General Election/UK Politics

[Hafnia]

11 hours ago, RPG said:

I think you are being more than a little unfair there Mike. Most tory members don't like Sunak because they are still very pro Johnson and see Sunak as the instigator behind the final events of Johnson being forced to resign. Nothing whatsoever to do with skin colour. In fact, the same logic can be said to apply to Sunak becoming PM as you, yourself, applied in your own recent post re Braverman becoming Home Secretary. But I'm sure your objections to Braverman relate to her conduct and are in no way due to the colour of her skin. Exactly the same logic applies for those tory members who don't (or didn't) want Sunak at Number 10.

And every single tory member would still rather have Sunak in Number 10 than Starmer.

Never underestimate that lot.  They went to schools where racism is as rife as the hatred of the working class. 
 

https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/eton-privilege-nurtured-uk-power-structures-systemic-racism-forged-952620

went for a walk with my family the other day in an affluent part of the Wirral. Walked past some ridiculously snooty older walkers, one woman talking absolute shite as to what she did in “the city” in an ott plum gob voice.  
 

then I walked towards a group who blocked a gateway whilst deciding where to go in their “middle class twat” gear, as if they were on an expedition to go up Ben Nevis. I patiently stood for what seemed a minute before acknowledging that I knew they were aware of them blocking off a family of 4 as I clocked their snooty glance by saying “can we just get past?!” ….. the woman who had a pure resting bitch face just rolled her eyes and stepped aside. 
 

forgive me if I seem a bit judgmental, but I just can’t stand pricks like that. And they are the sort who run our country. 

[MikeO]

12 hours ago, RPG said:

I think you are being more than a little unfair there Mike.

And I think you're being very charitable.

[MikeO]

 

[Hafnia]

9 minutes ago, RPG said:

The only remotely racist comments I can find on the subject of Sunak as PM come from Labour MP Nadia Whittome.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1687215/labour-mp-deletes-tweet-rishi-sunak-prime-minister-Asian-representation

Standing by for comments on the Daily Express rather than the actual tweet but I have just seen Starmer interviewed on the matter on BBC News and he was in full on deflection mode, refusing twice to answer the simple question of whether or not he instructed Whittome to delete the tweet.

This from the BBC:

Labour MP in discussions with chief whip over 'Asian representation' tweet

David Wallace Lockhart

BBC political correspondent

UK ParliamentCopyright: UK Parliament

A spokesman for Sir Keir Starmer has said there are "conversations ongoing" between Labour's chief whip and MP Nadia Whittome regarding a tweet that said Rishi Sunak's elevation to prime minister "isn't a win for Asian representation".

The spokesman confirmed the discussions were about issuing an apology for the comments.

Whittome tweeted earlier this week that Rishi Sunak becoming prime minister "isn't a win for Asian representation" due to his wealth and politics. She added "black, white or Asian: if you work for a living, he is not on your side".

The tweet was subsequently deleted. The Labour leader's spokesperson confirmed this afternoon that Nadia Whittome was instructed to take it down.

I don’t see that as being racist. To highlight that a persons policies are not favourable to the other people of their ethnicity isn’t incorrect. 

[MikeO]

39 minutes ago, RPG said:

The only remotely racist comments I can find on the subject of Sunak as PM come from Labour MP Nadia Whittome.

 

I was referring to the tory party rank and file membership; I'd suggest that not all tory voters are racist by any means, but that almost all racists vote tory.

It's an established fact over here now that the extreme right wing has no relevance or presence whatsoever, because the tories have that sector of the electorate covered.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/09/far-right-candidates-perform-dismally-across-uk-elections

[MikeO]

42 minutes ago, RPG said:

The only evidence I know of which tries to link race to the appointment of Sunak came from that Labour tweet. If there is any credible evidence to show tory racism on Sunak I would be happy to see it and consider it.

Right wing racism is a given, the tories are the only right wing party, QED.

Did you look at the link I posted? See and consider it, then perhaps we'll be on a similar page.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/09/far-right-candidates-perform-dismally-across-uk-elections

The tweet by the labour MP was a bit silly, but it was in no way racist.

If you lived in this country and actually had the experience of listening to people on the streets or in the pubs (or the football stadia) you may be better placed to judge.

[KinL]

I dont see why I should be the only one wound up by this obnoxious prick so I'm being generous and sharing it with you lot.

 

[MikeO]

8 hours ago, RPG said:

Specific evidence of tory party members objecting to Sunak on race grounds....

 

[Palfy]

That guy was absolutely racist there can be no doubt of that, and I would agree with him that a huge amount of party members think as he does, after all he communicates with them so who are we to argue. What I also found strange was the presenter saying please don't use the word globalist as many Jewish friends of hers find it racist, sorry that is a word that is frequently used in business by people on a daily basis who harbour no racial hatred. 

[MikeO]

9 hours ago, RPG said:

Do you know the caller's full name?

How would I?

[MikeO]

https://www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/lbc-clip-lowestoft-viral-sangitamyska-racism

[Palfy]

10 minutes ago, MikeO said:

https://www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/lbc-clip-lowestoft-viral-sangitamyska-racism

Hopefully this dispels the argument it was fake or false in someway, that our racially motivated Tory member wasn't a genuine caller, who expressed views which he said many members of the Tory membership held. 

[Palfy]

12 minutes ago, RPG said:

I regret it does not. The comments were undoubtedly racist but that is not the area of uncertainty.

What needs to be cleared up is exactly who this 'Jerry' is and if he really is a card carrying member of the tory party. He certainly doesn't represent the values of any tories I know.

I think we all know it was a genuine caller. But if we are going down the road where everything that is posted now has to come a 100% authenticated stamp of proof given by god knows who, because who can we 100% trust in reality. On your post showing a graph of the anti immigrant responders in Europe is fake news, unless of course you can supply the names and addresses of all the people that made up the figures to produce that graph, obviously you can't that would stupid to expect, so just give one or two, if you can't then in your own views of judging fact from fiction it really wasn't worth posting because you have no evidence to prove it's factually correct. Can you see how silly this is now starting to become. 

[Palfy]

23 minutes ago, RPG said:

There are several issues that are wrongly assumed. The first is that the caller was genuine. The second is that he speaks for most/all tory members - I am sure he does not even if he is what he claims, the chart I supplied came from a professionally peer reviewed article in 2021, people far more qualified to verify its authenticity than you or I, fourth is that I am not alleging that this 'Jerry' is false (I don't have the evidence) but neither is he conclusively proven to be what he claims. A pinch of salt is therefore required.

If he is what he claims, then the opinions he expressed are his alone and are definitely not representative (as he wrongly claims) of wider tory party membership.

It is always tempting to jump on one comment from one (thus far) anonymous person and claim it is representative of a whole group when it suits an agenda. I don't think any progress for any party can come from such an attitude and it is, sadly, symptomatic only of declining standards across the board in society. The majority of the electorate in the UK I am sure are decent, hard working (given the chance) people of all political persuasions. It therefore follows that the same will be true of mainstream political party memberships and this would obviously include Conservative and Labour.

I am all for free speech but it can be used and abused to present a narrative which is not accurate and to manipulate the gullible.

That's fine you saying it was by a professionally peer reviewed article, can show the evidence of how the figures were calculated, and the conclusions of the professional peers and their research investigations to show it was proven to be factual, sorry for being a pain but I'm not happy that the conclusions are correct, and want to see the evidence that led them to their conclusions.  

[MikeO]

On 27/10/2022 at 04:17, RPG said:

...your 'given' is actually just a left wing, agenda driven, opinion Mike.

Knew there was something else I wanted to address. 

You're quite wrong there and making a false assumption; I'm by no means "left wing", I've never voted Labour in my life (although admittedly I would if I thought such a tactical vote would lead to a Tory loss).

I'm anti right for sure but more than that I just despise the absurd way we do our politics in this country, adversarial bollocks where if you have 400 MPs in your party they all have to go with the whips and toe the line; might as well have 400 robots.

I want PR, I want consensus decisions and sensible discussion; ideally I'd bin the party system completely so people just voted for the person they thought was best for the job based on them as a person rather than the colour of the rosette they were wearing because that's who their mum and dad always voted for.

Somebody else posted something similar a while back but I can't be arsed to check back who it was, give yourself an extra "like" whoever it was

[Matt]

11 hours ago, MikeO said:

Knew there was something else I wanted to address. 

You're quite wrong there and making a false assumption; I'm by no means "left wing", I've never voted Labour in my life (although admittedly I would if I thought such a tactical vote would lead to a Tory loss).

I'm anti right for sure but more than that I just despise the absurd way we do our politics in this country, adversarial bollocks where if you have 400 MPs in your party they all have to go with the whips and toe the line; might as well have 400 robots.

I want PR, I want consensus decisions and sensible discussion; ideally I'd bin the party system completely so people just voted for the person they thought was best for the job based on them as a person rather than the colour of the rosette they were wearing because that's who their mum and dad always voted for.

Somebody else posted something similar a while back but I can't be arsed to check back who it was, give yourself an extra "like" whoever it was

That's the Swiss system. Actually represents the people and gives the people an actual voice. That is democracy. 

[Matt]

 

[Cornish Steve]

On 27/10/2022 at 09:26, Palfy said:

That guy was absolutely racist there can be no doubt of that, and I would agree with him that a huge amount of party members think as he does, after all he communicates with them so who are we to argue. What I also found strange was the presenter saying please don't use the word globalist as many Jewish friends of hers find it racist, sorry that is a word that is frequently used in business by people on a daily basis who harbour no racial hatred. 

Here's an explanation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/the-origins-of-the-globalist-slur/555479/

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Here's an explanation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/the-origins-of-the-globalist-slur/555479/

I knew you would be the right man to ask. 

[MikeO]

 

[MikeO]

Rich bastards all very happy to be told how low/middle earners will be shafted to pay for their party's screw-ups while they carry on being totally unaffected by it...

 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

Rich bastards all very happy to be told how low/middle earners will be shafted to pay for their party's screw-ups while they carry on being totally unaffected by it...

 

What amazes me is the amount of votes they polled in the general election, are there really that many people who think they have so much in common with them, or was it more a Brexit vote which they are now starting to regret. 

[MikeO]

Cruella Braverman....has there ever been a more perfect rhyme? Possibly her parents knew she'd grow up to be scum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63730054

[Bailey]

47 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Cruella Braverman....has there ever been a more perfect rhyme? Possibly her parents knew she'd grow up to be scum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63730054

Her response to the committee just sums up a lot of politicians these days. 

What should be a fairly easy question to answer becomes an exercise of spin and avoidance. Its clear that she doesn't know the answer to start with and that she therefore thinks the actual answer is negative one and she tries to get out of answering the question. How can a secretary of state not know the response to such a basic question, and then upon realising the incredibly valid and important point that is being made, not think that this is something they should look into immediately? 

I absolutely despise Braverman and she is up there with the worst of the worst but too many politicians are like this these days. They have no real grasp of policy or detail. The ones that do, stand out like a sore thumb.

[Bailey]

I have seen a lot of backlash to Wes Streeting's comments on the NHS and the reform that is needed. 

As someone with a close family member who works in the NHS and having needed to use it quite a lot recently I could agree more with most of what he has to say. How he achieves it is a different matter but its good to see a politician try and deal with the problems it faces rather than simply say "here is another X million pounds". 

[MikeO]

 

[Matt]

 

 

[Bailey]

 

 

[StevO]

I’ve stayed out of this thread for a while, it’s bloody depressing, but thought it was the ideal place to say I’m 100% behind the nurses and support them. I hope those in power realise we need nurses a whole lot more than we need MPs. Or maybe they do, and it scares them. 

[Hafnia]

We are lucky that I’ve had payrises and promotions, my wife is a nurse and in the 12 years we had our house her money has gone down in real terms. Her friends are skint, working daft hours, miserable due to awful conditions.  Fully behind the nurses.