Liverpool (away)

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

So you're satisfied that we played as well as Liverpool....who (as you say) are very average. There's no problem with a performance like that ? And we didn't play badly?

 

 

In a word yes

 

 

I am not under any illusion that we put in some kind of master class performance, It was a typical derby niether side played any real football and neither side had the chance to, such was the level of commitment from both sets of players with tackles flying in everywhere

 

IMO there was no point in the game that the Shite dominated in fact I was sat there at half time fairly content that we had been the better side

 

As I said IMO a moment of madness in which Howard/Neville combined to gift them a goal was the only difference between the sides. After that we just were not good enough to break them down

 

If Cahills header had gone in and we had of snook it 1-0 everyone would have been on here raving about a job well done but such is the fickle nature of some fans that now there is some kind of witch hunt going on

 

 

Im not sitting here saying we were robbed but at the same time I agree with Moysey that we did enough to have got something out of the game

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

right this is a bit irritating for me...why is nev getting seemingly most of the blame for the goal...other than the fact that he was the wrong side (and thats arguable) how can he be more at fault than the keeper when its a ball right at him in the 6 yard box i mean where the fucks howard? he should have the time to pull i pants down and knock that out with his cock if he'seven remotely in the game.

 

we were fucking awful and didn't deserve a thing. they had 1 man less than us...a defender...and yet we never looked like scoring if we played for a month....and for some reason became narrower when they put everyone behind the ball...whats that about davey? end of the day a 10 man team played a 10 man game, kept it tight and made the most of set pieces...a job well done...if we had of done that everyone would be singing our praises....simply not good enough, absolutely awful

 

I agree with you that Howard was equally culpable for the goal but in what scenario would Nevilles positioning ever be right?

[CraccerC]

well it all depends i think...i mean if howards coming for somethin in the 6 yard box then neville can't be in the way...pip is captain, granted but from set plays its howard that needs to be taking responsibility for things like that, hes got to command his area

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

well it all depends i think...i mean if howards coming for somethin in the 6 yard box then neville can't be in the way...pip is captain, granted but from set plays its howard that needs to be taking responsibility for things like that, hes got to command his area

 

 

I totally agree that Howard should be coming and taking that ball but also Neville should be goalside of the forward its very basic defending, thats why I think they are both at fault

[pete0]

even worse neville didnt learn from his mistake and doen exactly the same on the next corner they had. a dont usually slag neville off, but that was shocking

[Maghull70]

right this is a bit irritating for me...why is nev getting seemingly most of the blame for the goal...other than the fact that he was the wrong side (and thats arguable) how can he be more at fault than the keeper when its a ball right at him in the 6 yard box i mean where the fucks howard? he should have the time to pull i pants down and knock that out with his cock if he'seven remotely in the game.

 

 

 

Neville was NOT goal side of Kuyt (so how can that be arguable?).

One of the first things you get taught as kids is to be goal side and DO NOT let the attacker get goal side.

Neville should not make such STUPID, SCHOOLBOY errors. That is Why Neville is getting blame for the goal (quite simple really).

However, admittedly Howard was also partly at fault. between the two of them they fucked up completely. Both more concerned about playing games with Kuyt than actually defending the corner. Tossers.

[Romey 1878]

I'm sick to death of feeling this way after derby's, it's happening far too frequently. We bottled it yesterday; manager and players.

 

Another game that demonstrates that Moyes will never be a top 4 manager; top teams want a manager who goes out to win games rather than be more concerned about not losing. Liverpool were there for the taking from the off, nevermind once they were down to 10 men. He should go back to management school and learn some tactics, or rather some new tactics instead of the one dimensional crap he continually serves up. He seemingly does not know how to set up his side to beat the top sides. Sure, he's had the odd victory but nothing that makes you think we could compete with them on a regular basis. The long ball doesn't work ffs! We don't even have the players to make it fucking work! How many times is he going to have to witness that before it penetrates his thick skull? But no, we keep on with it in the hope that Saha will maybe start winning these aimless high balls. It's embarrassing.

 

Then there's the players themselves. I don't think I've witnessed a set of players show so little fight or determination in a derby . It's left me totally dejected. It wasn't all of them but far too many of them. On top of that, there was no penetration or creativity to be seen, far too slow in even trying to make anything happen. We played small time.

 

That all being said, before we lost Felli things looked OK. While we weren't dominating the game we were very comfortable, but once he was gone we totally lost our way. For me, Moyes made the wrong decision by bringing Arteta on for Felli, it wasn't the game to bring Arteta into because the onus fell on him to make something happen and right now he's just not ready for it. It was a move of desperation by Moyes. A better move would have been to push Nevilel into the DM role and bring Coleman on at RB. That way we'd have had a proper DM in there and an attacking outlet down the right. Is Moyes scared to attack? It looks that way.

 

 

 

 

Howard - He's simply not a top keeper. The top keepers make that crucial save etc when they haven't been called into action all game until then. Howard failed to do this.

 

 

Neville - Shocking defending for their goal and was piss poor all game really.

 

 

Heitinga - Solid but even he aimlessly hoofed the ball into Reina's arms. He got my MOTM vote though because he showed fight and actually tried to play for the most part.

 

 

Distin - He is a fucking donkey, but the bitch down.

 

 

Baines - Set pieces much improved which is a relief and generally had a good game, especially when looking to move the play forward.

 

 

Donovan - A bit hit and miss IMO. He showed some good pieces of play and then you wouldn't see him at all for a while.

 

 

Fellaini - Was looking like he was going to dominate the shite's midfield so it's a shame he got injured. He's our most important player based on yesterday so I hope he's not going to miss any games.

 

 

Osman - Started off ok but then disappeared. Another big game and another game of hide and seek for Ossie IMO.

 

 

Pienaar - Very disappointed with him yesterday. He just didn't seem up for it whatsoever, and we needed him to step up and make things happen. Fail.

 

 

Cahill - Worked tirelessly and he was having to do the work of two players with the effort Saha was putting in. He's one of very few players who can hold their heads up high.

 

 

Saha - What a waste of space he was, he needs a massive kick up the arse. He just sulked his way through the game. You'd think a new contract and a pay rise would make you play well or at least try. I know he had very little service but it's not much of an excuse when Yak managed to do more with the same service in a shorter period of time.

[Matt]

Id go with most of that Mark, especially the sub decision, Coleman was clearly the obvious choice to give a similar shape after Screech went off (who was lucky not to be red carded too). The goal was soft, but in my opinion Howard is to blame, he shouldve come for it. Ok, Pip was brushed aside far too easily but the keeper should be collecting them all day long.

 

Peanuts shouldve gone too (though the 2nd yellow was pathetic, that was the ref making up for bottling the red card earlier).

 

Moyes' review of the game was fair to be honest, we didnt deserve to lose but sure as shit is smelly didnt deserve to win:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/e/everton/8502191.stm

 

One last parting comment, if we can sell Yak and Anichibe in the summer, do it. Big and strong, yes, but simply put... useless. Sell them both and get 1 decent striker. Why Vic didnt cross the ball or take the shot when he had the chance is beyond me...

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I'm sick to death of feeling this way after derby's, it's happening far too frequently. We bottled it yesterday; manager and players.

 

Another game that demonstrates that Moyes will never be a top 4 manager; top teams want a manager who goes out to win games rather than be more concerned about not losing. Liverpool were there for the taking from the off, nevermind once they were down to 10 men. He should go back to management school and learn some tactics, or rather some new tactics instead of the one dimensional crap he continually serves up. He seemingly does not know how to set up his side to beat the top sides. Sure, he's had the odd victory but nothing that makes you think we could compete with them on a regular basis. The long ball doesn't work ffs! We don't even have the players to make it fucking work! How many times is he going to have to witness that before it penetrates his thick skull? But no, we keep on with it in the hope that Saha will maybe start winning these aimless high balls. It's embarrassing.

 

Then there's the players themselves. I don't think I've witnessed a set of players show so little fight or determination in a derby . It's left me totally dejected. It wasn't all of them but far too many of them. On top of that, there was no penetration or creativity to be seen, far too slow in even trying to make anything happen. We played small time.

 

That all being said, before we lost Felli things looked OK. While we weren't dominating the game we were very comfortable, but once he was gone we totally lost our way. For me, Moyes made the wrong decision by bringing Arteta on for Felli, it wasn't the game to bring Arteta into because the onus fell on him to make something happen and right now he's just not ready for it. It was a move of desperation by Moyes. A better move would have been to push Nevilel into the DM role and bring Coleman on at RB. That way we'd have had a proper DM in there and an attacking outlet down the right. Is Moyes scared to attack? It looks that way.

 

 

 

 

Howard - He's simply not a top keeper. The top keepers make that crucial save etc when they haven't been called into action all game until then. Howard failed to do this.

 

 

Neville - Shocking defending for their goal and was piss poor all game really.

 

 

Heitinga - Solid but even he aimlessly hoofed the ball into Reina's arms. He got my MOTM vote though because he showed fight and actually tried to play for the most part.

 

 

Distin - He is a fucking donkey, but the bitch down.

 

 

Baines - Set pieces much improved which is a relief and generally had a good game, especially when looking to move the play forward.

 

 

Donovan - A bit hit and miss IMO. He showed some good pieces of play and then you wouldn't see him at all for a while.

 

 

Fellaini - Was looking like he was going to dominate the shite's midfield so it's a shame he got injured. He's our most important player based on yesterday so I hope he's not going to miss any games.

 

 

Osman - Started off ok but then disappeared. Another big game and another game of hide and seek for Ossie IMO.

 

 

Pienaar - Very disappointed with him yesterday. He just didn't seem up for it whatsoever, and we needed him to step up and make things happen. Fail.

 

 

Cahill - Worked tirelessly and he was having to do the work of two players with the effort Saha was putting in. He's one of very few players who can hold their heads up high.

 

 

Saha - What a waste of space he was, he needs a massive kick up the arse. He just sulked his way through the game. You'd think a new contract and a pay rise would make you play well or at least try. I know he had very little service but it's not much of an excuse when Yak managed to do more with the same service in a shorter period of time.

 

 

 

So sacking Moyse must be the only way forward then?

 

 

He takes off a DM and puts on an attacking midfielder and you complain he wont attack and yet you want to put another DM in? I can see why he bought Arteta on. The Shite were just set up in two solid banks of four and we needed to try and find a way to break them down so why not put on your most creative player? He looked fit enough to me so I just dont get why people are complaining and saying he wasnt ready

 

To be fair I can see why you would want Coleman on but why put Neville in midfield? I just think people are expecting too much from Coleman he is a good prospect but in reality he has had one nightmare game and two excellent games and people are screaming for him to be included all the time. Moyse sees the lad every day in training and Im sure he knows what he is doing

 

It may not have been the greatest performance but I am totally bemused how anybody can say that we didnt show any fight. It was just a typical derby high on fight and commitment and low on actual football.

Edited February 7, 2010 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Romey 1878]

I was talking about him being linked with the Manure job, it's a joke because he's not good enough for a top job, not unless he radically changes his way of thinking.

 

Arteta may be an attacking midfielder but he was never going to be an attacking substitution when he's not match fit, and it was highlighted by how the play was slowed right down whenever Arteta had the ball. Coleman may be a right back but that would have been a much more attacking change.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Romey 1878

[Philinsuffolk]

I think it's time we have (under a seperate headed discussion item) a SERIOUS discussion about what it is reasonable to expect from the club.

 

All concerned had a bad day yesterday and that is very, very frustrating. I'm hurting too.

 

But we're a second tier club in the top flight (along with Villa, Spurs and for the time being at least City).

 

Sure, sack Moyes and get a manager that can play more fluent football - but they are not easy to find when you can't offer them significant resources to get the right players for the system.

 

It's going to he a tough month but for the record, In Moyes I trust.

[Romey 1878]

Christ, I wasn't saying sack Moyes, but that doesn't mean I have to lick his arse and ignore his obvious faults does it?

 

Moyes can't take us any further, but neither could any manager with our current resources. Even so, that doesn't mean I have to just roll over and accept being the 5th, 6th, 7th etc best team in the country, I truly believe in our motto and have high standards and I refuse to apologise for that.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Romey 1878

[Matt]

 

So sacking Moyse must be the only way forward then?

 

 

He takes off a DM and puts on an attacking midfielder and you complain he wont attack and yet you want to put another DM in? I can see why he bought Arteta on. The Shite were just set up in two solid banks of four and we needed to try and find a way to break them down so why not put on your most creative player? He looked fit enough to me so I just dont get why people are complaining and saying he wasnt ready

 

To be fair I can see why you would want Coleman on but why put Neville in midfield? I just think people are expecting too much from Coleman he is a good prospect but in reality he has had one nightmare game and two excellent games and people are screaming for him to be included all the time. Moyse sees the lad every day in training and Im sure he knows what he is doing

 

It may not have been the greatest performance but I am totally bemused how anybody can say that we didnt show any fight. It was just a typical derby high on fight and commitment and low on actual football.

Putting on a not-fit Arteta to join 3 other AMs and to replace the only DM on the midfieldwas a stupid decision. We needed Neville at DM to keep the shape that has proven so effective recently. If you dont put Pip there, move Johnny up though Neville and Distin isnt a nice prospect in the centre of defence. Mark is right Moyes makes some very strange decisions when it comes to tactics. I know why he put Arteta on, he thought the Talisman effect would win him the game but it wasnt the game for another creative player in the middle, it was a game for someone who can kick seven shades out of the opposition. Then he puts on the 2 laziest players we have on for the last 2 minutes. Strange decisions...

[Hafnia]

Given the nature of the game putting Arteta on was insane. Does anyone think that the likes of carragher and gerrard were thinbking "let's take it easy on him, he's just had a bad injury", I would have moved Neville into centre mid instead of fellaini and played coleman at right back. Arteta is weeks away from being match fit.

 

I do think fans can get a little carried away in their praises of Moyes, I think he has been a fantastic manager for us, but that is not to say he has weaknesses. With Liverpool at 10 men he should have gone with Saha, Yak and Cahill as a 3 pronged attack straight away, it's no good doing that when they were defending a 1-0 lead.

 

I think it's time to drop Saha, maybe it's the only way we can get his attitude to change, not looked himself of recent.

 

All in all just gutted, got to face gloating RS and I haven't got any come backs like the last game where we deserved to win. They out fought and out played us.

[CraccerC]

Neville was NOT goal side of Kuyt (so how can that be arguable?).

One of the first things you get taught as kids is to be goal side and DO NOT let the attacker get goal side.

Neville should not make such STUPID, SCHOOLBOY errors. That is Why Neville is getting blame for the goal (quite simple really).

However, admittedly Howard was also partly at fault. between the two of them they fucked up completely. Both more concerned about playing games with Kuyt than actually defending the corner. Tossers.

 

i see what you're and you're right. all i was trying to say is pip is no mug and he did the same again, could there be a reason for that? personally i think he wasn't goal side because if he was he'd be interfering with howard. the fact he did it again suggests it may be something that has been thought of or practised because as you say, it is usually school boy stuff you always stay goal side. if a balls in or around the 6 yard box and hasn't taken a massive deflection or something out of the ordinary the keeper should be taking them all day everyday.

[Blue 250]

 

 

All in all just gutted, got to face gloating RS and I haven't got any come backs like the last game where we deserved to win. They out fought and out played us.

 

Your gloating RS mates may well have a point in that they out fought us.....but I can't see where they out played us.At halftime jammie Redknapp said he thought Everton where the better team, in the second half we conceded a stupid goal and couldn't manage to break through a packed defence (parked bus as rafa put's it, the tactics of a small team!)......did they really pass the ball around us, set up wave after wave of attacks ?

 

I can remember, not that it did us any good but in the 2nd half we did put a few good passes toghther, sure we went knowhere, but I think we probably passed it more than them.liverpool spent most of the 2nd half punting the ball forward.

 

 

It's been said a million times......"it's not easy to play against 10 men"....sometimes it just seems that is somehow true.liverpool may well have lost a player, but remember we lost probably our most influential player (Fellaini)Ok he was replaced with Arteta with his potential.....thing is he's not there yet is he!

 

No way were liverpool better than us other than the obvious fact they scored a goal.

 

Though on the day they did out fight us, different thing though to out playing us.

 

Moyes has recently put a team out against Arsenal that could and should have won 3-1, even the arsenal manager said we were the better team and deserved it....so Moyes is kinda getting there.....not the finished item, but I for one still want him at Everton.

 

Merseyside derbys all ways throw up these kind of feelings, we had a bad day, we conceded a daft goal, we couldn't break down a packed defence....happened before and will happen again sometime...we've just come off an unbeaten run and we've lost away 1-0 to one of the big money boys......we weren't outplayed by them, they just shut up shop.

 

I think our hurt at losing, is making us overlook some of the above points.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Blue 250

[Bailey]

In a word yes

 

 

I am not under any illusion that we put in some kind of master class performance, It was a typical derby niether side played any real football and neither side had the chance to, such was the level of commitment from both sets of players with tackles flying in everywhere

 

IMO there was no point in the game that the Shite dominated in fact I was sat there at half time fairly content that we had been the better side

 

As I said IMO a moment of madness in which Howard/Neville combined to gift them a goal was the only difference between the sides. After that we just were not good enough to break them down

If Cahills header had gone in and we had of snook it 1-0 everyone would have been on here raving about a job well done but such is the fickle nature of some fans that now there is some kind of witch hunt going on

 

Im not sitting here saying we were robbed but at the same time I agree with Moysey that we did enough to have got something out of the game

 

Some fans yes, but I dont think too many of the regulars on here would have. Just look at match reports on here from matches that we won but didnt do it convincingly (Wigan most recently) and the majority certainly werent rushing to praise the team then. We know how they can play (i.e. Vs Arsenal, City) and that was nowhere near it. If the boys had really put in a shift, got in their faces, stuck in and still lost yes we would be dissapointed but we wouldnt be able to fault their attitude. Yesterday was pathetic. As soon as Felli went off only Cahill, Heitinga, Donovan and somewhat Baines, Yak and Vic put up a fight and offered something more than the rest of them gave.

 

With regards to comments about Osman having a quiet 2nd half, I think a lot of that was to do with the fact that he was used in the Fellaini roll. He isnt in any stretch of the imagination a holding midfielder and IMO thats why he was very quiet. He has played consistently well recently, and was having a good 1st half so I think he should escape some criticism.

[carlmc25]

I don't see how anyone could say we lacked fight, we were getting stuck in all over the pitch and it was one of the fiercest derbies a recent years. We were poor, no two ways about that. We were ok 11 vs 11 and then when they went down to 10 men we seemed to lack the confidence to go on and dominate, we seemed to have a fear about our play and the lack of creativity and cutting edge was embarrassing, it wasn't even like Liverpool were defending like heroes, backs to the wall, it was easy for them. Arteta wasn't ready, he was totally pedestrian. The only players I would say played well were Heitinga (excellent) and Cahill. Typically ,just as I was raving to my brother how Howard was a brilliant keeper and hadn't made a mistake all season - he goes and makes a howler. That being said, we deserved to lose (although Liverpool offered little as an attacking force, the 10 men played into their negative team line up and Benitez's mentality) and I'd rather Liverpool finished 4th then someone like City or Spurs. Pienaar was frustrating and I was glad he got sent off as he deserved it in the first half. Saha was a lazy bum as usual and I was calling for Anichebe to come on at half time, he created about our only decent chance in the second half but took too long making his mind up and the block came in. I rate Anichebe, I think he can make it and the fact that Moyes keeps picking him over Vaughan suggests Moyes does too. I'd like to see him starting games and see what he can do.

[Finn balor]

At last. Someone who has said what i've been thinking. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but surely when Felli was coming off, the sub was coleman on and Neville in midfield? Davey has seen Shameus change games and ultimately create space going forward due to his unpredictability of attack mode. The shite wouldnt have known how to deal with it and in turn would have made space for Landon, who i thought was a credit to the blue shirt(osman take note). Mikkey is not up to speed and it was unfair to put him in that situation. Two last things Distyn is a liability and needs moving on. Some of his clearances due to his unability to kick or put himself in a position to clear the ball with his right foot was embarrassing. Second regardless of if Neviile was goalside or not. Howard allowed a cross to land on Kuyts head without Kuyt moving in his own six yard box!! Fucking disgrace! he should have cleared out Neville first and followed through to Kuyt which im sure Neville would have expected and welcomed!!

[carlmc25]

are you serious youd rather lpool finished 4th rather than city/spurs do you not realize this makes them stronger than us every time they finish in the top 4 do you even understand that i dont know where you come from but you cant be hurting like me /us we have to put up with their bragging day in day out.

Liverpool are always going to be strong, they have the tradition and they are a world famous club, one of the biggest in the world. In the end Spurs will struggle to justify their spending if they keep failing to make the champions league, Villa aren't very good and I don't want them to get the extra monies that go with the Champions League and I don't like City. I have no problem with Liverpool, my brother is a Liverpool fan so in a perfect world for me we'd be first and they would be second. Not all Everton fans despise Lverpool, although it does make work more enjoyable when you can mock your friends after a derby win. At the end of the day, I was hoping we could push on for 4th, it was unrealistic and now it's basically over so I can stop getting my hopes up and pin them on the Europa. Just a pity we didn't win seeing how Spurs, City and Villa didn't win either.

[inertia8]

Having looked at the replays tonight.

 

Pienaar, should have had a straight red for the potential leg-breaker.

 

Fellaini, appears to stomp on dirty hairy greek bastard's calf.. perhaps a red card as well, atleast a yellow. I honestly don't know why he was injured in the clash, I cannot see anything to have caused a major leg injury, other than rolling his ankle upon landing on dirty hairy greek bastard's calf!!

 

There was also an incident in our penalty area where Fellaini seems have gotten away with pushing a red over.

 

Perhaps Carragher's tackle on Pienaar set the tone for our players and the game spiraled from that... the ref should have asserted himself strongly early on, instead we ended up with a game that was pure shite.

 

 

Edited for clarity: FYI Soti is just shortening the greek's first name (Sotirios)...

Edited February 9, 2010 by inertia8

[inertia8]

I'll revise that, from the angles that i have recorded, I cannot see Felli's right ankle being over extended etc. Anyone got a high quality feed or different angle.. certainly the replay at slow motion makes felli look somewhat guilty, the replay at normal speed from the broadcast down angle is harder to read.

[Finn balor]

Im not being funny but what was Felli supposed to do? He can see the lad coming in with two feet so in my eyes if he doesnt raise his foot and keeps his foot grounded his shin could have been snapped.

[Romey 1878]

At the time I was convinced Felli was getting sent off, it was a shocking stamp IMO. We were just lucky that the ref only saw what the Greek did.

[craigb]

what is it with people calling that greek dickhead soti?? why the hell are blues nicknaming red shite players? His name is Kyrgiakos..

 

Sorry im just pissed off after reading the whole thread, just brought back bad memories from the weekend

[Lowensda]

what is it with people calling that greek dickhead soti?? why the hell are blues nicknaming red shite players? His name is Kyrgiakos..

Sorry im just pissed off after reading the whole thread, just brought back bad memories from the weekend

 

Thank you!! See my post in the Fellaini section Craig. does my nod in aswel!

[Churinga2]

 

I think this is a clear fault by Kuyt on Howard. Am I the only one?

[MikeO]

Don't know....a lot of pushing and pulling and the keeper normally gets the benefit of any doubt.

 

I'd completely avoided seeing it up until now. Tragic .

[Blue 250]

I'm pretty sure when the red twot actually gets his head on the ball he has at least one foot on the ground!!....he's in the middle of the goal....he hasn't had to jump to win the ball, yet he still gets something on it.What a terrible goal to concede

 

I had put a lot of the blame onto Neville, but looking at the tragic scene a few times you have to wonder why Howard didn't just impose himself on the situation, it was HIS ball!

 

He (Howard) and Neville should be made to watch that clip for a complete training session over and over again.

 

Just think we were pretty poor, but if we'd defended that corner better we would have got a point.

[Bailey]

There is no way there was a foul on Howard, although the ref did give a similar bullshit decision in favour of Reina earlier on in the game. Both Howard and Pip are at fault, its absolutely shocking from both of them. They are on the backfoot, more interested in the player than the ball and let the team down badly. In fact its fucking pathetic, I wouldnt expect an under 10's team to defend like that...

 

When I saw the Felli challenge in slow mo you can see his ankle rotate outwards which is probably the most unnatural movement you can have on your ankle and you can quite easily do ligament/tendon damage as the joint opens. I dont think it will be bad long term damage but I expect he will be out for around 5 games.