West Bromwich Albion (Home) Saturday January 20th

[Newty82]

3 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I’d like to nominate the banning of throw-ins.

I don’t think over watched a side lose possession from a throw-in as us. It’s utterly bizarre. 

Not just me then!

Absolutely hopeless. It's worrying when we can't get these basics right.

[badaids]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

Just need a manager who wants to play football think we've got the players who are capable.

No, we need more than that I think.  Since Martinez went (and he absolutely needed to go), and Koeman cam in we've had three decent managers and not one of them has managed to get even a basic level of defending, motivation, cohesion and formation out of them.  The problems must surely go deeper than the manager.  I don't know what the issue is, but my suspicion is that's Moshiri has caused it as it's happened since he's been here, whatever it is.  Anyway, until it's sorted we'll just limp along like this.

[Bailey]

Winger stats from the game:

 

Walcott - 90 mins

77% pass accuracy - 2 attempted passes in the final 20 yards

1 chance created (the goal)

4 take ons - 1 successful (none in the final third)

4 crosses - 1 successful

1 shot (saved)

1 interception

 

Vlasic - 45 mins

74% pass accuracy - 5 attempted in the final 20 yards

2 chances created

0 take ones

1 failed cross

0 shots

2 interceptions

 

Bolasie - 45 mins

78% pass accuracy - 2 attempted in the final 20 yards

0 chances created

3 take ons (2 successful - 1 in the final third)

2 failed crosses

1 shot (saved)

0 interceptions

 

It makes you wonder why on earth Vlasic was replaced by Bolasie when the former created the joint top chances in the side despite only playing for 45 minutes.

[Bailey]

Midfielders

Schneiderlin - 90 mins

67% Passing - 0 attempted in the final 20 yards (that is shocking for a DM!)

0 chances created

33% tackle success

63% aerial duels won (from 8)

0 interceptions (also shocking)

1 shot (from a corner)

 

McCarthy - 61 mins

75% Passing - 1 attempted in the final 20 yards

1 chance created

100% tackle success

0% aerial duels (from 2)

2 interceptions

 

Siggy - 90 mins

68% passing - 5 attempted in the final 20 yards

2 chances created

0% tackle success (none attempted)

0% aerial duels (none attempted)

1 interception

3 shots (all blocked)

 

I find that shocking from Schneiderlin. It was clear he had an ineffectual game but for a guy that largely passes back or sideways you simply have to be more accurate and as the holding midfielder, you need to win more tackles and make more interceptions. That shows that he is out of position too often in my eyes!

 

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

McCarthy - 61 mins

100% tackle success

They maybe need to look again at the criteria for defining "success".

[Bailey]

Defenders

Martina

25% tackles success

1/1 aerial duels

1 interception

4 clearances

 

Williams

0% tackles (1 attempted)

2/3 aerial duel success

3 interceptions

6 clearances

 

Holgate

50% tackles

4/10 aerial duels

2 interceptions

7 clearances

 

Kenny

0% tackles (none attempted!?)

5/8 aerial duels

4 interceptions

5 clearances

 

Its fairly clear that WBA attacked our right hand side in the air. It probably explains why both Kenny and Holgate had poorer games than normal, especially with Schneiderlin doing such a bad job of shielding them.

 

The one issue with Holgate is his strength which shows in aerial duels. I thought Rondon was able to bully him too easily today and it isnt the first time that has happened.

 

 

 

[Matt]

55 minutes ago, patto said:

It's got absolutely nothing to do with Moshiri he must be gutted the money he has put in.

I’m gutted with the appointments he’s made and way he’s gone about it. It absolutely has something to do with him. 

[Bailey]

Upfront

Tosun

0 shots

70% passing - 1 in the final 20 yards

0 chances created

1 cross - incomplete

1 take on (unsuccessful)

4/8 aerial duels

 

Niasse

1 shot (the goal)

67% passing - 2 in the final 20 yards

1 chance created

0 crosses

0 take ons

0/2 aerial duels

 

Not sure these two are really that comparable but Niasse was clearly more effective, albeit at the stage of the game you would expect that.

 

Its a bit disappointing that we couldn't get Tosun involved in the final 20 yards in almost any capacity.

[markjazzbassist]

22 minutes ago, Matt said:

I’m gutted with the appointments he’s made and way he’s gone about it. It absolutely has something to do with him. 

as am i.  i think MC11 was the first to question moshiri and his ways last year and i admit i thought it was premature.  MC was onto something.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Ffs we are Everton. Whats all the bullshit about wanting failed managers back in?
Martinez lost the plot and got fired, koeman did and got fired, unsworth wasn't good enough, allardyce is a dinosaur. 
Let's worry about getting the right manager in. Did Liverpool start wishing Rogers back after dalglish? No... get the best option for the next appointment not one that wasn't good enough before. 

Spot on

I really do wonder if some of our fans suffer from amnesia at times

[Bailey]

Does anyone actually want one of our previous managers in or are they just comparing scenarios?

[Matt]

11 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

as am i.  i think MC11 was the first to question moshiri and his ways last year and i admit i thought it was premature.  MC was onto something.

There were several of us who were skeptical from the beginning. I know I certainly was. 

Just to reiterate, he’s done a lot of good to be grateful for but what he’s done wrong has been really, really poor. 

[Bailey]

59 minutes ago, Matt said:

There were several of us who were skeptical from the beginning. I know I certainly was. 

Just to reiterate, he’s done a lot of good to be grateful for but what he’s done wrong has been really, really poor. 

I think it's just the desire to be a billy big bollocks. I think he thought it would be easier than it is to close the gap and get into the CL. 

All the press releases he gives are of a man that wants to be the big dog and he doesn't want to be told no by anyone. 

Instead of working from the bottom to the top of what is wrong with the club he has almost tried to paper over the cracks with big money players (and manager) for big fees with the expectation that it will bring success. 

[Bailey]

Just watched the goal (and chances) back for my sins.

Both the chance just before the goal and the goal itself highlight everything wrong with our side.

Walcott loses the ball down the right, Schneiderlin bottles a 50/50 against Rondon, Holgate does what he can pressing the forward and successfully makes the tackle but it breaks to their player, Martina cant do anything about the ball into his man but he does drop off and allow him to turn which he shouldnt do, the ball then goes wide and no-one has tracked, albeit thats partly because we had committed bodies ahead of the ball. It looked like Siggy was closest when he started making his run.

Minutes later, they win a ball in midfield that they shouldnt, Williams presses Rondon a little slower than he should, Siggy barely attempts a tackle, Williams then snaps in but well out of position (just like last week with Jags, albeit Williams is actually close to his man) and Schneiderlin hasnt dropped back into the CB position alongside Holgate but instead leaves him 1 v 1 and sits no mans land. While Siggy is pissing around and Williams is trying to make the tackle, McCarthy is drawn to the ball and leaves his man. The ball breaks to this man, who plays the ball over the top to Rodrigues who has the run on Holgate. The commentator bangs on about Holgate stopping, but he doesnt, he just gets caught watching the ball as the man runs behind him. Normally this is where the other CB would be, I just dont think he fully appreciated the situation, especially as a young CB who has mainly played RB. There is actually a freeze frame where you can see 3 players around Rondon, Schneiderlin on the centre circle marking thin air and Rodrigues in position to make the run behind Holgate.

At a corner we had Kenny marking Rondon!?

At the time that McCarthy broke his leg, it started with Schneiderlin giving the ball away. McCarthy won it back,  laid it off for Scheiderlin who decided to let it run through his legs to where a West Brom player was and then we are out of position again , CB's split, Holgate really deep, Williams pushed up, Holgate gets megged and McCarthy sprints back to make the challenge unfortunately for him.

Another long range effort, this time the WBA player just ghosts past Rooney because he is 1 v 1. We have 6 players between the 18 yard box and the touchline covering a space of 3 of the mown strips (30 yards?). Bolasie hasnt tucked in and if the WBA player looks up, Martina has spectacurly lost his man and they could be through 1 v 1 until Holgate gets back, but this means Martina is now so out of position that Williams cant pass his man on to close down the striker and Martina just sits where he is between the CBs.

The next chance, Kenny tries to knock it past his man when he should be trying to clear, although in fairness he was facing towards his own goal and had no option inside (Schneiderlin well out of position again).

The chance that follows shortly after that. Bolasie tackles himself in his own half, West Brom can counter, Rooney turned too easily but does slow the attack down a little with the help of Bolasie but as a result the WBA full back is now free and whips in a ball to Rondon who is bring nudged all the time by Holgate. I'd want Holgate to be challenging for the ball though.

Another chance in the game starts from Schneiderlin losing a header, Rooney gets to the ball but gives it straight to Rondon, again as a result of when we lost the ball we are out of position, no-one can get close to him and he hits the bar from range.

The final chance is an average header from Holgate which goes into the middle of the park but normally this is where Schneiderlin would be. Holgate has a man so he sticks with the runner, Rooney tries to get back but doesnt, and Williams does his best to close down the strike but doesnt quite get there.

I am actually astonished by how often Schneiderlin was out of position and bottled challenges. He gives the ball away too easily, he doesnt cover the space between the centre backs and considering how much stick has been given out to Gana for the same thing (including from me), this fella should be getting more than both barrels. It was a disgrace and I didn't full appreciate how bad it was in real time.

That midfield has to change dramatically. We turn the ball over far too easily, some of that is just poor decisions but some of that is the lack of options. You watch Fernandinho for City and he is always available for a pass off the back 4, then the two ahead of him are also always available for a pass. That isn'tt because they are world class players, its just because they are intelligent players who WANT the ball. Add to that you have Martina who doesnt want the ball and Siggy didnt really find himself any space as he is easier to mark through the centre and then the only option is to lump it long into Tosun/DCL/Niasse where it mostly comes back just as quickly. If we get turned over before we release the ball forward then we are completely exposed because we have 2 young lads, a LB that shouldnt be on the pitch and a DM that abandons his position. We had better defensive structure and responsibility under Martinez which says an absolute boat load about the shower of shite we watched yesterday.

[xsaint08]

Probably end of next game, possibly Moyes' WestHam can be sitting above up.....

[markjazzbassist]

30 minutes ago, xsaint08 said:

Probably end of next game, possibly Moyes' WestHam can be sitting above up.....

yeah i saw that, he's done a great job there, arnautovic is back to the great player he was for stoke.

[Gwlad]

Great time in the city as always shame the game was disappointing. Side and back passing so negative and we were static, everyone round us was critical. Walcott debut more than satisfactory, energetic and not holding back in giving directions at least in the first half. Cenk prepared to muscle in but no end product. Gutted for McCarthy, he was giving it some before the tackle, never seen Pickford move so fast to signal to the bench. Schneiderlin a headless chicken and Sigurdsson only made a better effort later. Bolasie for Vlasic was a mistake. Being there I got the feeling that the team really don't get that the goal posts are there for a reason. 

[Cornish Steve]

6 hours ago, Bailey said:

I think it's just the desire to be a billy big bollocks. I think he thought it would be easier than it is to close the gap and get into the CL. 

All the press releases he gives are of a man that wants to be the big dog and he doesn't want to be told no by anyone. 

Instead of working from the bottom to the top of what is wrong with the club he has almost tried to paper over the cracks with big money players (and manager) for big fees with the expectation that it will bring success. 

This is the way the uber-rich tend to be. No surprises there.

[Cornish Steve]

5 hours ago, Bailey said:

Just watched the goal (and chances) back for my sins.

Both the chance just before the goal and the goal itself highlight everything wrong with our side.

Walcott loses the ball down the right, Schneiderlin bottles a 50/50 against Rondon, Holgate does what he can pressing the forward and successfully makes the tackle but it breaks to their player, Martina cant do anything about the ball into his man but he does drop off and allow him to turn which he shouldnt do, the ball then goes wide and no-one has tracked, albeit thats partly because we had committed bodies ahead of the ball. It looked like Siggy was closest when he started making his run.

Minutes later, they win a ball in midfield that they shouldnt, Williams presses Rondon a little slower than he should, Siggy barely attempts a tackle, Williams then snaps in but well out of position (just like last week with Jags, albeit Williams is actually close to his man) and Schneiderlin hasnt dropped back into the CB position alongside Holgate but instead leaves him 1 v 1 and sits no mans land. While Siggy is pissing around and Williams is trying to make the tackle, McCarthy is drawn to the ball and leaves his man. The ball breaks to this man, who plays the ball over the top to Rodrigues who has the run on Holgate. The commentator bangs on about Holgate stopping, but he doesnt, he just gets caught watching the ball as the man runs behind him. Normally this is where the other CB would be, I just dont think he fully appreciated the situation, especially as a young CB who has mainly played RB. There is actually a freeze frame where you can see 3 players around Rondon, Schneiderlin on the centre circle marking thin air and Rodrigues in position to make the run behind Holgate.

At a corner we had Kenny marking Rondon!?

At the time that McCarthy broke his leg, it started with Schneiderlin giving the ball away. McCarthy won it back,  laid it off for Scheiderlin who decided to let it run through his legs to where a West Brom player was and then we are out of position again , CB's split, Holgate really deep, Williams pushed up, Holgate gets megged and McCarthy sprints back to make the challenge unfortunately for him.

Another long range effort, this time the WBA player just ghosts past Rooney because he is 1 v 1. We have 6 players between the 18 yard box and the touchline covering a space of 3 of the mown strips (30 yards?). Bolasie hasnt tucked in and if the WBA player looks up, Martina has spectacurly lost his man and they could be through 1 v 1 until Holgate gets back, but this means Martina is now so out of position that Williams cant pass his man on to close down the striker and Martina just sits where he is between the CBs.

The next chance, Kenny tries to knock it past his man when he should be trying to clear, although in fairness he was facing towards his own goal and had no option inside (Schneiderlin well out of position again).

The chance that follows shortly after that. Bolasie tackles himself in his own half, West Brom can counter, Rooney turned too easily but does slow the attack down a little with the help of Bolasie but as a result the WBA full back is now free and whips in a ball to Rondon who is bring nudged all the time by Holgate. I'd want Holgate to be challenging for the ball though.

Another chance in the game starts from Schneiderlin losing a header, Rooney gets to the ball but gives it straight to Rondon, again as a result of when we lost the ball we are out of position, no-one can get close to him and he hits the bar from range.

The final chance is an average header from Holgate which goes into the middle of the park but normally this is where Schneiderlin would be. Holgate has a man so he sticks with the runner, Rooney tries to get back but doesnt, and Williams does his best to close down the strike but doesnt quite get there.

I am actually astonished by how often Schneiderlin was out of position and bottled challenges. He gives the ball away too easily, he doesnt cover the space between the centre backs and considering how much stick has been given out to Gana for the same thing (including from me), this fella should be getting more than both barrels. It was a disgrace and I didn't full appreciate how bad it was in real time.

That midfield has to change dramatically. We turn the ball over far too easily, some of that is just poor decisions but some of that is the lack of options. You watch Fernandinho for City and he is always available for a pass off the back 4, then the two ahead of him are also always available for a pass. That isn'ttttt because they are world class players, its just because they are intelligent players who WANT the ball. Add to that you have Martina who doesnt want the ball and Siggy didnt really find himself any space as he is easier to mark through the centre and then the only option is to lump it long into Tosun/DCL/Niasse where it mostly comes back just as quickly. If we get turned over before we release the ball forward then we are completely exposed because we have 2 young lads, a LB that shouldnt be on the pitch and a DM that abandons his position. We had better defensive structure and responsibility under Martinez which says an absolute boat load about the shower of shite we watched yesterday.

Good post.

Only one manager this season has spotted the disastrous situation in our midfield (especially before McCarthy returned) and that's Unsworth. This is why, to our surprise, he brought Beni into the first team - who did well until Crooked Sam dropped him almost right away. Beni needs a run of games. McCarthy out compounds our problem. If only we could bring Dowell back.

[Bill]

Don't see how it upsets our midfield, Gana, Schneiderlin, Davies, Besic, Klassen, Rooney, Ziggy, and as you said Benni, they can all play mid. It's just a case of getting them to play well.

[xsaint08]

7 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah i saw that, he's done a great job there, arnautovic is back to the great player he was for stoke.

Indeed...I kinda miss the type of team Moyes had it here. The team that fought for each other, the team that fought toll final whistle..To be fair, Moyes did not have the funds available to build the team he really wanted,and yet, he made every players punch above their weights, eg Cahill,Arteta, ... He was a class! He made players with average capability shine,, eg thomas gravesen, lee carsley ... and that is a sign of someone who knows about player management...do i miss him at Everton? Yes!