Leicester (Home) 5th November

[Formby]

Completely outplayed today. If DCL scores, it could have been different, but he didn't and now he's injured (again). The folly of not taking the money for Gordon and investing in a proper striker is going to haunt us. Maupay was never the answer - completely ineffective unless he plays off a CF - but Frank doesn't want to play two up front so what was the point?  

[dunlopp9987]

1 hour ago, Tonsta said:

Pure unadulterated Crap right back to last season, not hard to beat at the moment, don't want to going into the long break with this form.

We seam absolutely clueless once we cross the half way line. and he has to stop playing Coleman and Gana.

We beat Palace 3-0 two games ago...

Sky falling down much?

[Palfy]

For me it wasn't all bad, we played some decent football in the first half especially after the first 10 minutes, what we lack is some one who has the ability to put the finishing touch to our good play. It's been a long time since we had a striker who scored week in week out, whether you liked him or not Lukaku did what he was paid to do which was to stick the ball in the net, we desperately need someone like that again, because DCL and Maupay aren't good enough, I hear people say they work hard so what means nothing, let the M/F and the wide men work hard, I want the strikers in the box taking their chances. I'm happy with our defence happy with our M/F wide players could be better, but our strikers or forwards don't deserve having such titles attributed to them. Frank knows that's the problem with this squad, let's hope he can buy the answer to change it. 

[Romey 1878]

I have not lost my shit at a game like I did tonight for a good while. I was going off my fucking head watching that shite.

Maybe the game would've gone a different way if Iwobi had put that sitter away early on, and had DCL scored at the beginning of the second half, who knows? What I do know is that I then proceeded to watch us achieve the square root of fuck all playing shite football at a glacial pace, while Leicester tore us to shreds at every opportunity. We're lucky we weren't on the end of a proper shellacking. We would've been in past seasons, so there's that. HURRAH!

There was an absolute chasm of quality between the two sides. Leicester players were constantly attacking with speed and intent. They had players moving into space to receive the ball from their fellow attackers. Whereas we were incredibly slow in possession and constantly let Leicester get back in their shape. Gray was one of the worst ones for this. Time after time he had the opportunity to just beat his man but instead fucked that idea right off and would slow everything down. Also, they'd attack and be bearing down on our goal quick as you like. In comparison, we'd win the ball and fanny about with backward and sideways passes that went nowhere.  I felt like running down there and shaking the fucking moron. And our players were static fucking caravans in terms of making themselves available for the ball. MOVE!

Massive difference in terms of off the ball defensive work too. They pressed really high up the pitch and we couldn't handle it, forcing us into countless mistakes. We barely bothered with any of that nonsense when Leicester had the ball, they were allowed to freely pass out from the back 9 times out of 10.

Pickford - SHANK!

Coleman - Think this was a game too far for him. Barnes gave him a torrid time.

Coady & Tarkowski - Responsible for us not losing this by 5.

Mykolenko - He was alright.

Gray - I think he was put on this planet to put me in an early grave. Just put the fucking ball in the fucking box lad.

Onana - Useless.

Gueye - Shite but still had a better game than his central midfield partner despite spending most of the first half on one leg.

McNeil - Playing was he?

Iwobi - Should have scored, at least tried to play football. Wish he'd drive forward a bit more when he's got space to run into in front of him more.

DCL - Should've had an assist for Iwobi's big miss, also should have buried his own chance in the second half too, won a few headers. Injured.

[Bailey]

The tone of this game was set from the very first minute. Dom loses the ball too easily, Gana gets shrugged off the ball and Mykolenko lets Maddison have an attempt on goal from 12 yards out. That was 17 seconds in. 

We didnt have to wait long for the next insight into the game either. Maddison again in loads of space, Tarkowski giving Daka the freedom of Goodison and a better ball and he is getting a better shot on goal. 

There was also a glimpse of our only moments of hope, with Dom and Iwobi linking up well a couple of minutes later. Their link up play was the only shining light in the game. I think that between them they had 3 chances and one of them should have scored. 

I don't really know what to make of what Lampard is trying to achieve. Today we got a pasting at home from a team below us in the table. Whilst you could argue that we probably had the better chances, Leicester created so many good chances and opportunities that they probably deserved another couple of goals. They beat us in every department. 

Defensively Leicester did what all teams should be looking to do against us. Daka stretched the CB's. They were scared of his pace and they sat off him. The midfield were trying to press and it left Maddison, Barnes and even Dewsbury-Hall with loads of space. It also made it easy for Daka to drop in as the CB's couldn't stay close enough to him. We were nowhere near compact enough and that back 4 needs to take a lot of the criticism for that. 

In attack, I have no idea what our plan is. Our chances came from winning the ball high up the pitch, however that failed us far more times than it succeeded. When teams get men behind the ball, we don't have a clue. Its embarrassing. We seem to rely on Gray beating a man and putting a ball in but that ball is normally mistimed and easily defended. The only genuine quality comes from Iwobi. That performance needs to be put in the context of a leaky Leicester side who had a midfielder playing at CB, a RB playing at LB and the worst goalkeeper in the league. Their key holding midfielder was on the bench too. 

As for the individuals:

Pickford did pretty well on the whole. He made the saves he should have. Distribution was ermmm... streaky.

Mykolenko had a mixed game. Maddison tore him a new one all game but up against other threats, he did well. He was poor on the ball again at times. Whilst he looks better defending higher up the pitch, he also offers no threat with the ball at his feet.

Tarkowski gives players too much space. He gets really high blocking stats because he does really well to get back in at the last minute. Today he gave away too many chances because of that and this was highlighted the most when he gave the ball away to start with and then had Maddison put him on his arse because he was trying to get that last minute block in again. He made one quality block in the game though, covering someone else which would have probably been a goal without that intervention. 

Coady was probably the biggest reason for us dropping off. You see him want to have a yard on Daka all the time. He played him onside on a couple of balls over the top because he wanted to give himself that bit more time. That is all well and good when everyone is on the same page, but at the time the rest of the back four were looking to hold the line. 

Coleman is just someone I don't really want to criticise because we all know he is past it. That being said, he is probably doing better than Patterson defensively but I am not sure who that says more about.

Gana had another poor game prior to getting injured. He is really sloppy. I thought he had improved for his time at PSG but he is making mistake after mistake now. There is none of the class or composure he showed in his first couple of games. He was still better than Garner though. 

Onana breaks forward really well and then does absolutely nothing. Anywhere. I don't really see it. I am sure you could get a couple of clips a game for a highlight video but sometimes that is a push.

Iwobi was the only one to offer a threat. The rest of his contribution was limited. That still made him my MOTM, even if he should have scored.

Gray was his usual waste of space.

McNeil was also a waste of space.

Dom lost too many battles and didn't hold onto the ball anywhere near well enough but he played nice ball for Iwobi and his movement was good. Shame he couldn't finish his chance or control a couple of balls he should have done better with which may have given him half a chance. 

Garner was a bit of a worry for me. He looks good technically but he doesn't read the game well enough defensively and he sold himself and got out of position so many times and he doesn't have the athleticism to get back in. Its early days for him and he needs a run of games to prove himself but I don't see him playing in that holding role in this league at this stage of his career.

Patterson linked play up well but his final ball is poor and he gets beaten too easily at the back. 

Gordon replaced a waste of space but remained a waste of space. Maybe it is a tactic?

Maupay had another cameo to forget. Hopefully he comes alive again when he starts games because he is useless from the bench.

[Tonsta]

10 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

We beat Palace 3-0 two games ago...

Sky falling down much?

Palace was the fluke this is the norm, sky looks fine to me

[patto]

Leicester were just better than us they had pace all over the pitch and class also.

It made me worry that our 2 centre backs when exposed to pace will struggle even though they have been good so far.

[Elston Gunnn]

15 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

We beat Palace 3-0 two games ago...

5 hours ago, Tonsta said:

Palace was the fluke this is the norm.

This seems a reasonable starting point to consider what this team is.  Was the Palace match the real Everton, a team capable of a top 6-8 finish?  Or was the Leicester match, with mediocre-to-poor play, the real Everton, a team that will be bottom third of the table, maybe even in another relegation scrap?

I lean toward the latter — we’re not very good — but I’m not confident in my judgment.  Am I seeing what I think I’m seeing?

I think I see a team (1) whose defense is much improved, (2) that is utterly woeful at (a) basic passing and (b) competent finishing, (3) with several promising midfielders, yet only one of whom is actually delivering, match after match, on that promise, (4) that lacks some combination of pace, energy, aggressiveness, determination, and unity on the counter, and just in possession generally, and (5) whose players, especially in key moments going forward, simply make the wrong decision, failing to notice the right pass, for example.

Consistently I think the opposing team passes more crisply and more purposefully.  Consistently I think the opposing team shows more energy, pressing more effectively and winning contested balls.  We seem under pressure more often than pressing the opponent.  We are outfought way too often.

Thus, I am rather more surprised, if gleefully so, when we play well, than just routinely dismayed at our standard uninspired play.  I don’t often enjoy watching our matches.

Yet ....... I am not sure that what I think I see is what’s actually happening on the pitch.  Maybe I’m just pre-disgruntled, soured by our last several seasons, expecting to be disappointed and so, disappointed, angry even.

What are you seeing?

 

 

[Formby]

35 minutes ago, Elston Gunnn said:

What are you seeing?

 

 

The umpeenth repeat of a very bad show. Wishing the ending was different, that they could get a better cast, and the director try something new. 

[Bailey]

8 hours ago, Elston Gunnn said:

 

What are you seeing?

 

I am not sure if our defence is much improved. Whilst we may not have conceded as many goals and therefore we superficially appear to be better defensively, we are the 4th worst team in the league in expected goals against. The 3 worst teams are the 3 promotes teams. You could argue we would be worse without Coady/Tarkowski et al, but we weren't that bad under Benitez (albeit not much better either!). We have at least looked a lot more solid on set pieces! 

I am not sure our midfielders are that good on the ball or comfortable receiving the ball in tight spaces. I am not sure what it is, but something is wrong about how they receive the ball and move it on. You watch other teams and they are far better than us technically. I also think they lack a level of concentration too. All of them have been guilty of being hesitant and sloppy. Maybe it is confidence. 

There is a massive issue with aggressiveness. Because of the limitations of our centre backs, they keep dropping off. They didnt even try and challenge Mitrovic at times against Fulham, then they always wanted a couple of yards on Daka this week. You simply cant be aggressive in other areas of the pitch if your CBs are allowing that type of space. Teams play through the press and Leicester did that so many times. 

Bad decisions in the final third isnt just an Everton problem. It plagues most teams in the league. Its one of the reason a player like Gray pisses me off and I would happily move him on. He has a lot of qualities but decision making isnt one. I would much rather see more limited players with good decision making than the other way around (albeit there is a time and a place for those too). If you look at Leicester yesterday, if they make better decisions in the final third, they would have absolutely battered us. 

Our attacking play is probably our biggest worry. On one hand we have created some very good chances, the problem is that we dont create enough of them. Furthermore if teams get men behind the ball, we have no ideas at all. 

I am still not really sure what Frank is trying to achieve with this group. Every time I think I see something building, it isnt there in the next couple of games. The Bournemouth game is huge. We cant lose it. 

[Shukes]

We’re nowhere near the 4th worst defence on the league. We are performing at the top of the league regarding defence.

XP goals is a tool for analysts…. But it doesn’t show a true reflection of how a football match pans out.

An example of this is the goal on Saturday. Would you expect Youri’s goal to have not gone in against another team? That goal was going in against any team. You could argue we should have stopped the chance even happening, but the strike was a sensation.

Exoected goals against doesn't in any way show how your team defended so well that they stopped the opposition even creating a chance. It only shows stays against chances created.

Fact remains our defence is performing much much better than last year, while our forward line is pitifully poor. 
 

Gray has been our stand out performer up top! And his is inconsistent at best. While Dom is consistently unfit, and Gordon is consistently walking round wandering why Barca can’t afford him yet.

[Shukes]

Watching this match I’m changing my mind…. We’re terrible haha.

Mina getting absolutely bullied by a twelve year old kid that’s 4’8”!

Holgate on ice skates!

Bournemouth looking like world beaters!

[Bailey]

5 hours ago, Shukes said:

We’re nowhere near the 4th worst defence on the league. We are performing at the top of the league regarding defence.

XP goals is a tool for analysts…. But it doesn’t show a true reflection of how a football match pans out.

An example of this is the goal on Saturday. Would you expect Youri’s goal to have not gone in against another team? That goal was going in against any team. You could argue we should have stopped the chance even happening, but the strike was a sensation.

Exoected goals against doesn't in any way show how your team defended so well that they stopped the opposition even creating a chance. It only shows stays against chances created.

Fact remains our defence is performing much much better than last year, while our forward line is pitifully poor. 
 

Gray has been our stand out performer up top! And his is inconsistent at best. While Dom is consistently unfit, and Gordon is consistently walking round wandering why Barca can’t afford him yet.

Tielemans goal had something like a 0.02 chance of going in from that position. Its one of those that happens every now and then, not a good chance. 

It was the many other chances they had that worried me, albeit they ballsed them up and scored the worldie. That is football and what statistics cant measure. The fact remains, and I am sure you will agree, the more good quality chances you concede the more likely it is you will concede more goals. If you restrict teams to chances like the Tielemans strike, you wont concede lots of goals but every now and then they will go in (especially with the better ball strikers in the league).

On the very basic level of goals conceded, yes our defence is doing better than at this stage than last season, but on the quality of chances conceded it isn't. If it continues, we will start shipping more goals. It is inevitable.

The biggest concern for me when you do a basic comparison of the start of this season and last season is that we have a far superior midfield trio who are able to offer a lot more protection and we have brought in 5 new defenders. Despite that we are in a worse league position than we were this time last season. 

[Shukes]

Bailey if you think Tielimens had a 0.02% chance I’d going in…. Then I’ll just leave it there mate. 
You sound like a computer not a footfall fan that understands the game mate.

[Shukes]

On the rest of your post I agree Bailey. We will concede more the more chances we concede. 
But Leicester battered us in that match. Same as many other teams have had matches where they have been battered. 
But generally that’s been an exception. 
I haven’t been watching match’s feeling we are lucky in defence, more that we are a soft touch up front. Our defence has been lauded by many this season… fans, press, commentators and more.

Our defence is a much tougher proposition this year than it’s been in a long long time. 

[Romey 1878]

12 hours ago, Shukes said:

Mina getting absolutely bullied by a twelve year old kid that’s 4’8”!

I know he doesn't play a lot but surely you can't be surprised about that by this point?

It's unbelievable that he's stole a living from this club and has still managed to hoodwink so many of our fans into thinking he's a quality defender. He's average on a good day.

[Palfy]

9 hours ago, Bailey said:

14 hours ago, Shukes said:

Tielemans goal had something like a 0.02 chance of going in from that position. Its one of those that happens every now and then, not a good chance. 

Bailey you are sounding like a robot with these pointless stats you are posting, like Shukes and I and many others have said we have one of the best defensive records in the league to date, which makes it all the more remarkable when you consider we have the 3rd worst scoring record in the league to date. When I mentioned our defensive record a couple of weeks ago you came back with some 0.bullshit stat saying that we had a poor defence, to be honest mate what ever site you are using for your info you need to come off

[Bailey]

15 hours ago, Shukes said:

Bailey if you think Tielimens had a 0.02% chance I’d going in…. Then I’ll just leave it there mate. 
You sound like a computer not a footfall fan that understands the game mate.

I know he did. From that position compared to the league average (plus some over variables) a player in that position scores 0.02% of the time. Now, that stat applies to whether its Rondon or De Bruyne and it doesn't take a genius to work out that KBD would score above the league average for that position (and Rondon below ).

15 hours ago, Shukes said:

On the rest of your post I agree Bailey. We will concede more the more chances we concede. 
But Leicester battered us in that match. Same as many other teams have had matches where they have been battered. 
But generally that’s been an exception. 
I haven’t been watching match’s feeling we are lucky in defence, more that we are a soft touch up front. Our defence has been lauded by many this season… fans, press, commentators and more.

Our defence is a much tougher proposition this year than it’s been in a long long time. 

I don't think it is. The difference between this year and last is the tightening up of set pieces and the reduction in individual mistakes. Teams are still having lots of chances against us. At a very basic level Leicester had 22 shots, Fulham had 24 shots, Newcastle 16, Spurs 21, Utd 12, Southampton 22, West Ham 14... good defences dont concede that many shots and then you can back that up and look at the quality of the chances which I have. Maybe you should pay less attention to the pundits

This is also on the backdrop of our lack of attacking intent (i.e. we are playing defensive football) and the big changes in the composition of our midfield and defence. 

13 hours ago, Palfy said:

Bailey you are sounding like a robot with these pointless stats you are posting, like Shukes and I and many others have said we have one of the best defensive records in the league to date, which makes it all the more remarkable when you consider we have the 3rd worst scoring record in the league to date. When I mentioned our defensive record a couple of weeks ago you came back with some 0.bullshit stat saying that we had a poor defence, to be honest mate what ever site you are using for your info you need to come off

Pointless stats are looking at goals conceded and saying we have one of the best defences in the league! 

The more good chances you concede the more goals you willl ship in the long term. It is as simple as that. If things continue as they are that record you are clinging on to will creep lower and lower! 

 

[Shukes]

Number of chances doesn’t equate to good chances though mate. This is demonstrated each week, where teams have many chances and don’t score, where teams with less chances beat them.

I do understand what your saying about a chance in that position. But surely you also recognise your not saving that shot with two keepers! This is where expected goals falls on its ass.

And the pundits that I listen to are usually from Arab TV… so are 100% correct surely haha!

[Bailey]

11 hours ago, Shukes said:

Number of chances doesn’t equate to good chances though mate. This is demonstrated each week, where teams have many chances and don’t score, where teams with less chances beat them.

I do understand what your saying about a chance in that position. But surely you also recognise your not saving that shot with two keepers! This is where expected goals falls on its ass.

And the pundits that I listen to are usually from Arab TV… so are 100% correct surely haha!

No it doesn't which is why I also looked at the quality of the chances! I can't bloody win!

It doesn't fall on its arse at all. It doesn't measure the quality of the shot, it measures the quality of the position the shot was taken from. 

I imagine that most managers in the league would be happy allowing strikes from where Tielemans scored because its unlikely to lead to too many goals being conceded over the course of the season. One day, the opposition might score a few worldies but over the long term, they wont concede lots of goals.

The problem is, we are allowing too many much higher quality chances against us and we are allowing them too frequently. That is what I see,  that is what the basic stats say (shots on goal) and that is also what the more detailed stats also show (xG). 

[Shukes]

I watched the Leicester match though and they had a high number of shots from outside the area that although we’re on goal….. weren’t going to trouble us.

As is commonly heard on a football pitch, they can shoot from there all day.

Shots on goal don’t always equate to good chances. 
 

I’ve said many many times, I could roll a ball onto the goal line with all the opposition lying on the floor at the centre circle. But if you hit the ball the wrong way and it head towards your own goal……. It won’t be classed as an effort on goal and I won’t get an assist for it. This is where stats don’t tell the full story.

A great example is that Iwobi had arguably the best chance of the whole game….. but they scored and won the game.

[Bailey]

6 hours ago, Shukes said:

I watched the Leicester match though and they had a high number of shots from outside the area that although we’re on goal….. weren’t going to trouble us.

As is commonly heard on a football pitch, they can shoot from there all day.

Shots on goal don’t always equate to good chances. 
 

I’ve said many many times, I could roll a ball onto the goal line with all the opposition lying on the floor at the centre circle. But if you hit the ball the wrong way and it head towards your own goal……. It won’t be classed as an effort on goal and I won’t get an assist for it. This is where stats don’t tell the full story.

A great example is that Iwobi had arguably the best chance of the whole game….. but they scored and won the game.

Leicester still had 16 shots inside the area.

I agree that shots on goal dont always equate to good chances, that is why xG is a good tool to assess the quality of those shots.

I agree that stats also dont assess opportunities but I think opposition teams have been in better dangerous areas than we have, mainly because we spend less time in their final third.

FWIW xG has the Dom and Iwobi chances as two of the best three chances in the game (understat). Although going back to my days as a keeper, Id back myself to save the Iwobi one over Dom's just because of the angle. 

The story of the game for me is that they created more chances and more opportunities and they deserved to win the game, which they did. 

[Shukes]

Without a doubt they did. 100% agree.

I honestly feel we are much better than previous years. No stats are going to chance my mind there.

Yesterdays game will change my mind. Our whole defence looked division 1 level….. without the fight.

[patto]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Without a doubt they did. 100% agree.

I honestly feel we are much better than previous years. No stats are going to chance my mind there.

Yesterdays game will change my mind. Our whole defence looked division 1 level….. without the fight.

I agree with this our defence went from being good to being woeful we have defenders that get beat easily in the air. 
I didn’t want Coady I didn’t think he would improve our defence he had a few good games and now he dropping off. 
both central defenders lack pace once Mykolenko went off we were in deep trouble we don’t win headers in any box people may not like it but we need Mina back. 

[Wiggytop]

5 hours ago, patto said:

we need Mina back. 

Yeah, he was outstanding on Tuesday…….well he didn’t injure himself as far as we know.

[Tonsta]

Its not about bring him back or sign him, there is no spirit at the club, no back bone, no pride, no aggression.

Get Joe Royal back to instil what it means to play for us.

[patto]

2 hours ago, Wiggytop said:

Yeah, he was outstanding on Tuesday…….well he didn’t injure himself as far as we know.

Before his injurys Mina was without doubt the best defender on the books he wins most balls from corners both ends,we lost 2 goals from headers in the 6 hard box if your happy with that ok continue with centre backs that lack pace and are not great in the air,have a look at the replay and tell me your happy with that defending.

[Wiggytop]

8

4 minutes ago, patto said:

Before his injurys Mina was without doubt the best defender on the books he wins most balls from corners both ends,we lost 2 goals from headers in the 6 hard box if your happy with that ok continue with centre backs that lack pace and are not great in the air,have a look at the replay and tell me your happy with that defending.

Not overly happy but I’d still rather have Coady and Tarks, with Mina his injury record stops us having any stability at the back.

[patto]

Just now, Wiggytop said:

8

Not overly happy but I’d still rather have Coady and Tarks, with Mina his injury record stops us having any stability at the back.

Coach can't play the next game anyway so it has to be changed.

[Romey 1878]

28 minutes ago, patto said:

Before his injurys Mina was without doubt the best defender on the books

There's never been a "before his injuries".