Makis Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 I have to say I can't figure out what EU has to do with half the points in Paul's message. And some are downright misleading. For instance, Germany didn't say that, some in Germany did. Thing is, Germany doesn't decide this alone even if they all agreed which they don't. And while US wants certain things in the TTIP with the entire EU why wouldn't they want the same things with UK? Things like that ISDS and the point about the cosmetics. Plus TTIP is not a foregone conclusion yet anyways. Finally there are quite a few points which I'm quite sceptical about (I doubt the UK government will do them) but let's wait and see. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 It doesn't help that both sides effectively only played the fear card. I feel remain would've shaded it if they'd chosen to put forward more of why it is a good thing to be part of the EU, rather than to concentrate on why it'd be bad to leave. The half-hearted support from Labour (Corbyn in particular) played a big part as well I think; which is why they are currently in meltdown along with the Tories. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 The half-hearted support from Labour (Corbyn in particular) played a big part as well I think; which is why they are currently in meltdown along with the Tories. Corbyn has always been in opposition to us being in the EU. It was a miracle he put as much "effort" into remain as he did really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Won't make a blind bit of difference... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215 Would this demand have been made if Remain had one? I think not. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 I don't think anyone has ever said that (and I've said this before); nobody is saying all those who voted out are racist bigots, just that all racist bigots will have voted out. No idea what percentage of the vote that amounts to, maybe 1% in which it made no difference to the outcome, maybe 10% in which case it did. The "lack of intelligence" percentage would (I'd guess) be much higher among those that didn't vote at all than out voters. The rest of the post an in campaigner could certainly come up with a counter argument for all the points; it's about as balanced as Donald Trump. Mike you only have to go on social media to see what people think there's been multiple articles written about the uproar and labeling of people being what I said it's not hard to see Funny you should say that I posted that very thing to a lad on Facebook who's studied politics and ranted on about the ramifications of the out vote and the potential of it prior and do you know what I got back... nothing and many other's who read it did the same The only thing people can counter it with is nigh on nothing but scaremongering assumptions because we are entering an unknown on many fronts so how can they counter what they don't know for the most part? Whereas the above are what we can actually put into place or act upon How is it as balanced as Donald Trump? Daft statement tbh Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Didn't Farage say he wants a second referendum if he looses the first? holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 I have to say I can't figure out what EU has to do with half the points in Paul's message. And some are downright misleading. For instance, Germany didn't say that, some in Germany did. Thing is, Germany doesn't decide this alone even if they all agreed which they don't. And while US wants certain things in the TTIP with the entire EU why wouldn't they want the same things with UK? Things like that ISDS and the point about the cosmetics. Plus TTIP is not a foregone conclusion yet anyways. Finally there are quite a few points which I'm quite sceptical about (I doubt the UK government will do them) but let's wait and see. As said Makis not my words just something I've seen that puts a more positive spin on things rather than the doom and gloom scaremongering assumptions, also said I'm not saying it's gospel I'm yet to see many IN campaigners put together anything similar to the many potential positives I've seen by the OUT lot all I've seen is people plastering around a pledge to the NHS with Farage's face plastered next to it when the man didn't even say it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Didn't Farage say he wants a second referendum if he looses the first?No I think it was something along the lines if they lost by a small margin prior to the announcement they would request a referendum Tbh I voted out for a few reasons that I thought massively outweighed staying in but in terms of politicians I don't trust any and everyone of their words are nearly as hollow as the others, shame Hilary Benn took a back step he's the only one I could see doing a decent job as PM IMO Edited June 26, 2016 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Would this demand have been made if Remain had one? I think not. It was apparently started by an out supporter a month ago when it looked like they'd lose; remain have just turned it around. Dates support that, petitions run for six months so it was initially posted at the end of May. Mike you only have to go on social media to see what people think there's been multiple articles written about the uproar and labeling of people being what I said it's not hard to see Funny you should say that I posted that very thing to a lad on Facebook who's studied politics and ranted on about the ramifications of the out vote and the potential of it prior and do you know what I got back... nothing and many other's who read it did the same The only thing people can counter it with is nigh on nothing but scaremongering assumptions because we are entering an unknown on many fronts so how can they counter what they don't know for the most part? Whereas the above are what we can actually put into place or act upon How is it as balanced as Donald Trump? Daft statement tbh Mike I'm just saying it was an unbalanced piece (which it plainly was, fair enough, there are unbalanced diatribes from both sides as in all elections). The Trump reference was just that I consider him unbalanced as a person; it was just meant as a bit of humour . holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 It was apparently started by an out supporter a month ago when it looked like they'd lose; remain have just turned it around. Dates support that, petitions run for six months so it was initially posted at the end of May. I'm just saying it was an unbalanced piece (which it plainly was, fair enough, there are unbalanced diatribes from both sides as in all elections). The Trump reference was just that I consider him unbalanced as a person; it was just meant as a bit of humour . Sorry Mike I took it the wrong way three hours of sleep before work has me a tad tetchy today mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 One more thing about that list. Reading it it sounds like the EU parliament is actively trying to sabotage trade from the EU. There are no upsides, just a long list of things to make trade more difficult. And good thing this referendum wasn't about xenophobia or racism. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-racism_uk_576fe161e4b08d2c56396075?edition=uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Sorry Mike I took it the wrong way three hours of sleep before work has me a tad tetchy today mate No worries . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 This blew my mind. For the brexiters in here, which side of that table do you identify more? holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 And good thing this referendum wasn't about xenophobia or racism. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-racism_uk_576fe161e4b08d2c56396075?edition=uk I was going to stay out of it but this pulled my strings! Anyone with a logical head will know that these sort of people would act in this way no matter what. This is not about 'Brexit'. This is about racists. They exist in every country. I'm pretty sure if I walked through certain parts of certain cities, I'd get abuse too. EFC-Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 I was going to stay out of it but this pulled my strings! Anyone with a logical head will know that these sort of people would act in this way no matter what. This is not about 'Brexit'. This is about racists. They exist in every country. I'm pretty sure if I walked through certain parts of certain cities, I'd get abuse too. But that would be due to the undersized lederhosen you choose to wear Newts (rumours spread quick); not your race . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 But that would be due to the undersized lederhosen you choose to wear Newts (rumours spread quick); not your race . Hang on a minute, do you know me?!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Hang on a minute, do you know me?!!! TT has "little birds" everywhere . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Whenever I read critiques of politicians, particularly from media that may be considered "left wing" and the subject is tory politicians I try and stay objective, this guy though seems to be everything they say and he's nailed on for the PMs job. He couldn't lie straight in bed. http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/treasury-committee/news-parliament-2015/eu-referendum-evidence-15-16/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) It doesn't help that both sides effectively only played the fear card. I feel remain would've shaded it if they'd chosen to put forward more of why it is a good thing to be part of the EU, rather than to concentrate on why it'd be bad to leave. Probably not a surprise that I agree with this one hundred percent. To have someone who voted out say this, warms my heart . - I'd like to come back on what I said about the message of the Brexit only resonating with extremist parties on the continent. It's true that only the leaders of these parties celebrated a Brexit but a vote on whether your country stays in the EU doesn't happen along party lines. Le Pen is the leader of the only political party in France that is against the EU, she is also a fascist. But that doesn't mean that in France only fascists are against the EU. The anti-establishment argument is really resonating with a lot of people right now. People want to say No, indifferent of the question asked if they see the establishment backing yes. Reform is needed in the EU, but first and foremost politicians should stress, as Romey said, the positives of EU membership. You shouldn't be in the EU because scaremongerers make you afraid your country can't survive outside of it (ofcourse it can), you should be in the EU because you want to. - This article by Timothy Gordon Ash really hits the nail on the head (imo): http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/lifelong-english-european-the-biggest-defeat-of-my-political-life-timothy-garton-ash-brexit Edited June 27, 2016 by holystove EFC-Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) One more thing about that list. Reading it it sounds like the EU parliament is actively trying to sabotage trade from the EU. There are no upsides, just a long list of things to make trade more difficult. And good thing this referendum wasn't about xenophobia or racism. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-racism_uk_576fe161e4b08d2c56396075?edition=uk Is this the article that looked at something like 170 tweets and came to the conclusion that 17m people are racists, its nonsense Makis Edited June 27, 2016 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Matt You may have read this already mate but thought I'd post it just in case, I'm no expert on your situation but by the sounds of (what I've read) it hopefully the likes of yourself will be ok? http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/expat-worries_where-does-a-brexit-leave-brits-in-switzerland-/42250758 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Is this the article that looked at something like 170 tweets and came to the conclusion that 17m people are racists, its nonsense Makis How am I supposed to know which article you are thinking about? Why don't you just click the link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 It took 7 years for Canada to negotiate their trade agreement with the EU. The only other option apart from not having an agreement with the EU, is to make a Norwegian type deal which would mean that the UK will still have to follow the EU in some matters, Such as immigration. A lot of pissed off polititians in Sweden atm, I agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Matt You may have read this already mate but thought I'd post it just in case, I'm no expert on your situation but by the sounds of (what I've read) it hopefully the likes of yourself will be ok? http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/expat-worries_where-does-a-brexit-leave-brits-in-switzerland-/42250758 thanks man. I've seen conflicting debates but that seems quite well thought out. Seems the EU rules protect me more than the government does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 How am I supposed to know which article you are thinking about? Why don't you just click the link? Makis I did I was referring to that very article!! Which is bollocks tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Would this demand have been made if Remain had one? I think not. It was dated before the vote. And created by a leave follower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Is this the article that looked at something like 170 tweets and came to the conclusion that 17m people are racists, its nonsense Makis Its not bollocks at all, clearly not everyone who voted leave is a thick racist, but every thick racist has been been empowered by the result and the evidence is everywhere. EFC-Paul and Johnsy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 It took 7 years for Canada to negotiate their trade agreement with the EU. The only other option apart from not having an agreement with the EU, is to make a Norwegian type deal which would mean that the UK will still have to follow the EU in some matters, Such as immigration. A lot of pissed off polititians in Sweden atm, I agree with them. Apparently the per capita fee of Norway for single market access is about the same as the contribution of the UK to EU budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Apparently the per capita fee of Norway for single market access is about the same as the contribution of the UK to EU budget. Sounds like a good deal to me. No worse off but able to trade anywhere in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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