Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[MikeO]

Problem is the bastard things are getting more expensive....!

 

I agree; burial plots are a criminal price these days, so even if you don't choose cremation you get burned .

 

(Sorry, on reflection may have misunderstood )

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Yakubu was pretty consistent till he did his Achilles in.

That's bollocks he was playing shite way before he got injured

[Newty82]

 

I agree; burial plots are a criminal price these days, so even if you don't choose cremation you get burned .

 

(Sorry, on reflection may have misunderstood )

Haha!!! No no, you didn't misunderstand. I was indeed talking about the extortionate pricing of burial plots!!!

[Matt]

That's bollocks he was playing shite way before he got injured

Wouldnt go that far and I was never a fan of his. He certainly was the laziest striker I've seen, in his first season at least. Then he was asked to change his style of play and be more involved in the workload, working the wings etc. then his goals dried up.

 

Sounds familiar, doesn't it....

[Hafnia]

Let's be honest, moyes didn't so much want strikers doing things like pressing and holding up play. That's to be expected from any strikers.

 

He wanted them to play as wingers and set up Cahill, run back, run forward. Anywhere but the penalty area.

[Matt]

Let's be honest, moyes didn't so much want strikers doing things like pressing and holding up play. That's to be expected from any strikers.

 

He wanted them to play as wingers and set up Cahill, run back, run forward. Anywhere but the penalty area.

My point was that the manager ruined a good striker by making him do something he wasn't comfortable doing. I used to get so angry with Yak for being lazy but saw the importance of a striker saving his energy with Jelavic, another striker who could bag a bucket load of goals until he was asked to play as the hold-up guy....

 

Different point, Lukaku is responsible for 25% of our goals this season in the EPL (1 assist, 7 scored).

[Hafnia]

My point was that the manager ruined a good striker by making him do something he wasn't comfortable doing. I used to get so angry with Yak for being lazy but saw the importance of a striker saving his energy with Jelavic, another striker who could bag a bucket load of goals until he was asked to play as the hold-up guy....

 

Different point, Lukaku is responsible for 25% of our goals this season in the EPL (1 assist, 7 scored).

 

 

To put that into context Fellaini was responsible for over 35% of goals for us in his last season, in that very same season Benteke was responsible for over 60% of Villas goals, suraez, van persie, michu, fletcher, lambert all over 40% - its not a great stat Matt.

 

Rom as a striker has been directly responsible for 2 conceded goals too.

[Matt]

To put that into context Fellaini was responsible for over 35% of goals for us in his last season, in that very same season Benteke was responsible for over 60% of Villas goals, suraez, van persie, michu, fletcher, lambert all over 40% - its not a great stat Matt.

 

Rom as a striker has been directly responsible for 2 conceded goals too.

Again, you're missing the point. I don't care about the other strikers, nor am I interested in comparing last season (which I've already done once before, he was responsible for 40% last season despite missing nearly 2 months)

 

I care about what he is doing for us. 25% of the goals in less than half a season where he is getting no support and is apparently lazy and generally crap. More than anyone else.

[Hafnia]

Again, you're missing the point. I don't care about the other strikers, nor am I interested in comparing last season (which I've already done once before, he was responsible for 40% last season despite missing nearly 2 months)

 

I care about what he is doing for us. 25% of the goals in less than half a season where he is getting no support and is apparently lazy and generally crap. More than anyone else.

 

I don't really support the stat unless it is put into some sort of context.

 

Its like saying James McCarthy is responsible for making the largest percentage of tackles, Jagielka the most headers won etc etc - its their job.

 

Lukaku has had more game time as the most advanced player in the team who's job it is to score goals - the only way you can compare his "success" is to verify that stat against players doing the same job for nother teams, which shows that his perfromance is nothing to write home about.

 

The 25% may increase or it may decrease depending on whether he gets benched and the success of other players doing his job. Barring the goal that was removed from Naismith he has the best goals per minutes, the best chance conversion.

 

No player has had more shots on goal than Lukaku - 37. So its not like we are starving him relative to any other player. Naismith has had 15 shots but is only goal behind him if you include his disallowed effort.

 

In short. Lukaku has more opportunities to score than anyone else yet his conversion rate is lower.

 

******edit:- One telling stat is "fouls suffered" for me - this is where you can often identify a player who adds value to his team. They are getting amongst the opposition, no surprises - Naismith is far and away the leader with 33 fouls suffered, Baines is next on 24, McCarthy on 20, Rom has 13. Naismith is up there with the likes of Hazard.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Hafnia

[Matt]

I give up. You flat out refuse to acknowledge any positives, too busy trying to find fault instead.

[Hafnia]

I give up. You flat out refuse to acknowledge any positives, too busy trying to find fault instead.

 

i'm honestly not - i'm establishing whther 25% is indeed a positive? put into context I don't think it is.

[Matt]

i'm honestly not - i'm establishing whther 25% is indeed a positive? put into context I don't think it is.

Its the only positive from the team at the moment, let alone his performances (which I'm struggling to defend in recent weeks). Without his goals we would be bottom, and thats whilst he's not on form nor being played in a way that maximizes his strengths.

 

I don't see how comparing him to Suarez and RVP is putting things into context, or how fouls suffered counts for anything (see Pienaar). The context I see is a single player in the team is responsible for a quarter of the goals. If the team gets its acts together and starts to chip in, or starts playing to Roms strengths, we'll see a vast and rapid improvement (stating the obvious, I know )

[Hafnia]

Its the only positive from the team at the moment, let alone his performances (which I'm struggling to defend in recent weeks). Without his goals we would be bottom, and thats whilst he's not on form nor being played in a way that maximizes his strengths.

 

I don't see how comparing him to Suarez and RVP is putting things into context, or how fouls suffered counts for anything (see Pienaar). The context I see is a single player in the team is responsible for a quarter of the goals. If the team gets its acts together and starts to chip in, or starts playing to Roms strengths, we'll see a vast and rapid improvement (stating the obvious, I know )

 

I think the lambert, benteke, michu etc thrown in adds variety to the class of striker.

 

Some things can't be measured and only when a player isn't there that the fans realise what they give. James McCarthy is an example of this. Without him we are pedestrian - he sets the tone for the team. Tempo, aggression.

[Newty82]

 

Different point, Lukaku is responsible for 25% of our goals this season in the EPL (1 assist, 7 scored).

Your argument is flawed...He had 6 goals and 2 assists!!!

 

Anyway, someone posted earlier his mileage. Fair play to that. That's a surprise. Because his reputation is of being a bit lazy...Google it...but that doesn't mean all the time. Maybe he just is in spells? The last few games he certainly has appeared more on the lazy side. But yeah, clearly when 'on it' he covers a lot of ground.

 

In terms of him not having any chances created for him (a big argument here), he is actually 5th in the Premiership for the number of shots by a single player (which I assume equates to a chance?). He has 49 (30 inside area, 19 outside). Everton as a team are 10th for chances created, 162. So I don't know, has a third of our chances fell to Lukaku???

 

Either way, he has scored 6 league goals out of those 49 shots. Not a great conversion rate of chances. Although he gets 59% on target...which is pretty good, so it ain't that he can't hit a barn door!!!

 

its not a bash by the way. It's a stat. Just like the mileage, just like Matt ' s 'responsible for 25% of league goals'. He does get chances. As soon as he starts converting them, we'll be flying!!!

[markjazzbassist]

he's got a what 4 or 5 year contract? until that's over we can't judge him yet, he ain't done.

[Matt]

he's got a what 4 or 5 year contract? until that's over we can't judge him yet, he ain't done.

 

we certainly can't judge his Everton career, but we can judge his form. My problem is that the good he does is greatly overshadowed by individual mistakes that get focused on. no problems with commenting on them, if they're factually right (and backed up with proof), but to ignore the bigger picture and use him as a scapegoat is incredibly frustrating to me, especially when there are much worse players in the team escaping the same scrutiny and criticism.

[Newty82]

he's got a what 4 or 5 year contract? until that's over we can't judge him yet, he ain't done.

Same can be said of Martinez.

[Newty82]

we certainly can't judge his Everton career, but we can judge his form. My problem is that the good he does is greatly overshadowed by individual mistakes that get focused on. no problems with commenting on them, if they're factually right (and backed up with proof), but to ignore the bigger picture and use him as a scapegoat is incredibly frustrating to me, especially when there are much worse players in the team escaping the same scrutiny and criticism.

You're right of course about the scapegoat side of things. There are plenty of faults within the team. I personally don't really think he has been a scapegoat as such, but definitely has had the brunt of frustration.

 

A fair few are off their game just now.

[Hafnia]

He's not a scapegoat, he is a focal point for the team.

 

He's top earner along with Barry who pisses me off.

 

£75k a week. So are we meant to treat him as though he is like mcaleny on £2000 a week? Well supposedly so because he's only 21.

 

If Coleman plays shite, which he has, Coleman gets shit, as does jags, barry, baines. It's just that the violins and excuses don't come out for them.

 

It's as if some fans still think that he was too good for us and we should all be greatful for choosing to earn his £75k a week with us.

[Matt]

You're right of course about the scapegoat side of things. There are plenty of faults within the team. I personally don't really think he has been a scapegoat as such, but definitely has had the brunt of frustration.

A fair few are off their game just now.

scapegoat, focal point, whatever. The only other players to get (rightly or wrongly) the same level of stick are Howard and Distin! Bad form has been acknowledged regarding several of the squad but no one wants to rip them to shreds that I've seen.

[Matt]

He's not a scapegoat, he is a focal point for the team.

He's top earner along with Barry who pisses me off.

£75k a week. So are we meant to treat him as though he is like mcaleny on £2000 a week? Well supposedly so because he's only 21.

If Coleman plays shite, which he has, Coleman gets shit, as does jags, barry, baines. It's just that the violins and excuses don't come out for them.

It's as if some fans still think that he was too good for us and we should all be greatful for choosing to earn his £75k a week with us.

hes not being the focal point though, he's being asked to blend in. If he was the focal point of the team, we would be much better off.

 

I'm not going into the money side of it, no reflection of his ability so irrelevant.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Matt

[Hafnia]

hes not being the focal point though, he's being asked to blend in. If he was the focal point of the team, we would be much better off.

He's the focal point because he is lone striker who can't hold the ball up. The play breaks down so often because of him. It's poor and even more poor that Roberto persists with him.

 

Until he can trap a ball without thinking then he will never be there. Without never understanding how to use his weight and frame he will never be strong enough.

Without having the heart to challenge a player he will never be brave enough.

 

 

We should not be talking about him. It should be kone or eto that we are talking about. Take him out of the firing line. Under 21's and get him educated. It may do him good.

 

You are right, a 21 year old lad shouldn't be getting this much shit, that's his managers fault. Bravo for standing up for him but in terms of performance it just ain't up to standard.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Jesus its like groundhog day around here !

[Matt]

He's the focal point because he is lone striker who can't hold the ball up. The play breaks down so often because of him. It's poor and even more poor that Roberto persists with him.

Until he can trap a ball without thinking then he will never be there. Without never understanding how to use his weight and frame he will never be strong enough.

Without having the heart to challenge a player he will never be brave enough.

We should not be talking about him. It should be kone or eto that we are talking about. Take him out of the firing line. Under 21's and get him educated. It may do him good.

You are right, a 21 year old lad shouldn't be getting this much shit, that's his managers fault. Bravo for standing up for him but in terms of performance it just ain't up to standard.

alternatively, the manager can start to play to his prize assists abilities, get some confidence back and become the striker we all hope and know he can be

[Newty82]

I've never really touched on the money side if thing (I don't think anyway???). But the only thing I would say is that it generally is a reflection on 'worth' in any walk of life.

 

We as individuals create our own value. Others then put trust in us that we are true to that value. If we don't meet that value, it's our fault. For example, if I do a go for a higher ranking job with a higher ranking salary and 'talk' myself into that job but then don't deliver, who's to blame? Do I then deserve such a salary?

 

You can bet your life that if in 3 seasons time Lukaku has struggled to get 12 goals a season, he'll be said to be a waste of money. If however he gets 25 goals a season and fires us to cup finals and Champions League football, and the riches that come with it, he'll be a bargain. Especially if he then gets sold for £50 million. A good bit of business.

 

For me, fees and wages are very relevant. And that doesn't just apply to Lukaku.

 

McAleny... £2k per week? No wonder these boys lose focus!!!

[Hafnia]

I think the young pros get approx £2k a week. Which is fair enough, they could get a horror tackle and be finished.

[ForEverton2]

He's the focal point because he is lone striker who can't hold the ball up. The play breaks down so often because of him. It's poor and even more poor that Roberto persists with him.

 

Until he can trap a ball without thinking then he will never be there. Without never understanding how to use his weight and frame he will never be strong enough.

Without having the heart to challenge a player he will never be brave enough.

 

 

We should not be talking about him. It should be kone or eto that we are talking about. Take him out of the firing line. Under 21's and get him educated. It may do him good.

 

You are right, a 21 year old lad shouldn't be getting this much shit, that's his managers fault. Bravo for standing up for him but in terms of performance it just ain't up to standard.

He could probably learn a thing or two from Bony in that respect.

[Newty82]

I think the young pros get approx £2k a week. Which is fair enough, they could get a horror tackle and be finished.

Or they could find women, boozers and fast cars and be finished!!!

 

Nah, they get the going rate I suppose. It's just a lot of money to throw at a young person. Unless you are well grounded, you'll lose focus. And I do wonder if this is the real reason so few make it. Anyway, that's another topic all together!!!

[marcopaulo]

Annoyed me so much today...sometimes you think he's realised he's a powerhouse and used his body well..next time he's limper then a rats tail...shooting was dog shit too..

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/andy-gray-says-time-everton-8383186