Dele

[Romey 1878]

6 hours ago, RPG said:

Maybe it's a generational/standards issue with me but my view is that the moment he stepped onto Goodison Park dressed like a sack of shit tied up with string, he did disrespect the club and the fans. If he didn't fancy a suit and tie then an Everton track suit and trainers would've been fine.

To be fair, its a football wide issue and by no means confined to Alli. But if you give guys who have little or nothing between their ears more money than they can sensibly spend there is no wonder they start to behave as they do. Doesn't make it right or appropriate though imho. They should be setting a good example as role models, not making a spectacle of themselves.

Dress smart, think smart, play smart. Donny vd Beek set the perfect example, has a similar lack of recent playing time yet was streets ahead of Alli at Newcastle.

Standing by to get flamed but my opinion won't change.

He dressed no 'worse' than DCL and Tom Davies do on a regular basis.

It's fashion for these lads, RPG. I wouldn't wear anything that I've seen these lads wearing but I don't see them as disrespecting the club when they do.

When I was there on Saturday and Alli (and VDB) stepped out on to the pitch the last thing I was thinking about was what they were wearing. I think it's a bit ridiculous that based on his clothing he's having judgements made about his character. People that wear suits are just as capable of being knob heads.

[Hafnia]

6 hours ago, RPG said:

Maybe it's a generational/standards issue with me but my view is that the moment he stepped onto Goodison Park dressed like a sack of shit tied up with string, he did disrespect the club and the fans. If he didn't fancy a suit and tie then an Everton track suit and trainers would've been fine.

To be fair, its a football wide issue and by no means confined to Alli. But if you give guys who have little or nothing between their ears more money than they can sensibly spend there is no wonder they start to behave as they do. Doesn't make it right or appropriate though imho. They should be setting a good example as role models, not making a spectacle of themselves.

Dress smart, think smart, play smart. Donny vd Beek set the perfect example, has a similar lack of recent playing time yet was streets ahead of Alli at Newcastle.

Standing by to get flamed but my opinion won't change.

Just so you know.... mykolenko was presented on the pitch wearing a pair of scruffy grey jeans with an everton shirt thrown on, mcgeady was the same, jelavic had jeans and a donkey jacket with a hood, niasse was wearing jeans with an everton shirt thrown on.... 

 

Its ridiculous and targetted.  We need to get behind Alli

[Hafnia]

7 minutes ago, RPG said:

It is the fashion and what Tom, DCL and Alli wear in their own time is entirely their business. But they are not on their own time when walking on Goodison Park and being introduced to their new fans for the very first time. That is where the professional error of judgement took place imho. I'll support Alli on the pitch (because I support Everton) but at a personal level I think he disrespected the club and the fans. Maybe he was poorly advised or not advised at all but if that's what role models look like nowadays then God help the next generation.

but can you explain why other players who have been presented on the pitch wearing jeans and trainers never got scrutinised?  Mykolenko was wearing scruffy jeans and looked like a pitch invader..... have they analysed what car mykolenko drives too?

[Romey 1878]

9 minutes ago, RPG said:

It is the fashion and what Tom, DCL and Alli wear in their own time is entirely their business. But they are not on their own time when walking on Goodison Park and being introduced to their new fans for the very first time. That is where the professional error of judgement took place imho. I'll support Alli on the pitch (because I support Everton) but at a personal level I think he disrespected the club and the fans. Maybe he was poorly advised or not advised at all but if that's what role models look like nowadays then God help the next generation.

Genuinely perplexed that anyone feels the club and fans have been disrespected because of what he was wearing. He could have come on to the pitch on Saturday dressed in a tutu for all I care. As long as he represents the club well when he's actually playing for us on that pitch then I really don't see the problem.

The whole reason for them coming on to the pitch at half-time was for us, the fans, to welcome them to the club. Nothing else.

[Hafnia]

Just now, RPG said:

I would have thought that, given the amount of money they get paid that they could each afford a decent tailor.

But you do raise a fair point. I have stated previously that I wasn't trying to single Alli out as it is, indeed, a widespread phenomenon in modern football, but I do stand by my comments for any professional who disrespects the club and fans in that manner. If they don't fancy a suit and tie (which is fair enough) then Everton track suit and trainers please.

I guess it is a generational/standards thing but I'd prefer to be a luddite stick in the mud on this particular issue rather than compromise my own standards.

How would you feel about a doctor or an airline pilot who showed up dressed like that while on duty? It's not so very different.

"on duty" - they weren't on duty.  They weren't part of the match day squad, Tom Davies was in the stand and wasn't wearing a suit.  I dont get where you are coming from.

[Hafnia]

16 minutes ago, RPG said:

If he knew he was going to be presented/introduced to the fans and that he was going to walk on the pitch at Goodison Park then imho he was on duty.

The bigger issue here, again imho, is not so much that he did it but that the club allowed him to do it. I guess I'm the odd one out here (so I will reluctantly defer to the majority view and bow out as gracefully as I can) but I can't see Howard Kendall or Joe Royle accepting that in the '80's and '90's. Times and standards have obviously changed - and so have the fortunes of Everton FC.

you are allowing yourself to be drawn into judging Alli based on the media targeting him.......  why didn't the media point out mykolenko?  

why are the media all over him for choosing to play on his PS5 or whatever it is.... he has had a rolls royce for a few years now - he drove up from London to sign in it and went to training in it the next day - what is the problem???  Its not like he was giving it the instagram and taking selfies of him posing in it.

what was your thoughts of James taking a selfie on his private jet?

 

[StevO]

7 hours ago, RPG said:

Maybe it's a generational/standards issue with me but my view is that the moment he stepped onto Goodison Park dressed like a sack of shit tied up with string, he did disrespect the club and the fans. If he didn't fancy a suit and tie then an Everton track suit and trainers would've been fine.

To be fair, its a football wide issue and by no means confined to Alli. But if you give guys who have little or nothing between their ears more money than they can sensibly spend there is no wonder they start to behave as they do. Doesn't make it right or appropriate though imho. They should be setting a good example as role models, not making a spectacle of themselves.

Dress smart, think smart, play smart. Donny vd Beek set the perfect example, has a similar lack of recent playing time yet was streets ahead of Alli at Newcastle.

Standing by to get flamed but my opinion won't change.

This kind of thing annoys the hell out of me. It’s massively judgemental. If he turned up in dirty clothes I could understand it, mud on his jeans or something. But the lad has turned up in an outfit he is comfortable in, probably cost more than most of us earn in a month, and it’s seen as disrespectful to the club. 
He didn’t set a bad example, he wasn’t a bad role model and he didn’t make a spectacle of himself. 
The only difference between Alli and Van De Beek was that Donny had a long overcoat on. He was still wearing jeans and trainers, just like Dele was. 
 

I actually find this post a whole lot more disrespectful than the clothes a footballer had on. 
 

In the last few weeks we’ve heard live recordings of a footballer rape his girlfriend, we’ve seen videos of a footballer abusing his cat. But fuck me, Dele Alli wore a bomber jacket and some baggy jeans. Let’s be mad at Dele. 

[StevO]

53 minutes ago, RPG said:

How would you feel about a doctor or an airline pilot who showed up dressed like that while on duty? It's not so very different.

Not so different? He kicks a fucking ball. 
To make it clear, a doctor and pilot have a uniform when they are on duty. As do footballers. If they are not in uniform it’s safe to say they are not on duty. 

[StevO]

Why do our role models have to wear a suit? 
There are so many layers of wrong that this screams out to me. But that’s a path I do not want to go down. But this is some deep rooted, out of touch bullshit. 
 

My dad only ever wore a suit at weddings and funerals, and the occasional day out at the races, he’s 72 now and is still the same. I saw him come home wearing jeans covered in oil almost every day growing up as a child. Maybe he wasn’t setting a good example and being a poor role model for me. Absolute bullshit. 

[Hafnia]

2 minutes ago, RPG said:

The media brought it to my attention. I formed my own opinions from there.

yes - the media like to bring young black footballers to the attention of the public, sterling for one.  How dare they buy their mums houses.... yet Harry Maguire got treated with kid gloves after assaulting a police man in mykonos

[Matt]

I remember being told I couldn't go to HQ because I didn't have a tie on with my suit. I went anyway and when I was asked where it was, I explained that my tie was having a lie in at home and that I did all the work anyway. 

The work ethic and results are the important part, not the presentation unless you work in a graphical industry. 

[Hafnia]

Just now, RPG said:

Nothing racial in it at all. I just think he's an idiot. Idiots come in all shapes, sizes and colours - Mcguire being a prime example.

so Dele Alli is an idiot because he was under dressed on the pitch but over-stated going to training.......

Yeah the more I think about this the more I think this is victimisation.

 

[Hafnia]

2 minutes ago, RPG said:

We had a '5 minute early' rule for all parades and meetings when I was going through my military training. I once got into trouble for being 2 minutes late for being 5 minutes early! It was all part of the fun then, didn't do me any harm and kept everyone on their toes.

yes and lampard has strict rules and fines for time keeping, mobile phones and other things the detract from the players being present...........  the players are held to account in that regard.  Im sure if lampard had a rule that players must wear blazers on match days etc then Dele would have been wearing one.

[Hafnia]

2 minutes ago, RPG said:

No, it's (from where I'm coming from at any rate) just a question of his judgement. A bit too much of the 'flash harry' on day one at what is supposed to be the people's club. I don't know Alli at all but apparently he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I therefore think he has been poorly advised or not advised at all.

apparently he's not the sharpest knife in the draw???  

well factually he had the misfortune of seeing his parents divorce at 3, lived in nigeria and then his dad sent him back to his mum who was addicted to alcohol and unable to look after him so he was put into social services and had to live with foster parents...... yet he had the drive and determination the make a career in the game.

ffs, use google if you want to find out about a person. 

 

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, RPG said:

We had a '5 minute early' rule for all parades and meetings when I was going through my military training. I once got into trouble for being 2 minutes late for being 5 minutes early! It was all part of the fun then, didn't do me any harm and kept everyone on their toes.

Times and fashions have changed, I accept that. But standards haven't changed. They have fallen.

In some areas of society I agree. Like judging people on their clothing choices for example. Although I think that's just changed rather than fallen, it's always been a low standard and immaterial in most walks of life. 

[Hafnia]

Just now, RPG said:

Well, that is where we will differ. Just compare Alli and vd Beek. Neither had played much soccer recently, both came on as subs at Newcastle. And each played like the image they presented to the fans at Goodison Park. VD Beek was smart and stylish. Alli - wasn't!

can you explain why other player have worn clothes similar to Alli, driven flash cars yet dont get the scrutiny he gets?

 

you can go on youtube and watch him talking to a group of school children about mental health if you want???  very eloquent, sensitive, thoughtful..... but yeah he wore some clothes you dont like and donny looked like del boy trotter so thats that

 

[StevO]

32 minutes ago, RPG said:

.

Times and fashions have changed, I accept that. But standards haven't changed. They have fallen.

The clothes you wear do not represent your standards. 

[StevO]

15 minutes ago, RPG said:

Well, that is where we will differ. Just compare Alli and vd Beek. Neither had played much soccer recently, both came on as subs at Newcastle. And each played like the image they presented to the fans at Goodison Park. VD Beek was smart and stylish. Alli - wasn't!

Im out. This is just ridiculous. 
Arguing about standards while looking at a photo of a national hero who starved millions of Indians is exactly how I wanted my Friday lunch time to go. 
On the plus side, I’ve managed to do my job this morning wearing a pair of gym shorts and a t-shirt. Hope my boss doesn’t find out how unprofessional I’ve been. 

[Hafnia]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

Im out. This is just ridiculous. 
Arguing about standards while looking at a photo of a national hero who starved millions of Indians is exactly how I wanted my Friday lunch time to go. 
On the plus side, I’ve managed to do my job this morning wearing a pair of gym shorts and a t-shirt. Hope my boss doesn’t find out how unprofessional I’ve been. 

woolly jumper for me, no socks and a pair of hummel cotton shorts......

[StevO]

7 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

woolly jumper for me, no socks and a pair of hummel cotton shorts......

Just put a pair of chinos and a jumper on to go and see a client. Concerned about this coat I’ve got though. 

[Romey 1878]

Personally, I think having a role model that is authentic to themselves (i.e. wearing what they feel comfortable in) is better than someone conforming to what someone else wants them to be in order to people please.

Be yourself is a much better message in my eyes.

[Palfy]

This has got rather silly as someone who runs his own company I do want and expect the guys who work for me to be presentable in their appearance, as carpenters they are skilled and looking presentable helps reflect that there work will be presentable, I have to implement this with quite a few who basically would go to work looking tramps rather than someone you would want to work on your house, I agree being of smart appearance won’t make you a better carpenter but it will definitely take the microscope off you from people questioning your ability because your appearance can make people question your workmanship. 
I personally don’t blame Alli or others mentioned for there appearance when representing the club, I firmly blame the club I think there should be a code of conduct set out by the club on all aspects of acceptable behaviour if you are an Everton player, and a dress code should be implemented when representing the team, I don’t think it’s to much to ask and imo shows a togetherness and professionalism. Again imo these things should be implemented by the manager and DoF. 

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, RPG said:

You are quite right, of course, that Alli's transgressions (which you don't even agree are transgressions) are miniscule compared with those of Zouma or Rashford. But Zouma and Rashford don't play for Everton. I wouldn't want to see this being blown up out of all proportion but it seems to be happening anyway because:

Greenwood.

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

This has got rather silly as someone who runs his own company I do want and expect the guys who work for me to be presentable in their appearance, as carpenters they are skilled and looking presentable helps reflect that there work will be presentable, I have to implement this with quite a few who basically would go to work looking tramps rather than someone you would want to work on your house, I agree being of smart appearance won’t make you a better carpenter but it will definitely take the microscope off you from people questioning your ability because your appearance can make people question your workmanship. 
I personally don’t blame Alli or others mentioned for there appearance when representing the club, I firmly blame the club I think there should be a code of conduct set out by the club on all aspects of acceptable behaviour if you are an Everton player, and a dress code should be implemented when representing the team, I don’t think it’s to much to ask and imo shows a togetherness and professionalism. Again imo these things should be implemented by the manager and DoF. 

At that point they were representing themselves, so they can wear what best does that.

When they arrive at the game tomorrow they’ll be in Everton gear as they should be, just as they were when they arrived for the Newcastle game.

[Palfy]

17 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

At that point they were representing themselves, so they can wear what best does that.

That is very debatable imo they were there already being paid and being presented to the fans, I would very much so say that they were representing the club and not there of there own choice. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, RPG said:

Well, that is where we will differ. Just compare Alli and vd Beek. Neither had played much soccer recently, both came on as subs at Newcastle. And each played like the image they presented to the fans at Goodison Park. VD Beek was smart and stylish. Alli - wasn't!

Considering fashion is subjective, it's utterly irrelevant.

[Romey 1878]

Don't dress scruffily but also don't look too good in the luxurious car that you own...

Basically, no matter what you do there will always be someone that has a problem with it. So just do whatever the fuck makes you happy. 

[Shukes]

I’m being coached by a business coach at minute.

He has three pictures of his journey.

1: trousers, shirt, blazer and tie = start of his career when he had no clue.

2: trousers, short sleeved shirt. No tie = trying to figure it out.

3: Black t shirt and jeans = multi millionaire who just realised no one gives a shit what you wear.

Fuck sake, I wear an Everton top wherever I go, and look at me

[Bailey]

I think it depends on your industry a lot to. Im not sure how I would be taken if I rocked up to a client meeting wearing jeans and a t-shirt. Then again I have been suited and booted for the last however many years of my life. 

I will add that I can look just as much of a right scruffy cunt in a shirt and tie as I can in some trackies and on quiet days I am pretty sure I do! 

[Matt]

6 hours ago, RPG said:

To paraphrase the footballing equivalent:

Fashion is subjective. Class is permanent.

No class (or sense of pride) whatsoever in Alli's appearance.

To be honest, that's more true of those judging him on clothes.