Oumar Niasse

[nogs]

What struck me against Palace, and admittedly I only saw highlights, was how is prepared to run with the ball and attack defenders. It shits them up. People can say the penalty was soft but Dann stepped into him because he knew Niasse was past him. He is making things happen in front of goal, I think he's getting far, far less credit than he deserves. 

[Matt]

18 hours ago, hafnia said:

fair play.  You have taken your criteria for assessing/praising Lukaku and ported it over to Niasse - you always said that for you Lukaku scores goals and on the basis of that alone he got your support.  That's cool - my criteria was more complex and demanding...

Lukaku was a legend before he was a footballer - he was automatically propelled into a supposed elite level/potential superstar bracket before he had scored his first premier league goal.  That kind of profile tends to stick around and his goal record has supported the hype to be fair.

Take away the goals from either player and you are left with 2 footballers of very mediocre ability.  One is a big unit who is a gifted athlete who doesn't really break a sweat for his team mates, with a questionable attitude - the other is a ridiculously hard working player with a great attitude. 

This is where I have massive respect for Niasse - he isn't as gifted as a finisher as lukaku, he knows he's not a great player but you know what - his finishing isn't bad at all. 

Crazy as it sounds - Lukaku would love to play alongside this lad.

 

Goals win games, it’s the strikers main role to get them; it’s always been that simple for me. If the rest of the team would do their job, we wouldn’t be in this mess and might well have won a few things. 

[Paddock]

8 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Then I would claim we don't need "a quality striker that scores goals". Right now, we just need "a striker that scores goals", and we've found one.

He’s scored a few goals- we need a regular 20 goal a season striker- all top sides have them- he isn’t a 20 goal a season striker end of conversation.

[nogs]

13 minutes ago, Paddock said:

He’s scored a few goals- we need a regular 20 goal a season striker- all top sides have them- he isn’t a 20 goal a season striker end of conversation.

We're a million miles away from being a top side. I'm fed up now of Lukaku being used as an excuse for this season, especially in the media. I think CB and, insanely considering how many players we have who play there, CM are much bigger problems for us. 

[Paddock]

25 minutes ago, nogs said:

We're a million miles away from being a top side. I'm fed up now of Lukaku being used as an excuse for this season, especially in the media. I think CB and, insanely considering how many players we have who play there, CM are much bigger problems for us. 

I’m not arguing over the rest of the team but are you saying you’d be hapy to go from now to the end of the season with Niasse upfront?

[Matt]

Just now, Paddock said:

I’m not arguing over the rest of the team but are you saying you’d be hapy to go from now to the end of the season with Niasse upfront?

If he continues to score and be a pain in the arse for the opposition defence, then yes. But I'd still hope for another striker to be brought in

[Paddock]

Just now, Matt said:

If he continues to score and be a pain in the arse for the opposition defence, then yes. But I'd still hope for another striker to be brought in

Then the chances are we will be relegated Matt- I fail tosee how people think he’s good enough to score the goals we will need as Nogs has pointed out- nobody else is chipping in are they- yes he’s scored a few- one with his arse, a couple against Bournemouth and one at Palace- he doesn’t get a kick when we play a decent team- for fucks sake have we fallen this far to be accepting a player who is clearly shite because he’s scored a few goals against relegation fodder who can’t control a ball and just runs?? It’s not his fault by the way- the lads playing his heart out for us and I love him for that but he’s not good enough and I honestly wish he was- he’s an impact sub at best.

I give up I really really do- no wonder we’re fucked as a club.

[nogs]

9 minutes ago, Paddock said:

I’m not arguing over the rest of the team but are you saying you’d be hapy to go from now to the end of the season with Niasse upfront?

It isn't just him though. Rooney has scored a few, I hope DCL will become more clinical. You could argue that between them they're on track to replace Lukaku's goals. Yes I want a striker in January, but it depends who is available. I would be far more concerned for the rest of the season if we spent our budget on a striker and left CB unresolved. Every single player who has played CB and DM this season has made costly individual errors - that is far more likely to see us relegated than playing Niasse. So yes, we have fallen a long way in a short space of time, but that's where we are, it's about priorities now. 

[Matt]

9 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Then the chances are we will be relegated Matt- I fail tosee how people think he’s good enough to score the goals we will need as Nogs has pointed out- nobody else is chipping in are they- yes he’s scored a few- one with his arse, a couple against Bournemouth and one at Palace- he doesn’t get a kick when we play a decent team- for fucks sake have we fallen this far to be accepting a player who is clearly shite because he’s scored a few goals against relegation fodder who can’t control a ball and just runs?? It’s not his fault by the way- the lads playing his heart out for us and I love him for that but he’s not good enough and I honestly wish he was- he’s an impact sub at best.

I give up I really really do- no wonder we’re fucked as a club.

If he's working hard and scoring goals, it wouldn't be down to him if that happened. 

[Paddock]

7 minutes ago, nogs said:

It isn't just him though. Rooney has scored a few, I hope DCL will become more clinical. You could argue that between them they're on track to replace Lukaku's goals. Yes I want a striker in January, but it depends who is available. I would be far more concerned for the rest of the season if we spent our budget on a striker and left CB unresolved. Every single player who has played CB and DM this season has made costly individual errors - that is far more likely to see us relegated than playing Niasse. So yes, we have fallen a long way in a short space of time, but that's where we are, it's about priorities now. 

If we can get in a new cb get Coleman back and Bolasie and bring in a new striker we will be much improved- by some miracle we may have Barkley as well but ai doubt it - once those players are back we need to buy a striker and a cb who can play left full back and I think we’ll see a dramatic upturn in performances but we have to get a quality cb and striker in.

[nogs]

39 minutes ago, Paddock said:

If we can get in a new cb get Coleman back and Bolasie and bring in a new striker we will be much improved- by some miracle we may have Barkley as well but ai doubt it - once those players are back we need to buy a striker and a cb who can play left full back and I think we’ll see a dramatic upturn in performances but we have to get a quality cb and striker in.

Yep agree with that. I think Barkley is crucial. We're crying out for a midfielder who is good with the ball at his feet and add that creative spark. If he goes we have a big hole to fill, I've not been impressed with Sigurdsson so far and it's too much to expect of Davies at 19

[Newty82]

1 hour ago, Paddock said:

 

I give up I really really do- no wonder we’re fucked as a club.

I think you say something along these lines every season Pad!

This club really is not good for your health!!!

[Newty82]

Been charged by FA for 'Act of Simulation' for the Crystal Palace thing.

Personally I think that decision is a disgrace.

At the end of the day, there was contact. Him running at near full pelt and a big solid built defender blocking his route would have stopped him. The fall may be dramatic, but there was contact.

I wouldn't be arsed if it was consistent. But it's so far from consistent that it becomes laughable.

Let's see what happens when other players fall dramatically.

[nogs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42066734

Think that's bullshit. Dann steps across him, his shoulder hits his chest, he's entitled to go down. 

[Romey 1878]

Don't know why anyone's surprised. if it was City et al they'd get away it but it's just us.

[mcirony]

Everton need to build a dossier of similar incidents and submit that as their response, citing disproportionate punishment or something. 

 

[Matt]

Well, I guess we'll see how big a difference he makes to the team when he's missing for the 2 games

[Newty82]

They (Everton, the decision panel, pundits etc) should be asking what the intention of Scott Damn is? Because he makes no attempt to play the ball. So what is his intention as he steps across into Niasses path? Surely his only intention is to stop Niasses run? What else can he be doing? If he does this same movement anywhere else on the pitch, it's a free kick and no questions asked.

 

[Aidan]

Okay. So let me try to think of this completely unbias (key word "try").

Niasse takes the ball into the box, Dann slightly steps across him and slightly touches him, with nowhere near enough force to warrant him going down. Niasse goes down. An incorrect penalty is given. 

It's not a "dive" because a dive would indicate there is no contact. So therefore how can they ban him retrospectively for diving?

[nogs]

26 minutes ago, Aidan Lewis said:

Okay. So let me try to think of this completely unbias (key word "try").

Niasse takes the ball into the box, Dann slightly steps across him and slightly touches him, with nowhere near enough force to warrant him going down. Niasse goes down. An incorrect penalty is given. 

It's not a "dive" because a dive would indicate there is no contact. So therefore how can they ban him retrospectively for diving?

But if there's contact it's a penalty. He's running at full pelt, a slight touch is all it takes to unbalance you when you're running at speed. Yes he was theatrical, but as you point out, that is a different thing to diving. 

As Newty says, Dann has moved towards him knowing he cannot get the ball. He's probably tried to pull out realising he's about to give a penalty, but too late. He makes contact, therefore the ref's decision is correct. 

It just astounds me how the powers that be in football keep getting this wrong. Diving is when you pretend someone has touched you looking for a free kick or pen. If a player kicks, trips, pushes, grabs or blocks you without playing the ball it's a foul. You can do a double backwards somersault with pike if you like, it's still a foul. 

[Newty82]

Dermot Gallagher on SSN is saying the ref wouldn't have give it for an arm across the chest as that isn't enough contact. Or something.

He says the ref must have thought there was a trip, so gave the penalty for that. But as there was no trip, it was no penalty so therefore that's the ref being deceived by Niasse. What absolute crap that is.

Any clever defenders out there will now know that they can step across a player and if they do it smartly enough, it's no penalty. And I bet you plenty of smart managers out there will be relaying this to their players.

For me, the FA was just keen to use it's new fancy rules. But may potentially cause more problems than they solve. In true FA style.

[Aidan]

15 minutes ago, nogs said:

But if there's contact it's a penalty. He's running at full pelt, a slight touch is all it takes to unbalance you when you're running at speed. Yes he was theatrical, but as you point out, that is a different thing to diving. 

As Newty says, Dann has moved towards him knowing he cannot get the ball. He's probably tried to pull out realising he's about to give a penalty, but too late. He makes contact, therefore the ref's decision is correct. 

It just astounds me how the powers that be in football keep getting this wrong. Diving is when you pretend someone has touched you looking for a free kick or pen. If a player kicks, trips, pushes, grabs or blocks you without playing the ball it's a foul. You can do a double backwards somersault with pike if you like, it's still a foul. 

 

Its a contact sport though mate, a physical game. Its the means of the contact which indicates if is a foul or not. No way on earth was it a penalty.

[markjazzbassist]

well shit, there goes that.  i would play him versus atalanta then and put DCL with sandro for the soton match.

[Cornish Steve]

6 hours ago, Paddock said:

He’s scored a few goals- we need a regular 20 goal a season striker- all top sides have them- he isn’t a 20 goal a season striker end of conversation.

At his current rate of scoring, he's easily a 20-goal striker. Time will tell, I suppose.

[Cornish Steve]

5 hours ago, Paddock said:

Then the chances are we will be relegated Matt- I fail tosee how people think he’s good enough to score the goals we will need as Nogs has pointed out- nobody else is chipping in are they- yes he’s scored a few- one with his arse, a couple against Bournemouth and one at Palace- he doesn’t get a kick when we play a decent team- for fucks sake have we fallen this far to be accepting a player who is clearly shite because he’s scored a few goals against relegation fodder who can’t control a ball and just runs?? It’s not his fault by the way- the lads playing his heart out for us and I love him for that but he’s not good enough and I honestly wish he was- he’s an impact sub at best.

I give up I really really do- no wonder we’re fucked as a club.

Short memory. He scored as Hull beat Liverpool last season.

[Cornish Steve]

25 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

well shit, there goes that.  i would play him versus atalanta then and put DCL with sandro for the soton match.

Not registered to play in the Europa, unfortunately.

[Newty82]

1 hour ago, Aidan Lewis said:

 

Its a contact sport though mate, a physical game. Its the means of the contact which indicates if is a foul or not. No way on earth was it a penalty.

This is my bugging topic for today! Haha.

If he does that anywhere else on the pitch, it's a free kick for obstruction. We see it every game. And no one questions it. So far as I know, the rules don't change because it happens inside a 12 yard box on the pitch.

Do I think it's a penalty? By the way the game is played today, then yes it is a penalty. Do I think it should be a penalty? In the true meaning of being a contact sport, no. But then many other penalties and free kicks should not be given for the same 'contact sport' reasons.

I think the lines have just become even more blurred!!!

[Matt]

16 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

This is my bugging topic for today! Haha.

If he does that anywhere else on the pitch, it's a free kick for obstruction. We see it every game. And no one questions it. So far as I know, the rules don't change because it happens inside a 12 yard box on the pitch.

Do I think it's a penalty? By the way the game is played today, then yes it is a penalty. Do I think it should be a penalty? In the true meaning of being a contact sport, no. But then many other penalties and free kicks should not be given for the same 'contact sport' reasons.

I think the lines have just become even more blurred!!!

I think if he hadn't been so dramatic going down we wouldn't be having the debate. But he did, so we are

[aaron]

So Niasse gets a ban for diving, what action is taken against the ref for doing a shit job?

What action was taken against Ali and Bernardo Silva? Seems very one sided this. Worst of all is Niasse didn't even appeal for the pen, he went down and got back up. It was the refs poor decision that gave us the pen.

[nogs]

2 hours ago, Aidan Lewis said:

 

Its a contact sport though mate, a physical game. Its the means of the contact which indicates if is a foul or not. No way on earth was it a penalty.

It's a contact sport if you play the ball. It's not rugby. Having shades of whether contact is enough to send someone down is bollocks, it creates uncertainty and inconsistency like we're getting now. If the ball is knocked past you and you step into the player running through, it's a foul. Once you add shades of grey it becomes a farce.