Who are the better players?

[MikeO]

What's the logic behind the "Pogba would sell a lot more shirts" argument btw? Are people saying that hoards of Frenchmen would suddenly become Evertonians or that all current Evertonians would rush out and get another shirt?

 

Personally I don't buy either argument, we'd sell a few more but with the amount of money in the game now from other sources the effect on our overall income would be negligible; certainly wouldn't be enough to even cover his wages.

[Matt]

What's the logic behind the "Pogba would sell a lot more shirts" argument btw? Are people saying that hoards of Frenchmen would suddenly become Evertonians or that all current Evertonians would rush out and get another shirt?

 

Personally I don't buy either argument, we'd sell a few more but with the amount of money in the game now from other sources the effect on our overall income would be negligible; certainly wouldn't be enough to even cover his wages.

dont forget that extra shirt sales are irrelevant due to the Kitbag deal

[markjazzbassist]

dont forget that extra shirt sales are irrelevant due to the Kitbag deal

 

lol you brought it full circle matt

[MikeO]

dont forget that extra shirt sales are irrelevant due to the Kitbag deal

 

That as well.

[Shukes]

Watching Pogba in the euros,.... People thought he was poor? Wow, just shows how different eyes see things.

 

I actually tipped Manure foe the title after seeing him in the euros. First time I really took notice of him in the euros.

My thoughts were, in my god I hope they don't get him.

 

Closest player to Viera, since Viera.

Wins tackles, holds onto the ball, commands the ball, gets tackled......Then somehow still comes out with the ball?

 

Think he can become one of the best.

 

But he's not Gana though is he.

[pete0]

Watching Pogba in the euros,.... People thought he was poor? Wow, just shows how different eyes see things.

 

I actually tipped Manure foe the title after seeing him in the euros. First time I really took notice of him in the euros.

My thoughts were, in my god I hope they don't get him.

 

Closest player to Viera, since Viera.

Wins tackles, holds onto the ball, commands the ball, gets tackled......Then somehow still comes out with the ball?

 

Think he can become one of the best.

 

But he's not Gana though is he.

He had am average euros playing out of position. He's a box to box cm, Kante should have been dm (sorry Steve).

 

He turns the ball over and scores bangs. He's got a Balotelli nonchalance were he's that good football is too easy. Technique is superb, but lacks the conviction to be world class like say Scholes.

[Paddock]

Doesn't say who'd sell more shirts either

I didn't say that made a difference either. The question was "would you swap them" and I said shirstvsales alone would sway me never mind how much better Pogba is.

[Paddock]

What's the logic behind the "Pogba would sell a lot more shirts" argument btw? Are people saying that hoards of Frenchmen would suddenly become Evertonians or that all current Evertonians would rush out and get another shirt?

 

Personally I don't buy either argument, we'd sell a few more but with the amount of money in the game now from other sources the effect on our overall income would be negligible; certainly wouldn't be enough to even cover his wages.

No, did it mean hoards of Swedes bought Ibrahamovic shirts when his sales went past 50 million in Utd shirts?

 

Big money players sell shirts that's an absolute fact.

[Paddock]

dont forget that extra shirt sales are irrelevant due to the Kitbag deal

If we sold as many shirts as he would sell we could buy out the deal.

 

The shirt thing is irrelevant to the original question. I asked Mike a totally unrelated question which was "would you swap them" (the players not the shirts before some fucker chimes in with that, and Pogbas shirt sales alone would make the swap worth while never mind the fact Pogba is a MUCH better player.

 

If anyone seriously thinks Gueye is better than Pogba then I give up I really do because only an Everton fan would think that and in a debate of 1000 neutral football fans the one person saying that would be laughed out the room by all the others because he clearly isn't.

 

There's a reason why one has played for Juve then Utd and the other Villa and Everton and it's agulf in class. Forget the price tags, shirt sales or what colour undies he wears on Fridays. Pogba is miles better.

[johnh]

One of the problems of bringing a 'big name' in is that managers' try to build the team around them, eg Rooney. Give me a good player who can 'fit in' any time. I am happy with Gueye who fits in perfectly.

[Paddock]

One of the problems of bringing a 'big name' in is that managers' try to build the team around them, eg Rooney. Give me a good player who can 'fit in' any time. I am happy with Gueye who fits in perfectly.

I didn't say I was unhappy with him either John, I'm thrilled with him but the answer to the question is Pogba and Stones for me.

[MikeO]

No, did it mean hoards of Swedes bought Ibrahamovic shirts when his sales went past 50 million in Utd shirts?

 

Big money players sell shirts that's an absolute fact.

 

United probably sell 50/100 times more shirts than us globally (that's probably conservative) so the difference between the sale of Ibra/United shirts v potential Everton/Pogba shirts is astronomical. Big money players do sell shirts, not disagreeing with that, and if it was a big money player in a Doncaster shirt they'd make a few quid for sure; but you can't compare the merchandising strength of United v us.

[Paddock]

 

United probably sell 50/100 times more shirts than us globally (that's probably conservative) so the difference between the sale of Ibra/United shirts v potential Everton/Pogba shirts is astronomical. Big money players do sell shirts, not disagreeing with that, and if it was a big money player in a Doncaster shirt they'd make a few quid for sure; but you can't compare the merchandising strength of United v us.

I wasn't I was comparing the fact you assumed it would just be Frenchmen buying the shirt. You implied that only a legion of French people could buy them. Uniteds shirts boomed and were up 100s of thousands when I rahamovic signed. Would they of sold them if he hadn't? Almost definitely not, we wouldn't see nearly as many but we're not nearly as rich so the upturn in shirt sales would be relevant.

[London Blue]

On the subject of Stones and City, I have to say they look the real deal under Pep. I can see them dominating the league and going a long way in the champs league.

 

On the subject of better players, for where we are now and what we need to get to the next level then Gana and Williams are the right choices. They give us dynamism and steel in midfield and stability and experience in defence, this is what we lacked last season and their addition has made us a much better side.

[MikeO]

I wasn't I was comparing the fact you assumed it would just be Frenchmen buying the shirt. You implied that only a legion of French people could buy them.

 

Far from the truth I'm afraid Pad mate, read again. I implied or assumed nothing, I was asking about the logic behind it (and saying that I disagreed with it), you have the wrong end of the (pointed) stick.

 

What's the logic behind the "Pogba would sell a lot more shirts" argument btw? Are people saying that hoards of Frenchmen would suddenly become Evertonians or that all current Evertonians would rush out and get another shirt?

 

 

[Paddock]

 

Far from the truth I'm afraid Pad mate, read again. I implied or assumed nothing, I was asking about the logic behind it (and saying that I disagreed with it), you have the wrong end of the (pointed) stick.

 

 

 

No mate, it's more than both so I've not got the wrong end of nothing. as I've said, Utd shirt sales went through the roof with the Ibra signing. Ours would with a Pogba signing. Granted it wouldn't be as big as Utd but it would still happen. If Utds has gone through the roof signing a Swede, why wouldn't ours signing a Frenchman? Not like we're tapping into a US market ot Asia. The fans are clearly there to buy them in the first place for them to rocket, just their rocket goes to Pluto and ours reaches Saturn but in global scales it's still relevant to an increase in profits from it.

 

You can't say would we have a mass influx of Frenchman or Everton fans buying them is different from an increase of Swedish or Utd fans buying them. It's the same thing. Bothclubs would see an increase just at different ends of the dcale but it's still an increase in line with their respective revenue stream.

[MikeO]

No mate, it's more than both so I've not got the wrong end of nothing. as I've said, Utd shirt sales went through the roof with the Ibra signing. Ours would with a Pogba signing. Granted it wouldn't be as big as Utd but it would still happen. If Utds has gone through the roof signing a Swede, why wouldn't ours signing a Frenchman? Not like we're tapping into a US market ot Asia. The fans are clearly there to buy them in the first place for them to rocket, just their rocket goes to Pluto and ours reaches Saturn but in global scales it's still relevant to an increase in profits from it.

 

You can't say would we have a mass influx of Frenchman or Everton fans buying them is different from an increase of Swedish or Utd fans buying them. It's the same thing. Bothclubs would see an increase just at different ends of the dcale but it's still an increase in line with their respective revenue stream.

 

OK, no point going on with this; as Matt has already said any increase in our shirt sales would profit Kitbag rather than us anyway so a moot point, would do us no good even if you're right.

 

(Which you aren't)

[Paddock]

 

OK, no point going on with this; as Matt has already said any increase in our shirt sales would profit Kitbag rather than us anyway so a moot point, would do us no good even if you're right.

 

(Which you aren't)

I was but we'll leave it at that.

 

I wrote it big as well.

[MikeO]

I was but we'll leave it at that.

 

I wrote it big as well.

 

 

There's no need to shout!

[Cornish Steve]

 

OK, no point going on with this; as Matt has already said any increase in our shirt sales would profit Kitbag rather than us anyway so a moot point, would do us no good even if you're right.

 

(Which you aren't)

 

And any profit would be wiped out when 'Pobag' shirts are recalled.

[barryj]

 

Absolutely love it!

 

"Gueye outperformed Pogba in every category that is worth mentioning for a defensive midfielder. He made more tackles, more interceptions, recovered the ball more frequently overall and made more blocks...Everton might possibly be getting a better defensive midfielder than Pogba for under one-tenth of the price."

That's not all that surprising as Villa hardly ever had the ball last year. Without the ball much more chance to make tackles and interceptions- this is EXACTLY why I hate stats!!

[MikeO]

That's not all that surprising as Villa hardly ever had the ball last year. Without the ball much more chance to make tackles and interceptions- this is EXACTLY why I hate stats!!

 

Statistically 37% of people hate stats, 46% swear by them and 17% are too drunk to give a shit.

[pete0]

That's not all that surprising as Villa hardly ever had the ball last year. Without the ball much more chance to make tackles and interceptions- this is EXACTLY why I hate stats!!

Not true, Haf already posted Villa having a surprising amount of the ball (they just weren't very good with it.. Or without it).

[Hafnia]

That's not all that surprising as Villa hardly ever had the ball last year. Without the ball much more chance to make tackles and interceptions- this is EXACTLY why I hate stats!!

Incorrect. I pointed this out before we signed gueye. Villa had more of the ball than leicester.

 

Ah just seen peteo post.

 

Yep. First thing I looked for to understand the kante stat comparison. Essentially gueye was a more efficient tackler/interceptor. Because kante had more opportunity to win the ball back.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Hafnia

[barryj]

Why are you mentioning Kante? This post is on Pogba and Gueye! Unless you can tell me Juve had less possession than Villa did (which you can't).

[Hafnia]

Why are you mentioning Kante? This post is on Pogba and Gueye! Unless you can tell me Juve had less possession than Villa did (which you can't).

You mentioned villa.... not having the ball. They had 60% possession... more than leicester who won the league. Meaning that gueye had less opportunities to win the ball and kante was the PL feted ball winner.

 

Just putting "context" to stats rather than just stating incorrect facts.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Hafnia

[barryj]

What incorrect stat have I put? Context was Gueye had more opportunities to win the ball back than Pogba.

 

Also if the other 10 players in your team are crap then you'll also have more chance to win the ball as the others won't!

 

Just pointing out the relevant to this thread stats!

[Matt]

To be honest, even if money was no object I would still have chosen Gana over Pogba because the £90m or whatever pricetag is ridiculous, and from what little I've seen of Pogba I've been far from impressed.

[Hafnia]

What incorrect stat have I put? Context was Gueye had more opportunities to win the ball back than Pogba.

 

Also if the other 10 players in your team are crap then you'll also have more chance to win the ball as the others won't!

 

Just pointing out the relevant to this thread stats!

 

You said "villa hardly had the ball last year" - they were 14th in terms of possession in the league with 47% Leicester had something like 44%.

 

Either way if you want to judge purely on what I see Gueye is like a makele/mascherano type player and Pogba is more a Yaya toure (when bothered) type player.

 

Right now I'm more than happy with Gueye, best value for money midfield signing I have seen in a long long time.

 

It would not surprise me to see a Real Madrid bid for him in the summer - that's how good he is.

[Eric]

 

You said "villa hardly had the ball last year" - they were 14th in terms of possession in the league with 47% Leicester had something like 44%.

 

Either way if you want to judge purely on what I see Gueye is like a makele/mascherano type player and Pogba is more a Yaya toure (when bothered) type player.

 

Right now I'm more than happy with Gueye, best value for money midfield signing I have seen in a long long time.

 

It would not surprise me to see a Real Madrid bid for him in the summer - that's how good he is.

Christ. He's played 4 games for us.