Manchester City (Away) Saturday December 15th

[Finn balor]

14 minutes ago, Bailey said:

The defensive line is the most regimented part of the side, even in dealing with situations like that. They cant practice that exact situation obviously but they will do things to replicate that scenario. If I remember rightly you see Digne moving to where he should be and then he switches off. Its a combined mistake because Zouma and Keane dont cover themselves in glory, there is no midfield in support and then the rest is well documented.

Much like the goal before it, which really isn'ttt that dissimilar with Keane and Mina (Zouma has moved out of his zone, Keane moves forward and Mina doesnt cover Jesus).

I have no idea how you can say zonal marking is a waste of time, thats up there with the most ridiculous things I have heard on here. Formations are built upon zonal marking. I presume you just prefer players chasing after others no matter where they go on the pitch?

Pundits just said how’s sterling on his own in the box? Watch it again. There is one man in the box Mina just leaves him

[pete0]

Shocking game, we just rolled over. Didn't even make them work hard for the goals and no idea what our game plan was. Why would you gift city so much space. Pickford has a great kick on him so why play short to the centre halves and leave a huge gap from defence to midfield. 

Defence had no cover from midfield, not helped by Sigurdssen playing out of position and the midfield have one less player. Defence had the extra man but never played 3 together before so there was a few mix ups in each others space and tracking the wrong man (or not at all for the last goal). Nothing in attack as the defence were so deep and the midfield couldn't keep hold of the ball. All on the manager this game, beaten before we even kicked the ball. 

[Sibdane]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Shocking game, we just rolled over. Didn't even make them work hard for the goals and no idea what our game plan was. Why would you gift city so much space. Pickford has a great kick on him so why play short to the centre halves and leave a huge gap from defence to midfield. 

Defence had no cover from midfield, not helped by Sigurdssen playing out of position and the midfield have one less player. Defence had the extra man but never played 3 together before so there was a few mix ups in each others space and tracking the wrong man (or not at all for the last goal). Nothing in attack as the defence were so deep and the midfield couldn't keep hold of the ball. All on the manager this game, beaten before we even kicked the ball. 

We missed Gana. 

[wolf8312]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Shocking game, we just rolled over. Didn't even make them work hard for the goals and no idea what our game plan was. Why would you gift city so much space. Pickford has a great kick on him so why play short to the centre halves and leave a huge gap from defence to midfield. 

Defence had no cover from midfield, not helped by Sigurdssen playing out of position and the midfield have one less player. Defence had the extra man but never played 3 together before so there was a few mix ups in each others space and tracking the wrong man (or not at all for the last goal). Nothing in attack as the defence were so deep and the midfield couldn't keep hold of the ball. All on the manager this game, beaten before we even kicked the ball. 

No, not the managers fault! We were playing Man City away, which is an extremely difficult proposition for any team, let alone ours, which let's be honest, is limited, especially in attack.

We played some good football today, and we created enough chances to have drawn level, but you have to take your chances.

For most of the first half I honestly thought we were the better team! City were disjointed, and we did seem to have a game plan, which was indeed based around sitting deep, and hitting them on the counter. But IMO that's pretty much what you should do (or all you can do) against such a potent attacking opposition, and obviously it all breaks down big time, if your strikers don't take their chances.

It's really not the managers fault that we have no center forwards. We played deep, because we were playing man city, and had we gone all out, they would no doubt have fooking murdered us!

People really need to temper expectations or else frustrate themselves. We haven't really got the quality just yet, but there are many players in that team starting to shine. Manager has really made vast improvements, but we have no strikers, no finish...

We got into the top six a few weeks ago, and suddenly expectations went through the roof again, which really isn'tt a good thing IMO. We need to keep our feet on the ground.

I don't think if you asked the city players about how Everton played today, they would be quite so negative. We played as well as we did against Liverpool IMO (a game of which I thought we received more praise than we actually deserved) with the main difference being that City took their chances, whereas liverpool (mane) fluffed theirs (we also fluffed ours)!

We didn't make it easy for them today, but really Man city away? Losing 3-1 was no great shock was it?

[nogs]

<Wolf - there's no real surprise we lost to the best team in the league, but the truth is City weren't quite on it and we had a chance to take something from the game. The decision to play 3 at the back was wrong and guess what, we defended poorly. We created some great chances, but we've not been clinical enough all season. It's not the one point v Liverpool and Man City that hurts us. It's the draws v Newcastle and Watford. Got to face facts, form has dipped and it's on the manager to find an answer. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, wolf8312 said:

No, not the managers fault! We were playing Man City away, which is an extremely difficult proposition for any team, let alone ours, which let's be honest, is limited, especially in attack.

We played some good football today, and we created enough chances to have drawn level, but you have to take your chances.

For most of the first half I honestly thought we were the better team! City were disjointed, and we did seem to have a game plan, which was indeed based around sitting deep, and hitting them on the counter. But IMO that's pretty much what you should do (or all you can do) against such a potent attacking opposition, and obviously it all breaks down big time, if your strikers don't take their chances.

It's really not the managers fault that we have no center forwards. We played deep, because we were playing man city, and had we gone all out, they would no doubt have fooking murdered us!

People really need to temper expectations or else frustrate themselves. We haven't really got the quality just yet, but there are many players in that team starting to shine. Manager has really made vast improvements, but we have no strikers, no finish...

We got into the top six a few weeks ago, and suddenly expectations went through the roof again, which really isn'ttt a good thing IMO. We need to keep our feet on the ground.

I don't think if you asked the city players about how Everton played today, they would be quite so negative. We played as well as we did against Liverpool IMO (a game of which I thought we received more praise than we actually deserved) with the main difference being that City took their chances, whereas liverpool (mane) fluffed theirs (we also fluffed ours)!

We didn't make it easy for them today, but really Man city away? Losing 3-1 was no great shock was it?

We put up a fight with Liverpool. City didn't even have to get out of first gear, after DCL scored they just ran up the other end and got another, at no point were they ever scared of dropping points in the match today. 

Just because were playing city doesn't justify conceding three goals as easy as that. We weren't deep through choice, we just couldn't keep hold of the ball due to the poor choice of set up and tactics. It's not just against city we've struggled to keep clean sheets against Newcastle and Watford, and struggled the other end as we aren't shifting the ball fast enough. The football was stale the last 2 games and today was a terrible mess from the manager. 

[chicagoblue]

3 at the back was a disaster, not at all aided by out failure to come to terms with the battle in central midfield.

Mina was awful for the first two and Zouma went to sleep for the third.

 

Gylfi didn't get close to them. I think he can do that job against let opposition but today we needed Gana (or Davies?).

 

Richarlison needed to do better today.

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, wolf8312 said:

No, not the managers fault! We were playing Man City away, which is an extremely difficult proposition for any team, let alone ours, which let's be honest, is limited, especially in attack.

We played some good football today, and we created enough chances to have drawn level, but you have to take your chances.

For most of the first half I honestly thought we were the better team! City were disjointed, and we did seem to have a game plan, which was indeed based around sitting deep, and hitting them on the counter. But IMO that's pretty much what you should do (or all you can do) against such a potent attacking opposition, and obviously it all breaks down big time, if your strikers don't take their chances.

It's really not the managers fault that we have no center forwards. We played deep, because we were playing man city, and had we gone all out, they would no doubt have fooking murdered us!

People really need to temper expectations or else frustrate themselves. We haven't really got the quality just yet, but there are many players in that team starting to shine. Manager has really made vast improvements, but we have no strikers, no finish...

We got into the top six a few weeks ago, and suddenly expectations went through the roof again, which really isn'ttt a good thing IMO. We need to keep our feet on the ground.

I don't think if you asked the city players about how Everton played today, they would be quite so negative. We played as well as we did against Liverpool IMO (a game of which I thought we received more praise than we actually deserved) with the main difference being that City took their chances, whereas liverpool (mane) fluffed theirs (we also fluffed ours)!

We didn't make it easy for them today, but really Man city away? Losing 3-1 was no great shock was it?

Good post, stick around and post more

[wolf8312]

29 minutes ago, pete0 said:

We put up a fight with Liverpool. City didn't even have to get out of first gear, after DCL scored they just ran up the other end and got another, at no point were they ever scared of dropping points in the match today. 

Just because were playing city doesn't justify conceding three goals as easy as that. We weren't deep through choice, we just couldn't keep hold of the ball due to the poor choice of set up and tactics. It's not just against city we've struggled to keep clean sheets against Newcastle and Watford, and struggled the other end as we aren't shifting the ball fast enough. The football was stale the last 2 games and today was a terrible mess from the manager. 

You say the tactics are wrong, what tactics would you have used yourself?

Liverpool could easily have beaten us by the same or a higher scoreline. They missed alot of easy chances, and our defence was in that game, stretched just as much as it was today. We battled in that game, but the indivdual mistakes were if anything higher than today. We also created (and f*ckin spooned) just as many chances! Watford, yep we fell to pieces, but they were fired up for that game, and many people predicted a difficult game there! I never saw the newcastle game...

But what I am really saying is, of course there are problems with this team! This is not me declaring how great we are, my point is get used to it, because realistically we ain't that good, and that isn'tt the managers fault, you just cannot expect the squad we presently have to compete with the likes of City or Liverpool.

Go to war with the army we have, not with the one we would like to have, or for some strange reason, ever since investment, believe we have. Good god man you're an evertonian! We lose, that's our thing!

Seriously though, do you not think we have improved since last season, and the one before? What more can we really hope for?

Personally I see a team that is fighting, and for the moment behind the manager, playing some nice football, though lacking quality in the final third, and making costly individual errors.

Please god not another witch hunt against the manager, because if that happens yet again, I fear we will never escape the cursed cycle! There is nowhere to go this time! 

[DownUnderToff]

I understand what you're saying @wolf8312, but saying (in hindsight) the tactics didn't work doesn't have to be a manager Witch Hunt.  Just that something was tried, didn't work, and you move on.  Silva is still a young (for a coach) and learning, he'll make some mistakes and that's ok.

We're playing so much better, and more attractive, than last year, having been far more organised at the back as well.  Kudos Silva and Brands.

Against Man City, 5 at the back and conceding the midfield clearly didn't work.  We had one (clear-cut and fluffed) opportunity in the first half, that's just flat out not creating enough and a big part of that has to be down to the structure.  They had far too much time on the ball, able to shift the play and pick passes at will.  Getting some balance back in the midfield allowed us to at least get forward a bit more...so we could fluff more chances.

[pete0]

4 hours ago, wolf8312 said:

You say the tactics are wrong, what tactics would you have used yourself?

Liverpool could easily have beaten us by the same or a higher scoreline. They missed alot of easy chances, and our defence was in that game, stretched just as much as it was today. We battled in that game, but the indivdual mistakes were if anything higher than today. We also created (and f*ckin spooned) just as many chances! Watford, yep we fell to pieces, but they were fired up for that game, and many people predicted a difficult game there! I never saw the newcastle game...

But what I am really saying is, of course there are problems with this team! This is not me declaring how great we are, my point is get used to it, because realistically we ain't that good, and that isn'ttt the managers fault, you just cannot expect the squad we presently have to compete with the likes of City or Liverpool.

Go to war with the army we have, not with the one we would like to have, or for some strange reason, ever since investment, believe we have. Good god man you're an evertonian! We lose, that's our thing!

Seriously though, do you not think we have improved since last season, and the one before? What more can we really hope for?

Personally I see a team that is fighting, and for the moment behind the manager, playing some nice football, though lacking quality in the final third, and making costly individual errors.

Please god not another witch hunt against the manager, because if that happens yet again, I fear we will never escape the cursed cycle! There is nowhere to go this time! 

451, no messing about and none of that short ball crap from goal kicks that leaves you exposed. Started Walcott and Davies. 

We started today with two players out of position and a defence that has never played in a back 3 together. 

We created chances because city knew they had the match won. At no point did we look like getting any points from that game whereas other than a Shaqiri sitter we looked like getting a point until the last minute. 

Newcastle and Watford was pathetic. Almost like watching a team playing a friendly, no umpft. Sam Allardyce would have got more out of the last three games. 

Why shouldn't we give them a game? To use your words go to war, have a go at them and you might get something. Defend for your life you might get a point. Roll over and get your belly tickled you get nothing which is what we did against city. I don't see how any one can be happy with that performance, it was a shambles and the two games before were lacklustre. It feels very Martinez, Marco needs to give his philosophy a wobble and get back to the basics. 

Better than last year but that's not differcult. That's not the bar I hold Everton at. 1 away win this season, right back is knackered, midfield is lacking and no seasoned striker. 

Today wasn't about the final third, the defense let in three howlers! And there was very little game plan getting the ball moving forward. 

Silva like any manager gets credit where its due like bringing in Richarlison. But atm the honeymoon looks over and he needs to shake it up. 

[AlbanyNYToffee]

The game was over when Richarlison missed the first half opportunity. Need to convert your chances against top 6, especially away, double especially when it’s still 0-0. 

5 at the back is suicide against city. They crush in midfield. Gomes and Sigurdsson alone in the middle...seriously?

Played well overall just such soft goals to concede. Still light years ahead of where we were 365 days ago. Even 180 for that matter. 

Lookman has to start. Has to. 

Love Coleman and it’s not his fault as his leg literally snapped in half but he is just not the same player and I finally realize he will never be. Time to look for cover.

[Romey 1878]

The only thing, and I mean the only thing, I can take from this game is that this 3 at the back shit needs to fuck off. Stop playing it, stop trying it. We cannot do it. Just stop it. I can't keep watching it.

[Sibdane]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

The only thing, and I mean the only thing, I can take from this game is that this 3 at the back shit needs to fuck off. Stop playing it, stop trying it. We cannot do it. Just stop it. I can't keep watching it.

When I saw three at the back I just shook my head. We need a striker and fast. DCL may have gotten a goal, but it was fortunate that it deflected off Delph. 

There's no doubt we've improved; however, we're lacking in a few key positions to hit the next level (RB, ST, RW, depth). 

I'm not exactly worried where we finish this season although the dreamer in me hopes for top 6. Silva will need January and this upcoming summer to get his preferred squad. 

[Finn balor]

We need a striker, right back and a centre midfielder. Get vlasic back and hopefully Henry and get shut of the dross 

[Finn balor]

We say it every week but you need to take your chances. Against Arsenal, United, Liverpool and city we had chances to take the lead and thus in turn makes them different games if you have a lead to hold onto. The change of formation definitely didn’t help but if Charly bags that first one we have our tails up. Marco must be pulling his hair out with the chances going begging. A striker is a must in January or the summer for a proper push to top four 

[Palfy]

Surrender the midfield in the fashion we did against a team like City and your going to get a mauling, and 2 in the middle against Spurs and it will be the same result. 

[Bailey]

On 15/12/2018 at 14:41, Finn balor said:

I’m taking about zonal marking from set pieces not from open play. As a six foot 3/4 centre half you cannot allow sterling to have a free header near the six yard box. Sterling was his man end of. Stay touch tight not wander off him expecting a “phantom” ball to the near post. 

The goal was in open play.

On 15/12/2018 at 14:49, Finn balor said:

Pundits just said how’s sterling on his own in the box? Watch it again. There is one man in the box Mina just leaves him

I know he shouldnt have been as Digbe should have been his man. 

As I said before, its the same for the 2nd goal. Keane clears front post header, Zouma covering behind him (Mina out of play), ball gets recycled and Zouma pushes out, Keane covers the front post, Mina doesnt follow and neither does Digne. I presume you blame Keane for that one?

Later on, Gundogan breaks, ball goes wide (Mina out), Keane goes front post and covers the angle stopping the clear shot on goal, Zouma doesnt track and there are two clear players in the box. That move from Keane saves a certain goal.

For the 3rd. Fernandinho has it wide, Keane out of the game, Zouma tracking Fernandino. Gundogan edge of the box front post. Mina on the penalty spot, Sterling 2 yards behind him, Digne isnt tight enough, Siggy / Gomes covering no-one. Fernandinho gets to the byline, Mina perfect position, Gomes also moves near post, Digne stops. Watch it back, its actually awful. He only reacts when the ball is in the air. Watching it again, Mina goes from a great position to getting slightly too far near post when the balls comes in and does get underneath it but Digne should be there all day. Its massively on him, he should be there.

If you watch the game back there are lots of examples where the back 5 are on completely different wavelengths. Even in the example of the goal, Gomes should recognise that there is a CB out of action and drop in. They just werent used to doing what they were being asked to do, part due to the tactics (partly due to 5 at the back, then reverting to the 4 and no DM) and also because we were up against City.