Palfy Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 The biggest fuck up to hit this country in my life time, let’s do the only sensible option left to us No Brexit and remain Because digging our heels just to save face isn’t right when we know it’s all gone Pete tong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Palfy said: The biggest fuck up to hit this country in my life time, let’s do the only sensible option left to us No Brexit and remain Because digging our heels just to save face isn’t right when we know it’s all gone Pete tong Unfortunately the referendum question was lacking in nuance, leave won and there is no option to remain. Remainers have to accept that. Anyone who was worried about what deal was possible very likely voted remain, or didn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Palfy said: The biggest fuck up to hit this country in my life time, let’s do the only sensible option left to us No Brexit and remain Because digging our heels just to save face isn’t right when we know it’s all gone Pete tong what is the biggest fuck up to happen in your lifetime Palfy ? I thought for a minute you were talking about brexit but as that has not happened yet I am struggling to follow what you mean. yes I realise you are against brexit and this is the brexit thread but as it has not happened yet I am sadly a bit confused as to what has happened to make you say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 hours ago, rubecula said: what is the biggest fuck up to happen in your lifetime Palfy ? I thought for a minute you were talking about brexit but as that has not happened yet I am struggling to follow what you mean. yes I realise you are against brexit and this is the brexit thread but as it has not happened yet I am sadly a bit confused as to what has happened to make you say that? The fact that we were promised a lot of advantages and can’t even get the initial negotiations right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 8 hours ago, Chach said: Unfortunately the referendum question was lacking in nuance, leave won and there is no option to remain. Remainers have to accept that. I agree. Brexit has to go through. To stop Brexit now would put the EU's most obstructionist Member-state back in the centre of the EU, but this time with an even more divided public opinion on Europe. The best way to defeat populists is to put their idiotic ideas into effect and watch them fail. UK is very welcome to rejoin after March 29th 2019. Chach and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 10 hours ago, rubecula said: what is the biggest fuck up to happen in your lifetime Palfy ? I thought for a minute you were talking about brexit but as that has not happened yet I am struggling to follow what you mean. yes I realise you are against brexit and this is the brexit thread but as it has not happened yet I am sadly a bit confused as to what has happened to make you say that? I was thinking a head Rubes but your right it hasn’t been it hasn’t happened yet, but mark my words mate it will happen and hopefully it’s good but I can’t see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Palfy said: I was thinking a head Rubes but your right it hasn’t been it hasn’t happened yet, but mark my words mate it will happen and hopefully it’s good but I can’t see it. thanks mate I was thinking I had missed something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 39 minutes ago, rubecula said: thanks mate I was thinking I had missed something. To be honest, I think a lot of people have with this whole, hypocritical debacle. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Matt said: To be honest, I think a lot of people have with this whole, hypocritical debacle. it has been very divisive has it not? but at least it allowed some of s to show how we really feel about some people that we thought of as friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 34 minutes ago, rubecula said: it has been very divisive has it not? but at least it allowed some of s to show how we really feel about some people that we thought of as friends. That’s deep mate, it is emotional and I’ve said plenty of things that were wrong as you know, but some times the frustration and red mist take over and you fuck up. But what ever happens good or bad we will all still be here god willing and getting on with it and watching the Toffees rise to top rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 44 minutes ago, rubecula said: it has been very divisive has it not? but at least it allowed some of s to show how we really feel about some people that we thought of as friends. And I will continue to think of friends as just that, regardless of their vote it was divisive because of false information and false promises, and that the population was grossly uneducated (seemingly the politicians too) to have been allowed this to have ever been up for discussion rubecula and holystove 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 the problem can be laid at the feet of lazy politicians imho on the leave side they were lazy to put the referendum out there in the first place/ on the remain side they were lazy in not wanting to do what they were voted into office for/ if you understand what I mean ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, rubecula said: the problem can be laid at the feet of lazy politicians imho on the leave side they were lazy to put the referendum out there in the first place/ on the remain side they were lazy in not wanting to do what they were voted into office for/ if you understand what I mean ... No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Palfy said: No I am not too good with words really am I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 On 21/11/2018 at 21:27, rubecula said: I am not too good with words really am I? Rubes post in Welsh and we would never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 41 minutes ago, Palfy said: Rubes post in Welsh and we would never know Palfy, I thought the post that you posted 'no' against, was in Welsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 2 hours ago, johnh said: Palfy, I thought the post that you posted 'no' against, was in Welsh. walked into that one, thanks John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 24, 2018 Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 On 23/11/2018 at 16:20, Palfy said: Rubes post in Welsh and we would never know ok panad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted November 24, 2018 Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 28 minutes ago, rubecula said: ok panad? English slang is Char, cuppa, Rosy Lea. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 24, 2018 Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 1 hour ago, rubecula said: ok panad? Well said rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 The Irish professor in Matt's video is completely correct, its all a completely pointless exercise. You can see by the lack of action since invoking Article 50 that the Govt had absolutely no intention of fully leaving the EU. They have made no attempt to prepare the infrastructure, they have had a couple of Brexit secretaries resign on, when reading through the lines, would appear to have had very little say on what was being negotiated. In fact, I wouldn't even fully blame the whole Govt, it would seem to be May and her inner circle who have been plowing a lone furrow with their own vision of what they believe Brexit to be which I would be fairly confident in assuming is nothing like this current deal, and also nothing like the SNP/Labour parties are also currently peddling. I think it was mentioned earlier on in this thread that there is a case going through the Courts to determine whether A50 can be legally withdrawn without permission of the EU member states. Lets bloody hope it can be because its far too late to leave the EU with no deal and this current deal is pointless. I did mention around the time of the referendum that whilst ideologically I would vote leave, I had no confidence in this Govt (or any other for that matter) to be able to deliver it in almost any capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 It took all 27 members of the E.U just 40 minutes to sign up to the deal, now if that doesn't tell you it's a deal for them and not us I don't know what will. It won't go through our Parliament because it's not a good deal for us, surely we haven't got to the stage of excepting a bad deal just for the sake of a deal. Let's all be honest it's a lot worse than what we had before so why except it, No Brexit is the best way to go we won't and can't sign up to this deal, I'd rather no deal than give into this blackmailing deal where we will put in more money and get nothing out and no say. Our 39billion will go to bailing out the likes of Italy Greece Spain Portugal and Ireland and propping up the EU. Matt and Bailey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 The other problem is that the deal goes into such little detail which means that anything is still up for grabs in the "future relationship". You only have to listen to Macron with his veiled threat about the hard Irish border if they dont get what they want from the fishing policy. If I remember rightly the future agreement talks about doing what it can to avoid a hard border and the hope that technology can be used to avoid it. If that is the case, why isnt the technology already in play and ready to roll so that there is nothing to argue over. If we had a PM that was actually preparing the country for Brexit then we would have a far stronger hand with the EU and far less to fear from a no deal Brexit. I have thought about this more and I dont think a second referendum will do anything apart from push the issues back 6 months before igniting the whole debate again but even fiercer. I cant see this vote getting through Parliament so I expect the PM to resign and the new PM (God knows who that could be) will be tasked with agreeing an A50 extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 Trump has ramped the pressure up on May by threatening no trade deal with USA if her deal with EU goes through, he hates the EU so he using us as a weapon against them he’s a horrible prick, how anyone would rather have ties with him rather than Europe I have no idea. We are going to find ourselves at this rate completely on our own with no one to make deals with, we have to have another referendum whether we like it or not, this has become to big for just politicians to decide on. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 36 minutes ago, Palfy said: Trump has ramped the pressure up on May by threatening no trade deal with USA if her deal with EU goes through, he hates the EU so he using us as a weapon against them he’s a horrible prick, how anyone would rather have ties with him rather than Europe I have no idea. We are going to find ourselves at this rate completely on our own with no one to make deals with, we have to have another referendum whether we like it or not, this has become to big for just politicians to decide on. Its a fact. Until we agree a full customs arrangement which isnt the CU or the current watered down CU and this is something that thr EU will have to agree to (ie we cant even just say no deal without their agreement) then we wont be able to negotiate our own deals. The positive is that by the time we are able to potentially start trading with the USA, Trump will be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 11 hours ago, Palfy said: Trump has ramped the pressure up on May by threatening no trade deal with USA if her deal with EU goes through, he hates the EU so he using us as a weapon against them he’s a horrible prick, how anyone would rather have ties with him rather than Europe I have no idea. We are going to find ourselves at this rate completely on our own with no one to make deals with, we have to have another referendum whether we like it or not, this has become to big for just politicians to decide on. All he's doing is what every other market will do, which is why the arrogance that the UK will be a golden egg for everyone to trade with was a delusion. There was strength in numbers, even if it came with limitations. We no longer have that strength and will have to accept even more limitations. Honestly, the politicians should be sued and jailed for flagrant deception and fraud and the whole debacle should be voided based on the deception laws. pete0, MikeO and Palfy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 16 hours ago, Palfy said: Trump has ramped the pressure up on May by threatening no trade deal with USA if her deal with EU goes through, he hates the EU so he using us as a weapon against them he’s a horrible prick, how anyone would rather have ties with him rather than Europe I have no idea. We are going to find ourselves at this rate completely on our own with no one to make deals with, we have to have another referendum whether we like it or not, this has become to big for just politicians to decide on. strange that is not being reported in the US media at all. article? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said: strange that is not being reported in the US media at all. article? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46360310 markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 10 hours ago, Matt said: All he's doing is what every other market will do, which is why the arrogance that the UK will be a golden egg for everyone to trade with was a delusion. There was strength in numbers, even if it came with limitations. We no longer have that strength and will have to accept even more limitations. Honestly, the politicians should be sued and jailed for flagrant deception and fraud and the whole debacle should be voided based on the deception laws. No he is saying what he is saying because of the "deal" we are about to be signed up to. I cant imagine anybody who wanted to leave the EU wanting these initial terms. Based upon what I have read from neutral media outlets there are plenty of countries who are looking to trade with us even if they will not make up the difference from the EU, especially not in the short term. The long term picture depends entirely on how our politicians approach the challenge of Brexit. Its that part that I have absolutely no hope for and its for that reason that leaving the EU in March would be a massive fuck up. MikeO and Palfy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 12 hours ago, Bailey said: No he is saying what he is saying because of the "deal" we are about to be signed up to. I cant imagine anybody who wanted to leave the EU wanting these initial terms. Based upon what I have read from neutral media outlets there are plenty of countries who are looking to trade with us even if they will not make up the difference from the EU, especially not in the short term. The long term picture depends entirely on how our politicians approach the challenge of Brexit. Its that part that I have absolutely no hope for and its for that reason that leaving the EU in March would be a massive fuck up. Exactly, and this deal was always going to be what was always going to happen for multiple reasons. Every other country wanting to trade will also leverage this, and as our politicians have shown, they're completely incompetent unless it comes to lying to the public and looking after their own interests. The only way he or the other markets would be for Mays deal is if benefited them, not us. The problem with the long term plan is that it can be utterly destroyed with short term actions and we're already seeing this before we've even left. The short term consequences will massively undermine what supposed power we have, which ruins any long term dreams of prospering - it's hard to get ahead in a race if you've decided to knee-cap yourself before the race starts. If they press ahead, we can add gross negligence on the list of crimes. Just curious, what do you refer to for "neutral media outlets". I didn't think they existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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