johnh Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 On 01/12/2018 at 11:47, Palfy said: Great article just waiting for John and Rubes to shout project fear just like the pompous idiots they believed in, as they are followers of stats how can they possibly argue they were right when the facts clearly prove they are wrong, unless of course the harbour another agenda. Palfy, if the Governor of the Bank of England can get it so wrong, why would I be interested in what a celebrity thinks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, johnh said: Palfy, if the Governor of the Bank of England can get it so wrong, why would I be interested in what a celebrity thinks? It’s not what he thinks, he’s just presenting facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Matt said: You mean the Tory’s or the EU? Either way, one won’t and the other can’t. I didn’t mean anyone. Just exactly what I said. So I wouldn’t change my vote if given another opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, Romey 1878 said: I didn’t mean anyone. Just exactly what I said. So I wouldn’t change my vote if given another opportunity. Fair enough. Never really understood your reasoning on the whole thing anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Matt said: Fair enough. Never really understood your reasoning on the whole thing anyway As I don’t understand yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: I didn’t mean anyone. Just exactly what I said. So I wouldn’t change my vote if given another opportunity. How would remaining in the EU have threatened the NHS? The reverse would seem more likely (unless you believe UKIP). https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-nhs-destroy-how-healthcare-donald-trump-eu-withdrawal-bill-funding-crisis-money-budget-a8194751.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: As I don’t understand yours. Happy to answer any questions mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, MikeO said: How would remaining in the EU have threatened the NHS? The reverse would seem more likely (unless you believe UKIP). https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-nhs-destroy-how-healthcare-donald-trump-eu-withdrawal-bill-funding-crisis-money-budget-a8194751.html I wasn’t saying they would for a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: I wasn’t saying they would for a start. The inference from your post... "The only way I would change my vote if it guaranteed the protection of the NHS from becoming a private healthcare company." ...suggests that you think remaining would somehow have put the NHS at risk. I can't see why. The only risk to the NHS is the Conservative party in my opinion. Did the brexit camp mention the future of the NHS at any point? I must've missed it (oh, apart from the lie on the bus). holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, MikeO said: The inference from your post... "The only way I would change my vote if it guaranteed the protection of the NHS from becoming a private healthcare company." ...suggests that you think remaining would somehow have put the NHS at risk. I can't see why. The only risk to the NHS is the Conservative party in my opinion. Did the brexit camp mention the future of the NHS at any point? I must've missed it (oh, apart from the lie on the bus). Well that’s not what I meant. I meant that if staying would protect the NHS I would change my vote. But it won’t because the Conservatives will not be out of power for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: Well that’s not what I meant. I meant that if staying would protect the NHS I would change my vote. But it won’t because the Conservatives will not be out of power for a very long time. Fair enough, I think (hope) you overestimate the tory's longevity though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 sadly I agree with Romey Not because the tories are any good but because the alternatives are so poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 hour ago, MikeO said: Fair enough, I think (hope) you overestimate the tory's longevity though. There won’t be enough people that will vote Labour while Corbyn is leader. Until he’s replaced they’ve got zero chance, and he looks to have a stranglehold on it. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 hours ago, johnh said: Palfy, if the Governor of the Bank of England can get it so wrong, why would I be interested in what a celebrity thinks? He was the narrator not the writer I understand why you don't like it or want to believe it it's very damming isn'ttt it, not something to be proud of or to be associated with, luckily you won't have to carry the burden our children and grandchildren will do that for you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 18 hours ago, Palfy said: He was the narrator not the writer I understand why you don't like it or want to believe it it's very damming isn'tttt it, not something to be proud of or to be associated with, luckily you won't have to carry the burden our children and grandchildren will do that for you ? Palfy, its not a question of 'not wanting to believe it', like most things from 'Remain' it falls into the category of propaganda. Unfortunately for remain, the selection of the presenter was poor. Using a celebrity just tells us that remain were more concerned about the 'presentation' than the message. To clarify my position, I have no interest in anything put out by remainers. I thought hard about my decision, voted leave, and would vote leave again. We won and all I am interested in now, is getting out as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, johnh said: Palfy, its not a question of 'not wanting to believe it', like most things from 'Remain' it falls into the category of propaganda. Unfortunately for remain, the selection of the presenter was poor. Using a celebrity just tells us that remain were more concerned about the 'presentation' than the message. To clarify my position, I have no interest in anything put out by remainers. I thought hard about my decision, voted leave, and would vote leave again. We won and all I am interested in now, is getting out as soon as possible. Fair enough John but I will finish by saying that by your answer you think it’s a them and us competition like a football match, and your clearly not interested in the reality of what’s happening, I really shouldn’t be surprised by that there is an element of Brexiteers of a certain age who refuse to open their eyes and minds to the reality of what is actually happening, all I can hope for is that there are more who are receptive to the truth, and it’s returned back to the country for the final decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, johnh said: Palfy, its not a question of 'not wanting to believe it', like most things from 'Remain' it falls into the category of propaganda. Unfortunately for remain, the selection of the presenter was poor. Using a celebrity just tells us that remain were more concerned about the 'presentation' than the message. To clarify my position, I have no interest in anything put out by remainers. I thought hard about my decision, voted leave, and would vote leave again. We won and all I am interested in now, is getting out as soon as possible. Anything from politicians is propaganda. Unfortunately, the Remain argument is based on fact, whereas Leave has been based on arrogant delusions. I don’t know how anyone can see any win other than 1, undemocratic, number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 8 hours ago, Matt said: Anything from politicians is propaganda. Unfortunately, the Remain argument is based on fact, whereas Leave has been based on arrogant delusions. I don’t know how anyone can see any win other than 1, undemocratic, number. Matt I have kept quiet on this up until now but you are so wrong I think I need to correct you Anything from politicians is propaganda. Unfortunately, the Leave argument is based on fact, whereas Remain has been based on arrogant delusions. no I do not believe this line anymore than I believe yours/ but if you want a balanced argument you must stick to real facts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 47 minutes ago, rubecula said: Matt I have kept quiet on this up until now but you are so wrong I think I need to correct you Anything from politicians is propaganda. Unfortunately, the Leave argument is based on fact, whereas Remain has been based on arrogant delusions. no I do not believe this line anymore than I believe yours/ but if you want a balanced argument you must stick to real facts Considering the Leave vote is based on future events potentially happening, please explain the fact part. Real facts are things that have happened, not assumptions on what might happen. That politicians have repeatedly flat out lied to the public is a fact. That the economy has take a hit is a fact. That company’s are relocating is a fact. That the EU, for all it’s faults, has delivered a high standard of living, sometimes in face of British political disagreement, is fact. That the EU has forced a better distribution of funds in the country is fact. That the EU has provided easier movement for employment is a fact. I could go on if you like pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 17 hours ago, johnh said: Palfy, its not a question of 'not wanting to believe it', like most things from 'Remain' it falls into the category of propaganda. Unfortunately for remain, the selection of the presenter was poor. Using a celebrity just tells us that remain were more concerned about the 'presentation' than the message. To clarify my position, I have no interest in anything put out by remainers. I thought hard about my decision, voted leave, and would vote leave again. We won and all I am interested in now, is getting out as soon as possible. You're bang out of order mate, Stephen Fry is an intellectual and a national treasure and, your argument is genetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Big news! 3 options on the table now. May's deal, no deal or stay in the EU. The televised debate to be hosted by Noel Edmonds which is why they had to get him out of the jungle so soon. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Bailey said: Big news! 3 options on the table now. May's deal, no deal or stay in the EU. The televised debate to be hosted by Noel Edmonds which is why they had to get him out of the jungle so soon. That would actually make more sense than what's currently happening, I laughed at first but then thought, "...hold on a minute, Bailey may be on to something!". Matt and Bailey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, MikeO said: That would actually make more sense than what's currently happening, I laughed at first but then thought, "...hold on a minute, Bailey may be on to something!". I actually went to the BBC News site because I thought it would be something that's likely to happen.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Matt said: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579 This is only an opinion by the Advocate-General, doesn't mean the Court will follow it. Thinking advisory means binding is what got the UK in this mess in the first place. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, holystove said: This is only an opinion by the Advocate-General, doesn't mean the Court will follow it. Thinking advisory means binding is what got the UK in this mess in the first place. It’s got to balance out somehow mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46446694 our democracy actually working as intended MikeO, Palfy and Bailey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 On 01/12/2018 at 17:27, Palfy said: But now we have more of an idea of what the true Brexit is going to look like, it shouldn't be left to a few hundred to decide whether we no deal no Brexit or except the deal it should be made by the millions, there should be a vote with 3 options with Brexit and no deal, Brexit with the PMs deal or no Brexit. I think remain campaigners did highlight things that have happened as the article says, but Brexiteers and the right wing press condemned the truth as project fear without counter arguments, and a big proportion of the population supported them because it gave them the opportunity to hide there prejudices yet push them through. Now these type of people won't change their vote but the ones who genuinely voted out because they were tricked into believing we would be better off are the ones who want the right to right a wrong and why shouldn't they, now the only voters who would object to this are the Brexiteers with the prejudices. Said a month ago Mike it’s the only fair way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 23 hours ago, Matt said: Considering the Leave vote is based on future events potentially happening, please explain the fact part. Real facts are things that have happened, not assumptions on what might happen. That politicians have repeatedly flat out lied to the public is a fact. That the economy has take a hit is a fact. That company’s are relocating is a fact. That the EU, for all it’s faults, has delivered a high standard of living, sometimes in face of British political disagreement, is fact. That the EU has forced a better distribution of funds in the country is fact. That the EU has provided easier movement for employment is a fact. I could go on if you like my point in a nutshell Matt please remember your words in the future only if you want to I doubt I will be bothered by what you say, but some others may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 4 hours ago, rubecula said: my point in a nutshell Matt please remember your words in the future only if you want to I doubt I will be bothered by what you say, but some others may be. So I understand you; we agree Leave's sales pitch was based on possibilities that haven't happened and not fact, whereas the arguments made to stay are based on past events which are fact? That's been my point from the beginning, so I won't be forgetting that stance any time soon rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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