Rennes

[Palfy]

I remember a game when Schneiderlin and Besic started together, and it worked Schneiderlin held and Besic had the freer role they quickly established a good understanding, everyone of us could have told Silva that Gana and Schneiderlin doesn't work.

And rather try to develop the Besic Schneiderlin duo Besic gets shipped out.

[c1982]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

How on earth has Coleman escaped any criticism for their goals? Both down his side of the pitch and he's absolutely nowhere to be seen  

Yep, he was poor!

Was he being exposed having Sandro ahead? He certainly wasn’t getting any cover from Gueye or Schneiderlin - we’re just so easy to expose from every angle!!!

[pete0]

25 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Yep, he was poor!

Was he being exposed having Sandro ahead? He certainly wasn’t getting any cover from Gueye or Schneiderlin - we’re just so easy to expose from every angle!!!

Jags covered for him for the second goal just not very well, and with Gana half heartedly chasing back to cover Jags. 

[Hafnia]

Too many players are present who have been part of something poor.  A massive cull is needed. 

[DavisJD]

Have watched a couple of different 15minute highlights now of the game.

Granted it’s only highlights, but this pre-season has confirmed one thing for me.

Schneiderlin has to be sold.

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, DavisJD said:

Have watched a couple of different 15minute highlights now of the game.

Granted it’s only highlights, but this pre-season has confirmed one thing for me.

Schneiderlin has to be sold.

Who's going to want to pay him the sort of money he is on.

[nogs]

Not looking great is it. I just don't get why he's still playing Keane and Schneiderlin he must be able to see already what happens when they start. 

[Paddock]

22 minutes ago, nogs said:

Not looking great is it. I just don't get why he's still playing Keane and Schneiderlin he must be able to see already what happens when they start. 

Who does he play over Keane though- Williams? As Pennington is even worse and Holgates injured. Davies never performs to oust Schneiderlin either, Besic isn’t good enough. God, we are so fucked we really are.

[pete0]

8 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Who does he play over Keane though- Williams? As Pennington is even worse and Holgates injured. Davies never performs to oust Schneiderlin either, Besic isn’t good enough. God, we are so fucked we really are.

I'd say Pennington is slightly better. Both are slow but at least he's got some mental strength. Keane is the biggest pansy ever. Said it at the time other than being tall what the fuck is he better at than Holgate? Walsh should have been sacked on the spot for spunking £30m on him. 

Speaking of mentality, something intangible that won't show up on the money ball fools stats, would any of this new lot have been signed by Moyes? Gana, Keane, and Schneiderlin haven't got a bit of bite between them. 

[Paddock]

1 minute ago, pete0 said:

I'd say Pennington is slightly better. Both are slow but at least he's got some mental strength. Keane is the biggest pansy ever. Said it at the time other than being tall what the fuck is he better at than Holgate? Walsh should have been sacked on the spot for spunking £30m on him. 

Pennington is not good enough Pete, as bad as Keane is he is better than Pennington. Keane doesn’t fit into the way we play- why they signed him knowing his style baffles me but so does everything Koeman and Walsh done. It’s like a pair of working class people winning a million pounds on a scratch card and buying 4 Ferraris and 3 Aston Martins- they only needed one, the other 6 are pretty much pointless.

[pete0]

10 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Pennington is not good enough Pete, as bad as Keane is he is better than Pennington. Keane doesn’t fit into the way we play- why they signed him knowing his style baffles me but so does everything Koeman and Walsh done. It’s like a pair of working class people winning a million pounds on a scratch card and buying 4 Ferraris and 3 Aston Martins- they only needed one, the other 6 are pretty much pointless.

I'm not saying either are any good, both turn too slow for this level, but at least Pennington will get stuck in. The likes of Schneiderlin, Gana, and Keane don't have a good enough mentality and lose a lot of battles they should be winning. They have no conviction when trying to win the ball, just put their foot in and hope for the best. 

Pennington was just the first name, I'd play any of the kids over Keane. Other than height I don't see anything positive to his game, how slow he moves gives everything away about what he's about to do so he gets rinsed everytime it's embarrassing watching him. 

[Palfy]

56 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Moshiri has to take that one on the chin. This is his first time in charge of a Premier League club rather than being a bit part player on the board of Arsenal.

It was he who wanted to bring in Koeman at all costs and trusted both him and Walsh with the disastrous transfers. 

If Moshiri has any gumption then he must know that he has to take a hit on players like Schneiderlin who are not fit for purpose.

The problem now is that players like Schneiderlin and Keane have a losing mentality. Just look at the enthusiasm in Richarlison compared to the rest of them. He wants to break into the Brazil team and believes Everton will give him the platform to do so.

Buying players like Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson etc who are approaching 30 and have no resale value is a fools errand.

I agree he should personally pay for his poor decisions, but he’s an accountant and loss and profit will rule his decisions not common footballing sense, by the way he wasn’t on the Arsenal board he was a shareholder who sold his shares because for years they refused him a place on the board, it all makes sense now lucky escape for them, he’s been the one consistent in our downfall since he arrived. 

[Paddock]

1 minute ago, pete0 said:

I'm not saying either are any good, both turn too slow for this level, but at least Pennington will get stuck in. The likes of Schneiderlin, Gana, and Keane don't have a good enough mentality and lose a lot of battles they should be winning. They have no conviction when trying to win the ball, just put their foot in and hope for the best. 

So where do we go from here then- who plays on their place because we are just as bad no matter who plays, that’s my point. We are shit all over the park- Pickfords ok, Coleman,  Richarlson (hopefully) Sigguardson (maybe) that’s it, there is nothing else there Pete.

[Bailey]

Lets not lose sight that this is preseason. Players might look like they are in a starting 11 but its not necessarily going to be the case. Dont forget that Gana and Siggy need minutes too. Jags might look like his legs have gone but he might have had a hard session in the morning etc. 

[Bill]

10 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Pennington is not good enough Pete, as bad as Keane is he is better than Pennington. Keane doesn’t fit into the way we play- why they signed him knowing his style baffles me but so does everything Koeman and Walsh done. It’s like a pair of working class people winning a million pounds on a scratch card and buying 4 Ferraris and 3 Aston Martins- they only needed one, the other 6 are pretty much pointless.

How difficult is it.....  if a ball comes into the area you head clear, if someone runs at you one on one you put in a tackle or block a shot,  how would he play in any other system.  !!  Don't try and complicate it because central defender is possibly the easiest position to play.

[Paddock]

12 minutes ago, Bill said:

How difficult is it.....  if a ball comes into the area you head clear, if someone runs at you one on one you put in a tackle or block a shot,  how would he play in any other system.  !!  Don't try and complicate it because central defender is possibly the easiest position to play.

We play a statem where our full back bomb on which means we are susceptible to quick counter attacks which means your cb need to be mobile, agile and quick or powerful and quick- he’s neither, he also has poor positional play. He was great for Burnley in a flat back 4 with 2 blocks of four in a 442 type formation where he isn’t exposed.

[pete0]

16 minutes ago, Paddock said:

So where do we go from here then- who plays on their place because we are just as bad no matter who plays, that’s my point. We are shit all over the park- Pickfords ok, Coleman,  Richarlson (hopefully) Sigguardson (maybe) that’s it, there is nothing else there Pete.

I agree the team is a shambles, said it yesterday we could easily get rid of 6 of them and use kids instead. 

Pickford/???

Coleman/Kenny

Holgate/???

???/Williams or Jags

???/Baines

Richarlison/Mirallas/Lookman 

???/Besic

McCarthy/Davies 

Walcott/Vlasic 

Sigurdssen/Dowell

Tosun/Niasse/DCL

 

With Holgate and McCarthy being injured we're two first team players down and on top of that we need to add three first team players. It's a fucking mess 

 

 

 

 

[pete0]

Just thinking back Unsworth said Browning was the toughest to get past one on one. Given how we play and that Keane is getting danced around maybe Browning would do a better job. Genuinely think you could grab any centre half from the Sunday league and they'd do no worse than Keane. 

Don't know how I'm gonna cope watching Keane, Gana and Sandro. 

[Palfy]

19 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Just thinking back Unsworth said Browning was the toughest to get past one on one. Given how we play and that Keane is getting danced around maybe Browning would do a better job. Genuinely think you could grab any centre half from the Sunday league and they'd do no worse than Keane. 

Don't know how I'm gonna cope watching Keane, Gana and Sandro. 

Hopefully we won’t have to for very long  

[nogs]

1 hour ago, Paddock said:

Who does he play over Keane though- Williams? As Pennington is even worse and Holgates injured. Davies never performs to oust Schneiderlin either, Besic isn’t good enough. God, we are so fucked we really are.

Yeah I agree. If he's preparing for the worst case scenario of having to play Jags, Keane and Schneiderlin come the first match then we really are fucked. But at this stage I would say Keane and Schneiderlin in particular have stood out as worst offenders in a shit team for so long you simply have to play someone else. Klaassen was quickly singled out as not being good enough, why should those two players get away with poor performance after poor performance? He must surely be hoping to replace them, so what does it matter if you try out a few kids in those positions? 

[nogs]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Just thinking back Unsworth said Browning was the toughest to get past one on one. Given how we play and that Keane is getting danced around maybe Browning would do a better job. Genuinely think you could grab any centre half from the Sunday league and they'd do no worse than Keane. 

Don't know how I'm gonna cope watching Keane, Gana and Sandro. 

Browning and Galloway may not have progressed as expected but surely they must be worth another look given our other CB options. Its a shame Feeny just had knee surgery too, he'd probably have got some playing time preseason. 

[Paddock]

We should never have let Mori flgo- he’s way better than anything we have.

[Shukes]

Holgate performed well 1 v 1s. Remember him against the shite, he shackled Salah for most of the match when everyone thought he would be slaughtered. He also has a bit of pace as well.

thinking of systems, Coleman has been used almost as a sweeper because of his pace and effort, but pre season we have pushed him higher and kept him there. This is where these gaping holes are coming through.

[markjazzbassist]

Glad I’ve missed pre season so far, I hope the Valencia match gets a proper lineup and some effort.

[Shukes]

2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Glad I’ve missed pre season so far, I hope the Valencia match gets a proper lineup and some effort.

You missed some good performances, I thought Blackburn in particular were efficient.

[Bailey]

This first example is a great example of how crap we defended.

Jags has come out of the line to slow the player with the ball which is risk because it has left us 2 v 3 with Baines out of position but Gana is back there too. Keane is in a great position. From that position, we look OK, the spare man is on Baines' side but that is also the most difficult pass. Schneiderlin is square on.

A second later. Jags has positioned himself to stop the pass to the spare man, Schneiderlin is still square on and has no idea where his man is and Keane is in the process of trying to play offside by the looks of things instead of running with the man.

Due to Schneiderlin's positioning he cant react to the through ball and Keane has ended up the wrong side of the defender despite being in the perfect position to start with. Baines is still nowhere near his man. Gana hasn't looked at the danger at the back post.

They now have loads of space wide, Keane is actually getting himself back into a decent position. Baines is still trying to get back into position. Gana is still watching it all unfold. This still shows the difference in mentality between Jags and Gana. Jags has facing forward in the first still, slowing the attack whereas Gana was facing goal yet in this still Jags has been able to turn and get back more towards goal than Gana has who is not only miles quicker, has been facing the right direction the whole time.

It require too much data to post any more stills but essentially Keane misses the opportunity to clear (because he has the agility of a hippo), Baines does actually get back in and stops the first guy in the middle scoring, but a player not in shot comes in, chased by Richarlison with Gana still wandering aimlessly.

[Bailey]

All goals can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1h3iEhu78A

Goal 2 starts with Jags in possession and he plays a ball inside to Schneiderlin. Everyone else is actually in a great position. Jags is in the RB position, Gana RCB, Keane LCB, Baines pushed forward. Siggy/Sandro is a 5 yard pass away and Richarlison is in space too ahead of him. Schneiderlin has a defender 5 yards from him but he is in a great position because he has so many options. Jags incidentally is waiving the ball back to either Gana or Stek.

Schneiderlin takes a touch, defender now upon him and tries to play the ball back to Jags which gets intercepted. Jags again does really well to not get taken out of the game and he tracks the run of the interceptor. The ball is passed inside, right next to Schneiderlin who gets easily pushed off (1.17-1.19) which is quite frankly pathetic, you should really watch it. He should be hacking him down, giving a free kick away and allowing us to get organised. The ball goes wide to what would have been Jags' man, but Schneiderlin follows him and ignores the man behind him and Jags is then caught in no mans land, with a runner breaking on him. Gana still at CB doesnt know what he is doing so doesn't cover behind Jags anywhere near quick enough leaving the attacker time and space to play the ball into the box. The scorer peels off Keane who again misses his clearance from being in a good position. I repeat, he has the agility of a hippo.

[Bailey]

In terms of our goal, its brilliant by Richarlison although Siggy plays an underrated one two in the build up.

[Shukes]

This all shows that Jags is STILL our best defender.... and he’s 36.... that’s how bad the rest are.

[Bailey]

http://footyroom.com/matches/79955548/rennes-vs-everton/review

A slightly better highlights package.

I hadn't seen the chance of theirs 60 minutes in live (8.56 in on the video). Keane beaten in the air (easily), Gana sucked in to make it 4 of ours around 1 of theirs but he skips past both him and Baines. Jags pulled across because Keane is mesmerised and the gap between Jags and Coleman is half the pitch. Schneiderlin being the donkey he is just watches the ball too, doesn't drop into the space and their player just runs behind him into the space. What is even more disappointing is that after the chance, no-one is starting the inquest. No one seems to care that they just sliced through us.

Their 3rd goal is the exact type of goal we will concede a lot of this season if we don't get new players in. Baines' underplays a pass as he is being tackled of which he takes a knock taking him out of the game. The player that intercepts the pass plays a long ball along the ground to the CF. Keane is about 4 or 5 yards off him, not putting in a challenge nor holding his position. Schneiderlin is covering the left back spot which is good. The CF Keane left, plays a nice first touch ball down the left channel, Schneiderlin is covering the player initially but the other guy is too quick for him which leave him 1 v 1 with Stek. To his credit Jags almost gets there on the cover and getting closer than Schneiderlin despite giving the latter a big advantage in momentum.

4th goal, Davies plays a ball into Mirallas that he is calling for. I don't think it is the smartest ball because he is being marked but Mirallas thinks he can do something with it. Coleman is free for a one touch pass on the right. Mirallas wants to try and turn and losses the ball. Davies tries to help out but ultimately sells himself creating another counter attack but we have a 3 v 2 advantage at this stage but the CF strides past Keane and Jags, brushing off Jags in the process. Keane is the covering defender in that situation and he should be seeing to it. He makes a big effort to get narrow but in doing that he doesn't cover the space behind Jags. The striker shouldnt be scoring from that angle though, its not as if it hits the side netting, there is no curve so Stek should be questioned.

Looking through these goals has just proven to me that Jags is actually still playing at a high level, albeit he has been shoved off the ball twice in 2 games which is a concern. He is streets ahead of Keane. He needs a partner and I am not sure him and Holgate are the ideal pairing as they aren't the biggest or strongest. It has to be worth a go though and Holgate did show a knack for winning headers when he was given a run.

Baines still actually has the pace to get up and down the wing. The second video shows a longer picture and the acceleration from Baines to get involved is really impressive for that first goal. You also see him check the attacker in front and behind, so he was positioning himself perfectly to be able to get back in for the player closest to goal.

Questions were raised of Coleman for the first two goals but in the second video you can see that he was the most advanced player in the first goal and he had made a forward run for Jags for the second. I would attach no blame to him whatsoever. We want him to get forward and on both occasions the ball was down his side.

Schneiderlin is trying to do the right things. He is getting into position but he isn'ttt quick enough or strong enough to effect the attack. He isn'ttt aggressive enough either. I don't see how he is going to improve enough for the new season because its the same thing as last season. He isn'ttt doing what we need on the ball either. He is putting people under pressure with his passing and shitting himself when he has the ball which is the opposite of what you would expect from a player in that position. They need to be in control.

Gana is the opposite to Schneiderlin. He has the speed, he is more aggressive but equally as weak. Gana on the other hand just doesn't appreciate developing situations at all. I expect him to sharpen up a bit as he gets his match sharpness back but we know from seasons gone by that its his glaring weakness. I don't see how that would fit into Silva's plans.