucking choice.

It's not just about one game though is it it's about a whole season. We go toe to toe against a team much better than us we'll get twatted. We tried to do it to Arsenal a few times under Moyes and got absolutely hammered 7-0 and 6-1 . We have to do what we have to do to get as many points on the board. You say football isn't just about points? I beg to differ because at the end of the season they are all that matter, they are what dictates a good or bad season. We should be looking at getting draws or sneaking a win against the Citys, Chelseas etc, a win possibly at home and a point away and beating the lesser teams and those similar to us. We have to eek every point out whatever way we can, unfortunately it's not just about entertaining you or I or anyone else it's about winning football matches.

 

I may be misreading what you're saying here but I would be a lot happier with a 0-0 on Sunday and a point than with a Chelsea type 6-3 drubbing or 4-3 loss because on paper that's a point more than we can realistically look at getting this season. I'd sooner draw our next 3 than win one and lose 2 as our goal difference would be better and we would remain unbeaten. Losing is bad for moral and confidence 3 draws against City, Spurs away and Liverpool will show the players they can match them, I don't care how we get them as long as we do.

[Hafnia]

Interesting - emotionally/psychologically there are a few things going on here:-

 

There is the element of the "supporter hierachy" I think it goes along these lines...

1st place:- Season ticket holder - go to all away games and european games

2nd place:- Season ticket holder - go to the odd away game and odd european game

3rd place:- Season ticket holder - watch away games on internet/pub

4th place:- Go to a game when they can and try and at least watch a game

 

and so on and so forth...

 

I've been in most levels bar the first, and my love for the club is no different at any stage of my level of match participation.

 

My opinions over the years have changed - one of the opinions that I hold strongly is that the fans in the top end hierarchy have no further strength in opinion or right than anyones else, so this whole "you can't think this or think that" is a whole load of nonsense (feel free to think differently!)

 

As for the whole 6-5 debate - i'm pretty sure most Newcastle fans whilst feeling shattered after the collymore last gasp winner would remember that game the same as liverpool fans remember the classic 4-4 cup game. That's what football is all about. I tend to think this win ugly at 1-0 is a little faux super supporter if i'm honest.

[Matt]

It's not just about one game though is it it's about a whole season. We go toe to toe against a team much better than us we'll get twatted. We tried to do it to Arsenal a few times under Moyes and got absolutely hammered 7-0 and 6-1 . We have to do what we have to do to get as many points on the board. You say football isn't just about points? I beg to differ because at the end of the season they are all that matter, they are what dictates a good or bad season. We should be looking at getting draws or sneaking a win against the Citys, Chelseas etc, a win possibly at home and a point away and beating the lesser teams and those similar to us. We have to eek every point out whatever way we can, unfortunately it's not just about entertaining you or I or anyone else it's about winning football matches.

 

I may be misreading what you're saying here but I would be a lot happier with a 0-0 on Sunday and a point than with a Chelsea type 6-3 drubbing or 4-3 loss because on paper that's a point more than we can realistically look at getting this season. I'd sooner draw our next 3 than win one and lose 2 as our goal difference would be better and we would remain unbeaten. Losing is bad for moral and confidence 3 draws against City, Spurs away and Liverpool will show the players they can match them, I don't care how we get them as long as we do.

Arsenal 3-0, Man United 3-0, City most of the time under Moyes.... It can happen and when it does it's because we go at them.

 

I was only talking about this game because I thought it was apparent that no one in their right mind would be happy to see us lose 6-5 every week! Also, it's in the Man City thread...

 

I say football isn't just about points. I'm saying that if we go and give them a bloody good game and miss out but do a lot of damage, I would be happier that sitting back and playing for a draw. Ambition starts by trying to win. If at the end of the season, 1 point sends us down I won't look at this game either. I will look at the following 35 games and be fuming.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Matt

[pete0]

I was at the 1 zip Man U game in 2005 and at the one they beat us last min 3-4 the season before. As a neutral the latter is probs more entertaining, but the 1-0 was the best atmosphere I've ever experienced. The 7-1 against Sunderland got a bit boring. Ultimately you need a balance, Mourinho is a little too restrictive to go for a rout, but is great at the 1-0 and the Chelsea fans are bored, but they are a lot happier than say Blackpool's fans after their flash in the pan.

[Cornish Steve]

In the context of this game, i.e. Man City

 

That's the key point. Of course, no one wants to lose exciting games about teams near the bottom, and no one has suggested that. But when playing City this weekend, I say go for it.

 

It's why, incidentally, the league changed years ago from 2 points for a win to 3 points, because too many teams simply played for a point and were making football as exciting as watching grass grow. Now, teams that go for it and win every other game secure more points than teams that park the bus every week for a single point.

[Cornish Steve]

We should be looking at getting draws or sneaking a win against the Citys, Chelseas etc,

 

Nope. We should be demolishing them, just as we did United last year. You don't make it to the top except by believing you deserve to be there and can outplay every team in the league.

[EFC-Paul]

Only two games in but I would put money on them being the team to beat this season

 

I think we will give them a tougher game then most would expect

 

2:2

[Finn balor]

I think if we get 3 points we will be a top team this year. Confidence breeds confidence and if we beat them we go to Spurs with a swagger

[markjazzbassist]

I think if we get 3 points we will be a top team this year. Confidence breeds confidence and if we beat them we go to Spurs with a swagger

 

regardless of man city result i think we can give spurs a real match this year. they don't look special and haven't started great.

[markjazzbassist]

http://www.espnfc.us/blog/tactics-and-analysis/67/post/2572349/everton-counterattack-could-hurt-man-city-writes-michael-cox

[Romey 1878]

I worry about Galloway getting exposed in this one tbh. Whoever plays on the left with him must help out as much as possible.

[Matt]

I worry about Galloway getting exposed in this one tbh. Whoever plays on the left with him must help out as much as possible.

I think he'll be ok. Put Mirallas in front of him and let him be a defender rather than an attacking fullback.

[marcopaulo]

I worry about Galloway getting exposed in this one tbh. Whoever plays on the left with him must help out as much as possible.

Probably navas I assume against him? Don't really rate him that much myself..and Mirallas could tear sagna a new one and make navas sit back

 

 

More worried about people backing off silva myself..The way he has started

Edited August 21, 2015 by marcopaulo

[Matt]

Probably navas I assume against him? Don't really rate him that much myself..and Mirallas could tear sagna a new one and make navas sit back

 

 

More worried about people backing off silva myself..The way he has started

I'd just have McCarthy mark him out of the game.

[marcopaulo]

That would be fine as long as McCarthy doesn't have one of his stand off days

[milesey05]

Just been on their Blue moon Forum to see how they think the game will pan out.

 

What a bunch of pricks most of them are. This game is apparently our cup final.

 

I hope we fuck them sideways on Sunday and the proper Everton turn up.

[Gwlad]

Underdogs win Cup finals