Brighton at home

[BedfordBlue]

That result is 100% down to rafa totally wrong formation to start with but still sticks with it till we are 3 - 1 down we should have won that 

[memmaclub2]

6 minutes ago, RPG said:

I still think Rafa is the right man to take us forward but I cannot defend starting with a back 5 (which didn't work), seeing us get overrun in midfield and going 0-2 down by half time and then not making a change during the break. We were crying out for an extra body in midfield and a left footed player at left back. Kenny and Holgate should have been replaced by Digne and Gomes at half time and played 4-2-3-1.

I'd love to known what you have seen in Rafa that makes you think he is the man to take us forward.

[memmaclub2]

59 minutes ago, Palfy said:

They haven’t won yet mem for fuck sake 

Just trying to give context to how poor the team is maybe premature but how people can watch this crap and still want us to stick with this guy is beyond me.

[RuffRob]

definitely caught cold in that first half having not played for 2.5 weeks. That was always my fear for this game. DCL not so sharp either and gutted when he missed the pen.. All in all we lost that in the first 30mins.  I think if we would have played the Newcastle game a few days ago everybody would have just been that fraction sharper - and I think we would have won todays game.

on the positive, great to see Gordon finally get his goals - hoping he will kick on the goal scoring front now he has that monkey off his back. 

[Zoo 2.0]

I don't know how much longer I can keep doing this. Turning up in the freezing cold and pissing down rain to see us get completely dominated by whoever we're playing on the day. The formation, tactics, attitude, desire were all absolutely fucking abysmal, as it has been for most of this season. Only Demarai Gray and Anthony Gordon looked like they gave a shit and the only two that looked like they weren't playing in a League Two side. 

We are so appalling it's actually becoming comical. If you don't laugh you cry, but it's getting to the point where I'm beyond numb to the situation and am just actively against anything Everton have to offer at the moment. I keep thinking to myself how far we are from the teams that Moyes put out, we've gone from players who would die for the shirt to football players who are simply employed by Everton Football Club. 

Benitez isn't going anywhere soon, but that's just a reminder of the incompetence of an owner that either doesn't give a shit, is completely clueless at running a football business, or both.

[Zoo 2.0]

2 minutes ago, RPG said:

Ok, let me perhaps put it this way. I think sacking Rafa now would make things worse. I am not defending his tactics or team selection today but the performance and result was, imho, just as much down to individual errors as Rafa's management. He obviously has a clear idea of how he wants to move the club forward and is bringing in his own players to try to make it happen. If his ideas will work remains to be seen. What is important is that we don't get relegated while we are in this transition phase. I do think it could be ugly footie to watch for most of the rest of our season but we need to concentrate on staying up, maybe having a good cup run and seeing how we feel about Rafa in May or June.

Probably the kiss of death but the Sky Sports pundits now all agree that it will be 3 from the current bottom 4 that go down. They have written Norwich off and fancy 2 from Newcastle, Burnley or Watford to join them.

Basically, Nil Satis Nisi Optimum translates to "It'll be sound, stick with the manager because there's three worse teams than us?".

Newcastle, Burnley and Watford would play us off the park at the moment, in fact the latter did.

[memmaclub2]

Your points are fair RPG but the point i don't get is you say " If his ideas will work remains to be seen" how long do you leave it and isn't it fair to say his ideas have worked anywhere near enough up to now and that's nearly half a season.

[memmaclub2]

6 minutes ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

Benitez isn't going anywhere soon, but that's just a reminder of the incompetence of an owner that either doesn't give a shit, is completely clueless at running a football business, or both.

Yep and if this continues there comes a point when they have to panic and put someone in who can just avoid relegation. Based on results and how we are playing being pulled into a relegation battle is a possibility.

[Zoo 2.0]

Anyone who thinks that we're not in a relegation battle is delusional, I genuinely think that the only side we put away on current for is Norwich which leaves us basically 19th in the form table.

Newcastle will massively improve after January due to their resources, so they won't go down. Burnley are probably in deep trouble, but have the tenacity and experience to get out of it. 

For me, the only team pretty nailed on to go down is Norwich. 18th and 19th are up for grabs.

[Shukes]

He still has a transfer window to but his own players for me. I said it at the start of the season and I’ll stick with it. 
Were showing enough in recent weeks to show there is something there to work with.

Second half today we were again much better, but we were already chasing the game after 3 minutes. 
 

DCL back after months out. 
Richie out. 
Townsend out. 
Branthwaite covid (would have gave us that left sided defender were crying out for). 
Digne, on the bench but not used (time to let Ego go now Rafa). 
 

Let’s see what we do with this window.

[memmaclub2]

8 minutes ago, RPG said:

Not quite, but I don't know the Latin for 'Thete's a higher chance of getting relegated if we sack Rafa.'

Since the win at norwich (End of September) in 3 months we have taken 6 points from a possible 36 1 win 3 draws 8 losses. That is a 3rd of the games in a season. In us playing anyone I can't see a win how can you think sacking him reduces our chances.

[memmaclub2]

4 minutes ago, RPG said:

Big Sam and Sammy Lee again?

If it gets to this point you have to query who would be get

[Bailey]

9 minutes ago, RPG said:

Not quite, but I don't know the Latin for 'Thete's a higher chance of getting relegated if we sack Rafa.'

Why is there? 

You can argue that the grass isnt always greener but I don't think you can say with any certainty that a new manager can't get us playing better football. 

4 minutes ago, RPG said:

Thanks. It's not easy I know but until Rafa has a covid-free, injury free, match fit squad to choose from it could be argued that it is unfair to judge him. On the other hand, we can't afford to drop into the bottom three at all.

Our next 3 league games are v Leicester, Norwich and Villa and Norwich is a must win while the other 2 are must not lose imho.

Every side in this league is dealing with injury / covid plagued squads. Can we not judge any managers until it is a level playing field? 

Realistically we were missing one player that would definitely start (Richie) and a couple who may start. Ironically the best player today was one who probably wouldn't have played had we had a full squad to chose from. 

There are lots of worse squads across the leagues that play better football than their means. I think we are underperforming with this group of players. They look disjointed and that is down to the manager.

I am not looking at a relegation battle and we need to start climbing up the table. All three of those games are winnable and we shouldn't be looking at any of them as must not lose. 

[BedfordBlue]

14 minutes ago, RPG said:

Not quite, but I don't know the Latin for 'Thete's a higher chance of getting relegated if we sack Rafa.'

We have 1 won in 12 how could there possibly be higher chance of getting relegated if we sack this idiot 

[memmaclub2]

2 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I am not looking at a relegation battle and we need to start climbing up the table. All three of those games are winnable and we shouldn't be looking at any of them as must not lose. 

Buddy after witnessing the performances and results of this season I don't understand why you wouldn't look beneath us but would be looking up I am following evidence of the past to predict the future and I don't come up with a climb up the table. the next 3 games are winnable if the last 12 games hadn't happened.

[Bailey]

9 minutes ago, memmaclub2 said:

Buddy after witnessing the performances and results of this season I don't understand why you wouldn't look beneath us but would be looking up I am following evidence of the past to predict the future and I don't come up with a climb up the table. the next 3 games are winnable if the last 12 games hadn't happened.

Its simply because we create enough to win games or at least pick up points.

I don't know if you watch a lot of the other teams but aside from those top 6 or 7 clubs, the rest look really patchy. We might be terrible for large parts of the game but we will create and score goals on the counter and not too many sides know how to deal with that. 

I see the Leicester and Villa games as ones where our way of playing will be suited to the pattern of the game. If we score first, it gives those two sides a massive problem. Saying that even Norwich dont seem to have changed much under Smith but they wont be as open as they were. If they sat deep and counter attacked us like Watford did, I would be massively concerned. 

[Gwlad]

54 minutes ago, RPG said:

Not quite, but I don't know the Latin for 'Thete's a higher chance of getting relegated if we sack Rafa.'

Est altior facultas receptandi si diripiamus Rafa

You're welcome!!

 

 

[Formby]

42 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

Est altior facultas receptandi si diripiamus Rafa

You're welcome!!

 

 

I would have put Thete superior occasio instead of Est altior facultas, to be honest... 

[Cornish Steve]

Sorry for repeating myself, but the three basic faults remain.

1) Unsupportable tactics. Why play three central defenders at home and against Brighton? It's not as if it helped our defence since we left their forwards unmarked time and again. Why concede the midfield when games are won and lost in midfield? Why not play two forwards when it clearly would have made a difference? Our players seemed mystified about the game plan as well, at times running around without any obvious plan or formation.

2) Weird substitutions. Who in their right minds would have left Coleman playing out of position on the left and DC-L all alone upfront by not using subs at half-time? Who would choose Rondon when youngsters were hungry to play upfront? What was the point of bringing on Gomes with just minutes to play? These substitutions were baffling.

3) The manager's worst fault was very evident today: playing favourites and holding grudges. Why would a manager put Digne on the bench and keep him there and, in front of his nose, play Coleman on the left while keeping an ineffective Kenny on the field? This was nothing other than vindictiveness: I can think of no other reason. Either you play Digne or you keep him at home: You don't humiliate the guy in front of the fans and his teammates.

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

I don't know how much longer I can keep doing this. Turning up in the freezing cold and pissing down rain to see us get completely dominated by whoever we're playing on the day. The formation, tactics, attitude, desire were all absolutely fucking abysmal, as it has been for most of this season. Only Demarai Gray and Anthony Gordon looked like they gave a shit and the only two that looked like they weren't playing in a League Two side. 

We are so appalling it's actually becoming comical. If you don't laugh you cry, but it's getting to the point where I'm beyond numb to the situation and am just actively against anything Everton have to offer at the moment. I keep thinking to myself how far we are from the teams that Moyes put out, we've gone from players who would die for the shirt to football players who are simply employed by Everton Football Club. 

Benitez isn't going anywhere soon, but that's just a reminder of the incompetence of an owner that either doesn't give a shit, is completely clueless at running a football business, or both.

You are right about the players I fought as you that Gray and Gordon stood out and DCL and Allan worked really hard and without real match fitness, we have the players to win games we don’t have the players to stop us losing games Keane Holgate Coleman Kenny aren’t good enough. So let’s look at the 2 players you where happy with. Gordon a young man who the manager has given more playing time and shown more  belief in than Ancelotti ever did, Gray who was brought to the club by Benitez he knows what he wants and where he’s going, his problem is what he’s inherited can’t do it. We need to give him a chance to cull the back line get another 4-5 in between this and the summer transfer windows end. I know we are all emotionally shot with what’s happening with our club over the last few years, but I feel if we give him the opportunity to get players in who give a fuck and can do what’s asked of them we can change the culture you highlighted. We’ve needed a manager who doesn’t accept players who don’t turn up and try no matter how big they may feel they are. We have a better chance going forward if we give Benitez till January 2023, we don’t need another manager yet we need better players to move forward. 

[Gwlad]

1 hour ago, Formby said:

I would have put Thete superior occasio instead of Est altior facultas, to be honest... 

New thread. Everton in Latin.

[Gwlad]

28 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You are right about the players I fought as you that Gray and Gordon stood out and DCL and Allan worked really hard and without real match fitness, we have the players to win games we don’t have the players to stop us losing games Keane Holgate Coleman Kenny aren’t good enough. So let’s look at the 2 players you where happy with. Gordon a young man who the manager has given more playing time and shown more  belief in than Ancelotti ever did, Gray who was brought to the club by Benitez he knows what he wants and where he’s going, his problem is what he’s inherited can’t do it. We need to give him a chance to cull the back line get another 4-5 in between this and the summer transfer windows end. I know we are all emotionally shot with what’s happening with our club over the last few years, but I feel if we give him the opportunity to get players in who give a fuck and can do what’s asked of them we can change the culture you highlighted. We’ve needed a manager who doesn’t accept players who don’t turn up and try no matter how big they may feel they are. We have a better chance going forward if we give Benitez till January 2023, we don’t need another manager yet we need better players to move forward. 

Sadly agree with this.

[Bailey]

I have just watched the first goal back. I saw a lot of people blaming Keane but I dont think it is his fault. I dont think he was blameless but the way I see it is this.

1. Gray gave their wing back all the space in the world. Coleman had no chance of getting across. Looks like a system issue combined with Brighton playing quickly from side-to-side.

2. Holgate follows his man, so Keane has to cover the front post as there is acres of space to be exploited if he doesn't. 

3. The ball goes over his head and Godfrey hasn't covered tightly enough behind him. Actually I think he is close enough but he doesn't react and there is no aggression. Keane can't do anything, the man is Godfrey's. Personally I think it is a result of moving to a 5 man defence, with the participants not really knowing what they should be doing. 

4. Doucoure goes to sleep and his man just runs off him and scores. 

I don't think we concede that goal in the same way in a 433 with Gray in position and the players knowing where and who they should be covering. 

[Bailey]

The second goal is the same issue we have had for ages. 

We don't win the first header (Alan / Doucoure) and once that happens it destroys the zonal system. At least if you are man-to-man you are still tracking those other back post runners into the box. 

[Bailey]

The third goal is just a complete mess. Keane and Godfrey are pressing (but nowhere near the player they are marking). Holgate and Kenny are 10 yards deeper. Holgate does get back. 

Keane's pass to Gordon sells him short and he gets outmuscled by Burns. Kenny then comes out of the line and misses his man. 

When they work the cross, Holgate is miles off his man but in truth I don't think it matters given how the layoff is played and the finish.

The defending was truly all over the place. Absolute carnage. 

[Cornish Steve]

4 hours ago, RPG said:

Thanks. It's not easy I know but until Rafa has a covid-free, injury free, match fit squad to choose from it could be argued that it is unfair to judge him.

Our squad today was less affected than was Brighton's. There's no excuse here.

4 hours ago, RuffRob said:

definitely caught cold in that first half having not played for 2.5 weeks.

Yet we complain that we need more time when experiencing just three days between games and also look forward to the international breaks because it gives us two weeks or so to prepare. No excuse here either.

[Cornish Steve]

38 minutes ago, Bailey said:

The defending was truly all over the place. Absolute carnage. 

This is the crux of the matter for today's game: With Benitez having focused for half a season on our defence, how can it be so bad? Of course, he'll argue that this is why he's bringing in new defenders, but that holds no water. Our RB was weak today because we moved our actual RB to play LB. Our LB was weak today because the manager insisted on playing Coleman out of position because of his disdain for Digne. These are the positions for which we're actively recruiting. The principal problem today was instead with the three CB approach, and that's all on the manager. It's unfair to criticize Keane, because he was playing as asked. In his shoes, I'd be very frustrated right now, and I do wonder whether he'll become the next Digne.

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, Cornish Steve said:

This is the crux of the matter for today's game: With Benitez having focused for half a season on our defence, how can it be so bad? Of course, he'll argue that this is why he's bringing in new defenders, but that holds no water. Our RB was weak today because we moved our actual RB to play LB. Our LB was weak today because the manager insisted on playing Coleman out of position because of his disdain for Digne. These are the positions for which we're actively recruiting. The principal problem today was instead with the three CB approach, and that's all on the manager. It's unfair to criticize Keane, because he was playing as asked. In his shoes, I'd be very frustrated right now, and I do wonder whether he'll become the next Digne.

But, but, he's really good at sorting the defence out!

Ancelotti had us defensively sound and then this balloon has come in and took a sledgehammer to it.

[Cornish Steve]

3 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

But, but, he's really good at sorting the defence out!

Ancelotti had us defensively sound and then this balloon has come in and took a sledgehammer to it.

I'm trying to picture a balloon wielding a sledgehammer, but your cynicism is definitely warranted. Defence is supposed to be Benitez' forte, which is rather worrying.

[RuffRob]

43 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Our squad today was less affected than was Brighton's. There's no excuse here.

Yet we complain that we need more time when experiencing just three days between games and also look forward to the international breaks because it gives us two weeks or so to prepare. No excuse here either.

Err, other than not have not played for 2.5 weeks simply being a fact and then low and behold we go 2 goals down in the first 30mins. Others on here also pointed out this fear a few days before kick off. Not playing for 2.5weeks does have a tangible bearing on sharpness in a game, especially the beginning.

Fatiuge also  plays a part, but we actually came back and 'won' the second half when thing sort of thing would have affected Brighton as opposed to us. 

I am not trying to say it was a good performance, but I have said on a number of occasions we are not a good team yet and not expecting that to change just becasue a calander has has moved from 2021 to 2022 and DCL is back in the team having not played for over 3months.

With regard to 'international break' that effects all teams equally, so not same comparision.

I still maintain if we had Newcastle game under ours and DCLs belt, I am confident today's result would have been different.