Crystal Palace (Away) Saturday Novermber 18th

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Fair enough. I think the quality and balance in the squad is more of a problem than the manager, I just want a decision as I don't think the uncertainty helps at all.
I don't agree about relegation. I think we'd win the Championship by a country mile first time of asking. Not that I'm suggesting I want that of course, everything we do the rest of this season has to be about making sure it doesn't happen. 

110% agree with the comments about the squad being more of an issue than the next manager, whoever takes over has got a massive job on their hands

[Paddock]

It’s the stability that’s needed- if it’s Unsworth then it’s unsworth- I think it’s a massive gamble but regardless of who it is- get it sorted so everyone knows where they are and can work hard.

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

It does matter you can't carry 2 midfielders that show no fight for the game that hardly contribute anything, Davies and Besic would battle win the ball back work there nuts off, which in turn would allow your play makers like Gylfi more freedom to be creative rather than spending all game defending and trying to win the ball back, because the 2 dicks that started are incapable of either. Yeah it matters Bailey it matters a lot.

The problem is bigger than who plays where. Besic is going to be the same loose canon as Gana. Davies has played a fair bit and whilst he would be the first midfielder on my team sheet, a different name on the team sheet isn' going to make enough of a difference. 

As I said before, we don't have a shit squad. Before the league started we expected top 7 with the same players but they haven't performed as a team. Yes we have weaknesses in team e team but not relegation level weaknesses.

[nogs]

12 minutes ago, Paddock said:

It’s the stability that’s needed- if it’s Unsworth then it’s unsworth- I think it’s a massive gamble but regardless of who it is- get it sorted so everyone knows where they are and can work hard.

Amen! 

[Sev]

Good job getting point away no matter how some of you see it.

[Palfy]

35 minutes ago, Paddock said:

It’s the stability that’s needed- if it’s Unsworth then it’s unsworth- I think it’s a massive gamble but regardless of who it is- get it sorted so everyone knows where they are and can work hard.

You could give the job to Mourinho or Pep and if they pick Gana and Schneiderlin together your get the same result, we need a manager who's prepared to change the Koeman madness of the 2 defensive midfielders which ends up being a back 6.

[nyblue23]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You could give the job to Mourinho or Pep and if they pick Gana and Schneiderlin together your get the same result, we need a manager who's prepared to change the Koeman madness of the 2 defensive midfielders which ends up being a back 6.

It's a pretty god awful back 6 if you ask me.

[Bailey]

49 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You could give the job to Mourinho or Pep and if they pick Gana and Schneiderlin together your get the same result, we need a manager who's prepared to change the Koeman madness of the 2 defensive midfielders which ends up being a back 6.

You say this like we didn't play well enough with them in the team last season?

[pete0]

16 minutes ago, Bailey said:

You say this like we didn't play well enough with them in the team last season?

We never. Our best form was with Barry and Davies. 

[Cornish Steve]

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

We never. Our best form was with Barry and Davies. 

Even better form was with Barry and McCarthy. Let's try Davies and McCarthy.

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, Bailey said:

You say this like we didn't play well enough with them in the team last season?

Last season how many league games did they start and finish together I can't remember watching a game thinking they were dynamic together, looking back through my old posts of that season I can see that I was constantly saying with a few others we were terrible with both of them on the pitch, to answer your question on last season I never believed we played really well as a team but we won games which papered over the cracks because when you're winning it's hard to criticise, but the main reason for our ability to play average football ball and win wasn't because of Gana and Schneiderlin's good partnership because that never existed it was because of the goals the strength the pace and the ability to play up front on his own to be isolated and still be a threat of Lukaku which was the main factor of our success last season.

[nogs]

10 hours ago, Bailey said:

You say this like we didn't play well enough with them in the team last season?

I think Lukaku, Barkley and Barry's had a much bigger influence on our form last season. 

And anyway, you can't keep playing people because of last season's form. This season, the pair of them have been very poor, when played together, dreadful. 

[Sideliner]

Everton is playing the worst and ugliest football at the moment since the last Moyes days. The squad is totally unballanced. Too many new players. Too many young and inexperienced players. Too many players with enough skill but too little brains. A captain and a stand-in manager who is not mentally strong enough to handle the crisis we find ourselves in. At this rate we shall certainly  remain strong relegation contenders. We need a clever manager, strong captain, another striker, a proper nr 10 a better left back and changes at defensive mid. Keane is a liability at centre back as well. Effort alone is not enough in this league. It is a miracle that we did not end up with 10 men yesterday.

[Bill]

The seats are awful as well aren't they Sideliner.  Have you ever thought about supporting Tranmere Rovers.

[Bailey]

12 hours ago, pete0 said:

We never. Our best form was with Barry and Davies. 

In order to test your theory I have gone on Squawka and used their performance stats to see if you are correct. They stated that our best performance last season were against Sunderland x 2, Hull, Watford, Palace, Burnley and Southampton.

Watford H ( Davies, Schneiderlin, Gueye) - Score 399

Burnley H (Davies, Gueye, Schneiderlin) - Score 383

Hull H (Schniederlin, Gueye, Davies) - 738

Sunderland H (Gueye, Schneiderlin, Davies) - 404

Palace A (Barkley, Barry, Davies) - 399

Southampton H - (Gueye, Davies, Barkley) 501

Sunderland A (Gueye, Davies, Barkley) 433

 

Barry is only present in one of those games. Gueye and Schneiderlin played in 4 of our top 7 'performances' together (all of which were also alongside Davies).

 

5 hours ago, Palfy said:

Last season how many league games did they start and finish together I can't remember watching a game thinking they were dynamic together, looking back through my old posts of that season I can see that I was constantly saying with a few others we were terrible with both of them on the pitch, to answer your question on last season I never believed we played really well as a team but we won games which papered over the cracks because when you're winning it's hard to criticise, but the main reason for our ability to play average football ball and win wasn't because of Gana and Schneiderlin's good partnership because that never existed it was because of the goals the strength the pace and the ability to play up front on his own to be isolated and still be a threat of Lukaku which was the main factor of our success last season.

Last year everyone was saying Schneiderlin was a Rolls Royce of a player and if there was a worry, it was over Gueye because of his positioning however that was balanced by Schneiderlin and his ability to read the game. Davies then joined those two to bring more dynamism to the side, with Barkley wide and Lukaku up top. I feel like some people are trying to rw-write history. I agree we did paper over the cracks at time last season, but the midfield trio of Schneiderlin, Gueye and Davies would have probably been the highlight of the campaign.

2 hours ago, nogs said:

I think Lukaku, Barkley and Barry's had a much bigger influence on our form last season. 

And anyway, you can't keep playing people because of last season's form. This season, the pair of them have been very poor, when played together, dreadful. 

Barry had very little input on our form last season.

There were plenty of games where Lukaku and Barkley didnt get a kick. They are obviously big improvements on what we have now but we are that shit as a team at the moment I think it would make only a negligible difference if they were in the side. It didnt at this time last year so I dont see why it would now.

Completely agree about the last point, but my arguement is who has been in form? Davies has shown a spark, McCarthy has but he has been injured, Beni looked good but he is still a boy. Besic has looked crap in the glimpses we have seen of him and so has Klaasen. Who else is there?

[Bailey]

 

For anyone who cares, this is our pitiful player position map from this game. #parkthebus

[Palfy]

34 minutes ago, Bill said:

The seats are awful as well aren't they Sideliner.  Have you ever thought about supporting Tranmere Rovers.

Calm down Bill mate that's a bit harsh on Tranmere.

[Bill]

Everything is shit so he might as well slag off the seats as well.

[Palfy]

28 minutes ago, Bailey said:

In order to test your theory I have gone on Squawka and used their performance stats to see if you are correct. They stated that our best performance last season were against Sunderland x 2, Hull, Watford, Palace, Burnley and Southampton.

Watford H ( Davies, Schneiderlin, Gueye) - Score 399

Burnley H (Davies, Gueye, Schneiderlin) - Score 383

Hull H (Schniederlin, Gueye, Davies) - 738

Sunderland H (Gueye, Schneiderlin, Davies) - 404

Palace A (Barkley, Barry, Davies) - 399

Southampton H - (Gueye, Davies, Barkley) 501

Sunderland A (Gueye, Davies, Barkley) 433

 

Barry is only present in one of those games. Gueye and Schneiderlin played in 4 of our top 7 'performances' together (all of which were also alongside Davies).

 

Last year everyone was saying Schneiderlin was a Rolls Royce of a player and if there was a worry, it was over Gueye because of his positioning however that was balanced by Schneiderlin and his ability to read the game. Davies then joined those two to bring more dynamism to the side, with Barkley wide and Lukaku up top. I feel like some people are trying to rw-write history. I agree we did paper over the cracks at time last season, but the midfield trio of Schneiderlin, Gueye and Davies would have probably been the highlight of the campaign.

Barry had very little input on our form last season.

There were plenty of games where Lukaku and Barkley didnt get a kick. They are obviously big improvements on what we have now but we are that shit as a team at the moment I think it would make only a negligible difference if they were in the side. It didnt at this time last year so I dont see why it would now.

Completely agree about the last point, but my arguement is who has been in form? Davies has shown a spark, McCarthy has but he has been injured, Beni looked good but he is still a boy. Besic has looked crap in the glimpses we have seen of him and so has Klaasen. Who else is there?

Besic played a long side Schneiderlin once this season and it looked better than Gana and Schneiderlin, Besic was more forward thinking than Gana could get back at pace when it broke down, he did make some clumsy tackles at times but no more than Gana would make but is energy passing and reading of the game far surpassed Gana, and Schneiderlin looked better for not having Gana crowding his space.

[Bailey]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Besic played a long side Schneiderlin once this season and it looked better than Gana and Schneiderlin, Besic was more forward thinking than Gana could get back at pace when it broke down, he did make some clumsy tackles at times but no more than Gana would make but is energy passing and reading of the game far surpassed Gana, and Schneiderlin looked better for not having Gana crowding his space.

I think Besic and Gana are much of a muchness so I wouldnt mind seeing them play together. I would say Besic is better on the ball but Gana is better at winning the ball back but there isnt much in it.

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I think Besic and Gana are much of a muchness so I wouldnt mind seeing them play together. I would say Besic is better on the ball but Gana is better at winning the ball back but there isnt much in it.

My reason for wanting to see Schneiderlin and Gana as a pairing broken up is because it just isn't working, we all know we need to try something different because what Koeman and yesterday Unsworth see as the obvious team on paper is not working Unsworth needs to be more brave in his team selections the majority of fans would back him to try something different. I would like to see him go for a line up of

Pickford.

Kenny. Williams. Jags. Baines.

Davies. Gylfi. Besic.

Lennon. Niasse. Vlasic.

We need to get away from the usual starters or nothing will change and Bill will lose a tenner.

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

In order to test your theory I have gone on Squawka and used their performance stats to see if you are correct. They stated that our best performance last season were against Sunderland x 2, Hull, Watford, Palace, Burnley and Southampton.

Surprised City isn't included. Football is more complex to be judged purely on stats. Would you not agree City was our best performance.

Take our last run of games when both started to play and it coincides with us going to pot. 

[pete0]

3 hours ago, Bailey said:

Barry had very little input on our form last season.

Explain why we concede so much without him? 

The back four is largely the same, with an improved keeper. We've got a stand in right back, but we're not conceding down the right every week. 

The centre mids are the most vital cogs in the team. In possession they're supposed to transition the ball from defence to attack, ours if anything stifle it. Defensively they should hold their position and funnel the opposition in to the channels and cut the angles. Schneiderlin doesn't stand strong enough but at least tends to be in the right position, whereas Gana doesn't even know what goalside means. 

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

I think Besic and Gana are much of a muchness so I wouldnt mind seeing them play together. I would say Besic is better on the ball but Gana is better at winning the ball back but there isnt much in it.

If Gana was goalside he wouldn't have to make half as many takles or give away silly free kicks for takles from behind. On top of that he only thinks one step so the tackle might be won but the ball is loose so we get punished. 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

My reason for wanting to see Schneiderlin and Gana as a pairing broken up is because it just isn't working, we all know we need to try something different because what Koeman and yesterday Unsworth see as the obvious team on paper is not working Unsworth needs to be more brave in his team selections the majority of fans would back him to try something different. I would like to see him go for a line up of

Pickford.

Kenny. Williams. Jags. Baines.

Davies. Gylfi. Besic.

Lennon. Niasse. Vlasic.

We need to get away from the usual starters or nothing will change and Bill will lose a tenner.

We have tried plenty of combinations and none of them seem to work. As I have said, it is bigger than players. The one thing I would like to see in that central midfield is Davies. He is our most dynamic and creative central player.

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Surprised City isn't included. Football is more complex to be judged purely on stats. Would you not agree City was our best performance.

Take our last run of games when both started to play and it coincides with us going to pot. 

Yeh of course it is Pete I was just using it as a reference point as I doubt we could agree which games were our best. In the City game we basically but away the few chances we had and the didn' put away theirs. I thought we would have scored better, as with the Arsenal game as well. 

 

Imo our worst games last season were pre Xmas, before Schneiderlin signed. In the spell you refer to I didn't think we would lose at home but nor win away. I don' agree that it went to pot then, we were still an effective team.

38 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Explain why we concede so much without him? 

The back four is largely the same, with an improved keeper. We've got a stand in right back, but we're not conceding down the right every week. 

The centre mids are the most vital cogs in the team. In possession they're supposed to transition the ball from defence to attack, ours if anything stifle it. Defensively they should hold their position and funnel the opposition in to the channels and cut the angles. Schneiderlin doesn't stand strong enough but at least tends to be in the right position, whereas Gana doesn't even know what goalside means. 

We were still conceding with him in the team. West Brom are conceding with him now. We are conceding too many as we aren' looking after the ball enough and causing a threat ourselves. We are on the back foot, we aren' pushing up and the structure in midfield was shocking under Koeman and Unsy is only just starting to piece that back together.

33 minutes ago, pete0 said:

If Gana was goalside he wouldn't have to make half as many takles or give away silly free kicks for takles from behind. On top of that he only thinks one step so the tackle might be won but the ball is loose so we get punished. 

Same thing applies to Besic imo

[Shukes]

We used to have a player that looked after the ball but fans hated it. They wanted him to be quicker in releasing it. 

I know there is a big difference in holding onto the ball that bit too long and looking after the ball, but this is where we needed to let Barkley grow and mature. 

Now we treat the ball like a hot potatoe. No one wants the ball as they are scared of making a Ross. When did Football become so scary and nervous racking. It should be an enjoyable sport.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Imo our worst games last season were pre Xmas, before Schneiderlin signed. In the spell you refer to I didn't think we would lose at home but nor win away. I don' agree that it went to pot then, we were still an effective team.

For me the spell before Xmas was when Gana had been found out. He left and Davies come in and we were much better for it. 

Effective is debatable, on paper I'd have expected more points. 

1-1 Man U a (no Schneiderlin) 

4-2 Leicester 

3-1 Burnley 

0-0 West Ham a

3-0 Chelsea a (no Schneiderlin) 

1-0 Swansea a (no Schneiderlin) 

1-0 Watford 

3-1 Arsenal a

I can't remember every performance, but I do remember being very disappointed with the team. 

Without Gana in January we won 3 and drew 1. Poor before he went on international duty, we then had a purple spell, and then went poor when he come back into the team. 

[Matt]

5 hours ago, Bailey said:

 

For anyone who cares, this is our pitiful player position map from this game. #parkthebus

It's a tactic to stop the rot. 4 points from 6, coming from behind, from a team that was in freefall. 

Nothing will change over night, and if we have to play ugly to get some confidence, so be it. 

[Newty82]

5 hours ago, Bailey said:

 

For anyone who cares, this is our pitiful player position map from this game. #parkthebus

At least there is some defintive shape going on!

[Romey 1878]

5 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

At least there is some defintive shape going on!

That’s how bad we’ve been that that is actually a big positive!