johnh Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Jonh are you some kind of genius....your memory is incredible. Love your story's. great to read. Shukes, thanks for the compliment but you must realise that I wrote these guys names out several times a week for several years. So its burned on my brain. Whatever you do don't ask me what I had for breakfast today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Shukes, thanks for the compliment but you must realise that I wrote these guys names out several times a week for several years. So its burned on my brain. Whatever you do don't ask me what I had for breakfast today. Haha still great story's friend and lovely to hear about your experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 It is real you'd be daft to the think otherwise and no one has said its purely propaganda so I'm not sure what your referencing.... I've got polish neighbours they've never had an issue since moving next door five years ago and there's a fair amount of racial tension in parts of Preston I'm referencing project fear friend. In my area it has become a reality. It's disgusting. It's always been here, but never this bad. I know it may possibly be secluded to my area, but it still shocks me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 My first "proper" (1977) job we had an incredibly well spoken photographer who was introduced to me as "Chris". Was only when I got a list of phone extension numbers given to me me that I saw his name was actually Krzysztov Walicki; he was Polish also. Lovely bloke except for his habit of never putting his hand in his pocket at the pub; he used to arrive five minutes after the rest of us at lunchtime and buy himself a pint and come and sit with us. Then he'd barely touch it until someone said, "Who wants another?" at which point he'd neck it. He'd then shamelessly do the same thing with every future round (and there used to be many). Drove a Porsche unsurprisingly. Mike, he wouldn't have survived in Yorkshire where the number 1 commandment is 'stand your corner'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Agree totally mate. People have already commented to me that the reason they voted out was to vote against the system rather than Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 I think a lot of the negativity towards the EU has come from the refugee crisis. Ironically these people all come from North Africa, Syria and Iraq but I think a lot of people just used the Referendum as a way to vent their frustration over this absolute catastrophe. Let's face it, the refugee crisis is entirely our own doing. The invasion of Iraq, the bombing of Libya and the supply of arms to "rebels" (Al Qaeda) in Syria is the root cause of the problem. We see images of refugees, albeit almost all young men, stampeding through southern Europe and people think "balls to that" Merkel's open invitation to the world's displaced has been a catastrophe of her own making and it has done nothing but compound the issue. If anything can be learned from Brexit, if the people really have voted to reject the ways of our government then we must have a drastic change to our foreign policy and that means a complete stop to all interfering with the world's business. By that logic we should have stayed out of WW2 and just let Hitler get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 That's a big assumption. Why? "...that means a complete stop to all interfering with the world's business." No assumption at all. We "interfered" in 1939; Germany would happily have left us alone if we'd stayed out of it and let them take over the continent, as many wanted us to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 I'm sorry but I won't be indulging your reductio ad hitlerum Given the subject matter and your post Godwin's Law is irrelevant. Feel free not to indulge but it's nothing to do with any "law", it's because your assertion is ridiculous. How can we stop interfering with the World's business while we're part of it? Forget Hitler if you prefer, try apartheid in SA. Should we have let that go on because it was none of our business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Well half the country has just voted to ignore the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Just the drop on the stock exchange since the vote has cost more than 24 years of EU fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Just the drop on the stock exchange since the vote has cost more than 24 years of EU fees. No, the drop on the stock exchange is paper money, the EU fees are hard cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 I'm referencing project fear friend. In my area it has become a reality. It's disgusting. It's always been here, but never this bad. I know it may possibly be secluded to my area, but it still shocks me. I knew that my point was its been blown out of proportion since the vote was announced not that it doesn't or isn't happening it's simply been highlighted more, if you read back (if you haven't) you would have got the point I was putting across Anyway that's my take on it I can't be arsed treading over covered ground tbh On a side note just seen Gove talking bollocks on the TV I hope to god that cretin doesn't get the job as PM or we'll see him attempt to dismantle what assets we do have to build on MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 No, the drop on the stock exchange is paper money, the EU fees are hard cash. The drop on the stock exchange is today's speculation; tomorrow could be totally different. Take Peter's point but time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 Well then. Let's just tear down all barriers between all nations and let everyone migrate wherever they want with unfettered access to healthcare, education, welfare, and so on. Let's see what happens then. There's nothing wrong with having the goal of overcoming inequality. I'm a huge proponent of that. It's why I support outsourcing, because it's been by far the most successful form of foreign aid. The answer is not to simply tear down all barriers. Nations exist because every culture is different, and values are different, and problems are different. If we really cared about inequality, we'd truly help African nations, for example, saddled with huge debt and ridiculous austerity measures. The world's current approach is a travesty. The solution respects national sovereignty; we can't just ignore it. My argument is that all of Europe is ready for, and really wants, economic union. Many countries are completely unready for political union. Let's recognize that fact. If we do, maybe, in a few decades, political union will be a real possibility. It isn't right now. Happily. No reason why every country couldn't have a welfare system, richer countries could give aid to those in need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 Oliver is actually quite funny with all the Brexit stuff; better than I expected of him. Chach and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 Happily. No reason why every country couldn't have a welfare system, richer countries could give aid to those in need. It's sadly not that simple... pie in the sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 It's sadly not that simple... pie in the skywhy? Making realities possible is possible if people believe and actually take the conscious decision to make it happen. Equality worldwide is what we should all be aiming for MikeO and Johnsy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 why? Making realities possible is possible if people believe and actually take the conscious decision to make it happen. Equality worldwide is what we should all be aiming for We should that's why I said "sadly" implying that's what I'd like to happen but if you genuinely think it's even a possibility then we live in different realities We can't even deal with gender equality as a species let alone trying to rid the world of corruption debt famine social and religious divisions the list is endless! As said pie in the sky... sadly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 Happily. No reason why every country couldn't have a welfare system, richer countries could give aid to those in need. We have ample opportunity today to help and give to struggling nations, but we don't. I've visited Africa many times, for example, and our treatment of them is disgraceful. (And many of those policies, by the way, are promoted by exceedingly rich and powerful German banks.) There are plenty of ways we could help, especially with out-of-the-box thinking. For example, why doesn't Britain partner with just one developing country (take Zambia as an example). Then allow our major towns and cities to partner with towns and cities in that country. Once links are established, agree specific projects and timelines and encourage visits between these cities. This way, real things get done. The answer is NOT to say let everyone in Zambia move to Britain and vice versa - because migration would be almost entirely one way and Britain would not be able to cope. Let's respect cultures and sovereign nations but never lose sight of genuinely helping the world's most needy because we want to. EFC-Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 We should that's why I said "sadly" implying that's what I'd like to happen but if you genuinely think it's even a possibility then we live in different realities We can't even deal with gender equality as a species let alone trying to rid the world of corruption debt famine social and religious divisions the list is endless! As said pie in the sky... sadly everythibg is possible, doesn't mean it's easy and quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 No, the drop on the stock exchange is paper money, the EU fees are hard cash. Oh its only paper money, best sell my shares then. Worthless paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Oh its only paper money, best sell my shares then. Worthless paper. Well you don't sell at the bottom of the market. There is a good chance the share value will recover. The 'cash' we pay to the EU gets spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Well you don't sell at the bottom of the market. There is a good chance the share value will recover. The 'cash' we pay to the EU gets spent. A lot of it comes back in rebate though in addition to money that is spent in and on the UK, but you already know that; just don't feel the need to mention it . Anyway, messier and messier.... https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 For the record, I sold shares the day before the vote, let the market drop, and then bought shares. They've since risen to prices higher than they were before the vote. There's no point yielding to manufactured fear, but there's every point in taking advantage of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 A lot of it comes back in rebate though in addition to money that is spent in and on the UK, but you already know that; just don't feel the need to mention it . Anyway, messier and messier.... https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/ What are you saying Mike, that there is no net cost of being in the EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Just checked. UK contribution to the EU 18 billion Less rebate 5 billion Less EU spending in UK 4.5 billion Net contribution 8.5 billion (hard cash) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 What are you saying Mike, that there is no net cost of being in the EU? There's a net cost of being part of lots of things, from your local gym to international treaties; the question is whether the net cost is worth the benefits derived. And that's the big unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Just checked. UK contribution to the EU 18 billion Less rebate 5 billion Less EU spending in UK 4.5 billion Net contribution 8.5 billion (hard cash) But that's government money (if it's accurate) and takes no account of the trade benefits to the country in any number of other ways. If only it were that simple John; "out" would've got 99% of the vote and all the meltdown wouldn't be happening. It's not. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Just checked. UK contribution to the EU 18 billion Less rebate 5 billion Less EU spending in UK 4.5 billion Net contribution 8.5 billion (hard cash) easy maths ignoring the jobs created, projects approved that would otherwise never happen (Liverpool being a great example of that), opportunities created for business.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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