Blue Bill's shiny new stadium at the docks...

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

[RuffRob]

I have read that the 'All' bar season packages will cost between £3k and £4k. Not sure how true that is, but that would work out between £170 and £210 based on 19 home games. If correct, probabley looking at 10% more on an individual game basis. 

As others have said clubs been crying out at ways to maximise revenue during a match day's and nobody is going to be obliged to utilise it and spend big. If you have a thousand or so paying around £200 for an added value experience per game, it all adds to the clubs revenue pot.  

With matchday capacity increasing by around 14,000 then there is plenty of room to use a decent percentage of these seats to maximise revenue from those who would be more than happy to pay. 

For decades our gorund has been behind the times when it comes to hospitaility revenue. Looks like we can be trailblazers with the new ground. A facility that has the potential to maximise revenue far beyond EFC home football games as well. 

[RuffRob]

roughly how many seat do people think there will be available in 'All' bars?

[Palfy]

I will be making use of corporate packages 2 times a season if I’m still in the country, or alive. I have plenty of clients who are Arsenal and Chelsea supporters, so as long as they are weekend games, a table for 6 at the match and a night out after the game with a decent hotel to retire to, should get me a few Brownie points   

[StevO]

I’d be very surprised if there are many, if any, hospitality places available by the time we move. The sales team have been on it for about six months already, with another 18 to go. With what’s on offer I think the whole lot will be sold pretty soon. 
 

3 hours ago, RuffRob said:

roughly how many seat do people think there will be available in 'All' bars?

Looking at the size of the seating sections it’s going to be a couple of thousand at least. I’d suspect there will be more of the bar packages available in Bramley-Moore than all of the hospitality we have at Goodison. Plus the thousands of corporate hospitality places available. 
 

It’s a game changer for the club. 

[RuffRob]

https://www.everton.news/incredible-principal-lead-for-evertons-new-stadium-has-just-made-really-exciting-claim-live-on-sky/

So increased capacity of around 13,000 and around 4000 'All' seats - 

say 500 'dinning' package at around £8000 (£4M) - pure guess on price

and 3500 bar package at around £3000 (£10.5M)

9000 ordinary seat as season ticket price of say £700 - (£6.3M)

some very crude sums and can quick see extra £20M season or around £1M generated per match day.

That's without considering an inevatable increase in ticket prices. 

Any revenue gained for none Everton events could be significant, becasue this stadium has probably been better designed and built that any other as a large capacity 'Entertainmenting venue' with multi purpose use in mind. I go to a lot of music concerts and the VIP packages you now see on offer seem to be big and more frequent all the time. With Everton Stadium being purpose built for this, then inevitably it means more revenue for artists, promoters and venue owners. You imagine our new stadium would have to be at the top of promoters lists as the venue of choice. 

With regard to naming rights this stadium will go beyond advertisement in the relms of football. Lets how we don't sell them cheap or lock in to too long a deal.

Naming rights is a massive deal financially and with a takeover potentially weeks away (and current owner all but out the door) - you would think a naming riights deal is fully aligned with 777.

 

[Matt]

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

https://www.everton.news/incredible-principal-lead-for-evertons-new-stadium-has-just-made-really-exciting-claim-live-on-sky/

So increased capacity of around 13,000 and around 4000 'All' seats - 

say 500 'dinning' package at around £8000 (£4M) - pure guess on price

and 3500 bar package at around £3000 (£10.5M)

9000 ordinary seat as season ticket price of say £700 - (£6.3M)

some very crude sums and can quick see extra £20M season or around £1M generated per match day.

That's without considering an inevatable increase in ticket prices. 

Any revenue gained for none Everton events could be significant, becasue this stadium has probably been better designed and built that any other as a large capacity 'Entertainmenting venue' with multi purpose use in mind. I go to a lot of music concerts and the VIP packages you now see on offer seem to be big and more frequent all the time. With Everton Stadium being purpose built for this, then inevitably it means more revenue for artists, promoters and venue owners. You imagine our new stadium would have to be at the top of promoters lists as the venue of choice. 

With regard to naming rights this stadium will go beyond advertisement in the relms of football. Lets how we don't sell them cheap or lock in to too long a deal.

Naming rights is a massive deal financially and with a takeover potentially weeks away (and current owner all but out the door) - you would think a naming riights deal is fully aligned with 777.

 

Pretty sure the design is football first. Events will be a bonus but the design of the stadium was designed primarily as a football first stadium. But I get the point. It won't just be in the fancy places where we will see an increase of revenue. Just the idea that there's going to be time and space to get a pie and a pint at halftime will lead to a big increase in custom too.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://youtu.be/zcNF6WP3W64?si=Xt_vH_Ikg8gi1D9j

[StevO]

On 15/02/2024 at 11:17, RuffRob said:

https://www.everton.news/incredible-principal-lead-for-evertons-new-stadium-has-just-made-really-exciting-claim-live-on-sky/

So increased capacity of around 13,000 and around 4000 'All' seats - 

say 500 'dinning' package at around £8000 (£4M) - pure guess on price

and 3500 bar package at around £3000 (£10.5M)

9000 ordinary seat as season ticket price of say £700 - (£6.3M)

some very crude sums and can quick see extra £20M season or around £1M generated per match day.

That's without considering an inevatable increase in ticket prices. 

Any revenue gained for none Everton events could be significant, becasue this stadium has probably been better designed and built that any other as a large capacity 'Entertainmenting venue' with multi purpose use in mind. I go to a lot of music concerts and the VIP packages you now see on offer seem to be big and more frequent all the time. With Everton Stadium being purpose built for this, then inevitably it means more revenue for artists, promoters and venue owners. You imagine our new stadium would have to be at the top of promoters lists as the venue of choice. 

With regard to naming rights this stadium will go beyond advertisement in the relms of football. Lets how we don't sell them cheap or lock in to too long a deal.

Naming rights is a massive deal financially and with a takeover potentially weeks away (and current owner all but out the door) - you would think a naming riights deal is fully aligned with 777.

 

Nice summary Rob. 
 

Regards to the naming rights and the length of the deal. They are looking for a long term deal from the update a few days ago.  

I guess from the sponsors point of view if it’s locked in for 10/15 years it gives a stronger branding. 
Can anyone tell me where Bolton play? It’s the Reebok stadium right? But Reebok haven’t been the sponsor for about ten years. 
 

Anyone remember City playing at The City of Manchester Stadium? 
Or Arsenal calling the Emirates Ashburton Grove?

Maybe this is why clubs give them a shit forgettable name like Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, and why we are building Everton Stadium rather than Bramley Moore Dock Stadium or something that might stick after we get a sponsor. 
 

Im rambling. 

[StevO]

On 15/02/2024 at 13:33, Matt said:

Pretty sure the design is football first. Events will be a bonus but the design of the stadium was designed primarily as a football first stadium. But I get the point. It won't just be in the fancy places where we will see an increase of revenue. Just the idea that there's going to be time and space to get a pie and a pint at halftime will lead to a big increase in custom too.

Yeah, it’s a football stadium. It’s just got features to help for the other 340 or so days per year. 
I’d love to see a return of the Liverpool summer pops and host it on the fan plaza, with maybe a big headline show to close, which could be on the pitch. 
 

Rugby’s magic weekend would be perfect for it too. Moving to Leeds this year. We should be pushing, hopefully we already are, for 2027 on wards. I wouldn’t do anything on the pitch in 2026 as after a year of football I’m sure the ground staff will want to see how the pitch has reacted and make future plans for the surface. 

[Palfy]

43 minutes ago, StevO said:

Nice summary Rob. 
 

Regards to the naming rights and the length of the deal. They are looking for a long term deal from the update a few days ago.  

I guess from the sponsors point of view if it’s locked in for 10/15 years it gives a stronger branding. 
Can anyone tell me where Bolton play? It’s the Reebok stadium right? But Reebok haven’t been the sponsor for about ten years. 
 

Anyone remember City playing at The City of Manchester Stadium? 
Or Arsenal calling the Emirates Ashburton Grove?

Maybe this is why clubs give them a shit forgettable name like Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, and why we are building Everton Stadium rather than Bramley Moore Dock Stadium or something that might stick after we get a sponsor. 
 

Im rambling. 

Ramble on mate it’s still interesting to read people’s views

[RuffRob]

Liverpool is a great city and I just think Everton are making the very best of the location in which our new stadium is going to be located. It could quite easliy become one if not the very best large capacity venues in the country.

If the statidum is set up to extract maximum revenue for 50,000 people in attendance, be it Everton supporters on 20 odd match days (those who want to and are happy to spend) or AC/DC fans et al on an evening in July, it will all introduce an much needed additional revenue stream to the club.   

The stadium seem to be the one thing the club are getting right, from location, the design, the fans buy in to the project all the way through to the commercial nouse in its development. 

[StevO]

Who wouldn’t love to be at an AC/DC gig at Bramley Moore in the summer!

That would be amazing!!

[Romey 1878]

11 minutes ago, StevO said:

Who wouldn’t love to be at an AC/DC gig at Bramley Moore in the summer!

That would be amazing!!

It'll cost you the best part of £350 for a standing ticket .

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

It'll cost you the best part of £350 for a standing ticket .

I’m hoping I watch it for free, on a drone flyers YouTube channel.

[Palfy]

I would rather Deep Purple and they could do Everton on the water a fire in the sky, okay maybe not

[StevO]

For those interested, the concrete “bowl” inside the stadium was completed yesterday afternoon. 
 

A really cool photo was posted by the club on Twitter, here…

 

[MikeO]

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-confirm-real-cost-32216717

[Romey 1878]

13 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-confirm-real-cost-32216717

Wasn't it Denise that crowed on about how amazing it was that we'd locked the price in?

Has anyone hired her yet by the way?  

[Palfy]

There was no way that the price was going to be locked, with materials going up 30-50% when the project was being negotiated. 

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Wasn't it Denise that crowed on about how amazing it was that we'd locked the price in?

Has anyone hired her yet by the way?  

Yeah, locked in with Laing. There was no way the whole lot would be. 
 

Does my head in when the £500m figure gets thrown around to sound like we’re massively over budget. 
We spent £100m before anything was even above ground. 
Even Moshiri was talking about £760m last year. 

Peel probably wanted a bit of money to get the lease of the land sorted, Dan Meis didn’t do it for free either. 

[RuffRob]

I think it may have been the 'construction' cost that had been locked in. I  am sure they would have been a variation allowed for inflation in material cost. For a project of this scale and the world we currently find ourseles, no contractor would have taken on that level of risk. In all honesty, had we actaully locked the Contractor in to a fixed price and them taking the financial hit on rise in materials, give the amount they have gone up, it could well have sent them and many of their specialist sub contractors in to administation, so we would still have a significant debt and a half or three quater stadium build, load of corners cut by the Contractor, and no Contracotors about with knowledge of getting it finished.

Materials might be costing a bit more, but everybody will be getting fairly paid, and we will end up with a top no corners cut job.

Laing Construction all but went bust on the construction of Wale's Millenium statium at the end of the 90's and Laings where taken over by O'Roukes on the back of that project.  They will not make that mistake again.

 

[Shukes]

The project would have a 60% profit margin at least. They have plenty of room for Inflation.

For anyone trying to understand construction costs, you should go and price pre-fabricated concrete costs. You will question how any build could possibly cost half a billion.

I remember Buckingham palace rewrite costing 175 million. I could have knocked the whole palace down and rebuilt ten of them for that price.

[Palfy]

14 hours ago, Shukes said:

The project would have a 60% profit margin at least. They have plenty of room for Inflation.

For anyone trying to understand construction costs, you should go and price pre-fabricated concrete costs. You will question how any build could possibly cost half a billion.

I remember Buckingham palace rewrite costing 175 million. I could have knocked the whole palace down and rebuilt ten of them for that price.

Shukes you are out by about by miles mate, let’s say the stadium finishes at 800 million and Laings make 60% profit that’s 460 million. 
Laings will make between 8-10% after there Pre-lims have been taken out, which is in the region of 8-10 million EBIT. 

[Shukes]

8 hours ago, Palfy said:

Shukes you are out by about by miles mate, let’s say the stadium finishes at 800 million and Laings make 60% profit that’s 460 million. 
Laings will make between 8-10% after there Pre-lims have been taken out, which is in the region of 8-10 million EBIT. 

If they do then they are a really poorly run business.

You should he aiming for a minimum of 40% profit which would result in around a 12% net. Anything less would be classed as struggling by any reputable accountancy. 
 

Laings are definitely not struggling.

And don’t be fooled by money paying people that aren’t needed at all. Laings are huge. They have so many administrative posts that are not really needed but help line pockets to keep Corp tax down. It’s easy to fool people into believing things cost a fortune. 
 

a lightbulb for the NHS costs about 15 times as much as we pay ourselves. Is that because it’s a special lightbulb? No it’s because it takes twelve people to order that lightbulb.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

If they do then they are a really poorly run business.

You should he aiming for a minimum of 40% profit which would result in around a 12% net. Anything less would be classed as struggling by any reputable accountancy. 
 

Laings are definitely not struggling.

And don’t be fooled by money paying people that aren’t needed at all. Laings are huge. They have so many administrative posts that are not really needed but help line pockets to keep Corp tax down. It’s easy to fool people into believing things cost a fortune. 
 

a lightbulb for the NHS costs about 15 times as much as we pay ourselves. Is that because it’s a special lightbulb? No it’s because it takes twelve people to order that lightbulb.

Here’s the last 3 years of Laing O’Rourke accounts. 
2023 turnover £3.6B  Loss £288M

2022 turnover £3.1B   Profit £2.7M

2021  turnover £2.6.   Profit £41.0M

2020. turnover £2.5.   Profit  £46.0M

Laing are the largest construction company in Europe with offices in the Middle East and Australia, where they deliver some of the biggest projects in those countries. 
They explain the biggest reason for their loss in 2023 was the higher than expected rate of material costs, and the increase in labour costs, added by fixed rate contracts on 2 contracts neither which was Bramley more which isn’t fixed as touted by the club to try and make DBB look competent as the CEO. 
You are right about the NHS but remember they are not PLC trying to deliver profits for their shareholders. 
Looking at their Profits and I put 2020 in because in was their best performing year for many years, it doesn’t read any where near your assumptions. 
I would guess that they go in at tender stage of about 20-25% gross on average, and after over heads would be happy with 4-5% net profit and would be ecstatic with anything over that. 
Shukes mate get your CV off to them  if you can deliver them the margins you believe they should be making, they'd make you Commercial Director in an instant

[Newty82]

....tax avoidance is why mega sized companies don't seem to make as much profit as we would believe.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

....tax avoidance is why mega sized companies don't seem to make as much profit as we would believe.

I wouldn’t say that Newty most PLC companies would want to make as much profits as they can, it’s good for their shareholders and allows for dividends to be paid out, and makes sure CEO gets his big bonuses, and he isn’t voted off the board by disgruntled shareholders. 
To avoid tax they register their companies in tax havens, the sooner G20 stop this nonsense the fairer societies will become to all who pay and have paid taxes in the country they live in, and companies pay taxes were there profits were made. 

[Newty82]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I wouldn’t say that Newty most PLC companies would want to make as much profits as they can, it’s good for their shareholders and allows for dividends to be paid out, and makes sure CEO gets his big bonuses, and he isn’t voted off the board by disgruntled shareholders. 
To avoid tax they register their companies in tax havens, the sooner G20 stop this nonsense the fairer societies will become to all who pay and have paid taxes in the country they live in, and companies pay taxes were there profits were made. 

100% agree with the sentiment of what you're saying.

But I'll still say that PLCs will do all they can to pay as little tax as possible.

That's just business.