Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[Hafnia]

Sorry Shukes, missed this. Even the boss is labeling its as over-sensationalized by the media and that its nothing.

 

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2015/01/08/boss-on-lukaku

 

Lets leave it there

 

“I am always talking with the players and we try to share a lot of information.

 

“It has come out in a way that it seems it was a one-off meeting and that we’d never spoken before! It was the normal approach. We need to use players in specific ways from game to game to get better performances and against West Ham I thought Rom had a very effective game.

 

“We used him really, really well. His pace and power was at its very best and he became a real threat. There was nothing different in preparing for that game than we would previously.”

 

 

I'll be honest, I expected Martinez to react angrily and vilify the player in public. I don't think for one minute he may take Rom to one side and gently explain to him that as a player he needs to be economical and choose his words carefully. That would be something that a good man manager would do.

 

Now that Martinez has missed his opportunity to tell the press exactly what he thinks then that will be case closed - after all if he doesn't say it to the press then it hasn't been said. After all, all managers tell the press everuything don't they?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Hafnia

[Hafnia]

And you're pedantic about ignoring points. Subjective is last on a list of things when it comes to this lad.

 

Where did I say I know that? There are media coordinators in all clubs and organisations who control what questions can be asked by the press and to who. They're usually reviewed before the interview even takes place. Thats a standard practice for any media interview that I've seen or been part of, so I assume its applied to our team to. I will admit thats an assumption. Comparing Rom to the likes of Rooney and Barkley is plain silly; neither are capable of remembering anything but cliches.

 

Who caused a storm?! You seem to be the only one with an issue here. Hardly storm mate.

 

I don't care what the national team coach thinks either. You could argue that the manager should be keeping his opinions to himself, as it can be damaging for the player. But you shouldn't argue that, because its nonsense. Its my opinion that a player has the right to share his opinion. Simple as that. Or should I not be making my opinion public, you know, for the good of the forum?

 

I know all about how and what happens with the media thanks Matt. Moyes controlled this to the n'th degree and I know this from an ex club employee that I am friends with. Martinez has allowed the players more freedom but I guess that may all change.

[Matt]

 

“I am always talking with the players and we try to share a lot of information.

 

“It has come out in a way that it seems it was a one-off meeting and that we’d never spoken before! It was the normal approach. We need to use players in specific ways from game to game to get better performances and against West Ham I thought Rom had a very effective game.

 

“We used him really, really well. His pace and power was at its very best and he became a real threat. There was nothing different in preparing for that game than we would previously.”

 

 

I'll be honest, I expected Martinez to react angrily and vilify the player in public. I don't think for one minute he may take Rom to one side and gently explain to him that as a player he needs to be economical and choose his words carefully. That would be something that a good man manager would do.

 

Now that Martinez has missed his opportunity to tell the press exactly what he thinks then that will be case closed - after all if he doesn't say it to the press then it hasn't been said. After all, all managers tell the press everuything don't they?

Ah sarcasm

 

Of course not. Doesn't mean that Martinez also sees no issue with it either.

 

Lets leave it at this then;

 

you don't like players giving their opinion, but are ok with managers doing it even when its openly criticizing young players. You also don't want to take this clarification from Martinez at face value.

 

I'm ok with anyone expressing their opinion and trust Martinez when he says there's nothing in it.

 

Since we cannot prove anything either way, let it drop.

[Matt]

 

I know all about how and what happens with the media thanks Matt. Moyes controlled this to the n'th degree and I know this from an ex club employee that I am friends with. Martinez has allowed the players more freedom but I guess that may all change.

If you know all about it (didn't realise you worked in media, I was making assumptions based on a couple of experiences), then you know that players are given a green light to answer, so I don't get this "giving his opinion is out of line".

 

On his other comments, anything to say about his ambitions for silverware this season?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Matt

[MC11]

 

I am always talking with the players and we try to share a lot of information.

 

It has come out in a way that it seems it was a one-off meeting and that wed never spoken before! It was the normal approach. We need to use players in specific ways from game to game to get better performances and against West Ham I thought Rom had a very effective game.

 

We used him really, really well. His pace and power was at its very best and he became a real threat. There was nothing different in preparing for that game than we would previously.

 

 

I'll be honest, I expected Martinez to react angrily and vilify the player in public. I don't think for one minute he may take Rom to one side and gently explain to him that as a player he needs to be economical and choose his words carefully. That would be something that a good man manager would do.

 

Now that Martinez has missed his opportunity to tell the press exactly what he thinks then that will be case closed - after all if he doesn't say it to the press then it hasn't been said. After all, all managers tell the press everuything don't they?

Considering the man is always as cool as a cucumber in front of the media it was always highly unlikely he'd react angrily. I wouldn't have expected any other reaction from him... Even if he is angry. Edited January 8, 2015 by MC11

[Romey 1878]

Haf, you had no problem when Naismith came out after the West Ham game and had (what you perceived) as a dig at Rom in previous games, so why has this bothered you so much?

 

I don't think it shows anything in a negative light tbh, if anything it shows that the players were proactive and showed initiative, and it also showed that there's an open relationship between the management and players and there's a will to listen and compromise. Not, as you think, Rom saying he's sorted everything out just because he had a word with Roberto.

 

You've blown this out of all proportion, mate.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Wow, I came on expecting Lukaku (and the other players, he did say WE asked Roberto, after all) to be getting a bit of praise due to them spotting a problem and trying to rectify it. Instead, I find Lukaku getting bombed.

 

I didn't see anything wrong with the article - I doubt Rom went looking for an interviewer but one found him and asked something along the lines of "so, the team performed miles better against West Ham, is there a particular reason for that or are things just finally clicking?"

 

 

Lol Are you honestly surprised?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Haf, you had no problem when Naismith came out after the West Ham game and had (what you perceived) as a dig at Rom in previous games, so why has this bothered you so much?

 

I don't think it shows anything in a negative light tbh, if anything it shows that the players were proactive and showed initiative, and it also showed that there's an open relationship between the management and players and there's a will to listen and compromise. Not, as you think, Rom saying he's sorted everything out just because he had a word with Roberto.

 

You've blown this out of all proportion, mate.

 

 

Spot on

 

As far as I can tell there is only one man on the planet that has been offended by it

[Romey 1878]

 

 

Lol Are you honestly surprised?

Not really .

[MikeO]

As far as I can tell there is only one man on the planet that has been offended by it

 

Who's that then? I've been visiting Mars most of today so a bit out of the loop.

[Hafnia]

Haf, you had no problem when Naismith came out after the West Ham game and had (what you perceived) as a dig at Rom in previous games, so why has this bothered you so much?

 

I don't think it shows anything in a negative light tbh, if anything it shows that the players were proactive and showed initiative, and it also showed that there's an open relationship between the management and players and there's a will to listen and compromise. Not, as you think, Rom saying he's sorted everything out just because he had a word with Roberto.

 

You've blown this out of all proportion, mate.

I'm more than happy for players to cajole their peers. Naismith is a senior player who carries weight in terms of experience. Lukaku as I'm always reminded is 21, he's still learning and needs his focus aligning

 

When I was 21 senior players helped/bollocked me. Martinez has done a good job at reducing the pressure on Rom. Yet Rom took it upon himself to undermine his manager. Whether it happened is irrelevant, the fact that Durham and gough were talking about it tonight in depth says a lot.

[c1982]

When I was 21 senior players helped/bollocked me.

Who did you play for?

[Romey 1878]

I'm more than happy for players to cajole their peers. Naismith is a senior player who carries weight in terms of experience. Lukaku as I'm always reminded is 21, he's still learning and needs his focus aligning

 

When I was 21 senior players helped/bollocked me. Martinez has done a good job at reducing the pressure on Rom. Yet Rom took it upon himself to undermine his manager. Whether it happened is irrelevant, the fact that Durham and gough were talking about it tonight in depth says a lot.

It's not the bollocking I was getting at. You're unhappy that Lukaku publicly stated these things, but that's what Naismith did and you're fine with it. So are you happy for players you like to do it, or say things that you agree with?

 

Gough and Durham? Those two bastions of football knowledge? Consider me convinced now, Haf, Lukaku has been a very naughty boy indeed!

[JoeQuince]

You clearly have authoritarian ideals of what a manager SHOULD be. Martinez obviously doesn't fit that role for you. But, rather than recognize this rift in your ideologies, you're blaming Lukaku for talking about something that he and Martinez are completely comfortable with him speaking about. I don't get it.

[Hafnia]

You clearly have authoritarian ideals of what a manager SHOULD be. Martinez obviously doesn't fit that role for you. But, rather than recognize this rift in your ideologies, you're blaming Lukaku for talking about something that he and Martinez are completely comfortable with him speaking about. I don't get it.

That's the point Joe, is Martinez happy about it? He has no point but to appear ok about it.

 

Apparently he wasn't too pleased about garbutts interview, so can't see how he will be with this. Hey ho, we will never know until a book comes out.

[Hafnia]

Who did you play for?

Ha ha, I read that back and it looked like I played to a high level!! Not bad level, west cheshire prem. Sean Thornton who scored against Chelsea for Sunderland was playing for the team I represented not long ago. Bit of a waste.

[Cornish Steve]

I expected Martinez to react angrily and vilify the player in public.

 

There was a time when I was one of the principal spokespeople for a big corporation. Many in that position go through extensive training (although I confess that I never did). Analysts and reporters and bankers and investors are professionals, and they know how to get information out of you. You learn over time how to use their questions to get your message across rather than give the answers they seek. I've seen representatives of other companies give away sensitive information and regret it later, so even official spokespeople can mess up. Sometimes you have to be evasive, other times not so because that in itself would be interpreted wrongly. At other times you must stonewall and say you can't comment, but that too can be reported the wrong way in the press. It's all a game. In general, it's better to answer a question other than the one asked or to repeat what you've said before.

 

Here we're talking about players, not trained spokespeople. Yes, they're given instruction, but they aren't a match for a good questioner. They'll sometimes say things they shouldn't, but so be it. They learn from it, the manager deals with it, and you move on. In this light, there's no way Martinez should react angrily. Neither should he raise the issue to clarify. If he's asked, he can trivialize it and move on. For me, this is a complete non-story.

[Paddock]

Maybe Lukaku was just trying to live up to his 28 million price tag as a record signing he probsbly thinks (quite rightly) he's a senior player.

 

Lad gets slagged for his price tag then when he steps up to the plate and does something pro-active he's out of line

[Romey 1878]

Apologies if I've missed this already having been posted.

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-happy-direct-football-8410054

[Hafnia]

Maybe Lukaku was just trying to live up to his 28 million price tag as a record signing he probsbly thinks (quite rightly) he's a senior player.

 

Lad gets slagged for his price tag then when he steps up to the plate and does something pro-active he's out of line

 

Nah, the lad has a bad game and can't control a ball - that's when he's 21. When he doesn't score or plays bad then the Jpeg showing number of goals scored by the time a player is 21 years old along with Neymar and co pops up.

 

Being pro-active I have no problems with, all professional footballers should continually look at ways of keeping ahead of the game.

 

If Martinez treats them like adults, which from what I am seeing he is doing then its a great thing. The unfortunate problem is that it can lead to problems.

 

I'll use an example:-

 

Roy Evans. At Liverpool he was part of the furniture. He coached under 4 successful managers, Shankley, Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish. After coaching under a no nonsense manager in Souness it was his time to have a crack at the big job.

 

Evans was actually doing a great job after Souness. Bought well and brought the likes of McManaman, Fowler and Redknapp into the first team much more than they were previously and finished runners up in the league. The problem he had was that the younger players found him a soft touch - the spice boys. He gave them a bit of freedom and they took advantage - Mark Wright hated some of the young lads for the way in which they took the mickey.

[marcopaulo]

Jesus

[Lowensda]

Jesus

This is how I imagined you saying it...

 

http://youtu.be/Rvd3lPnVb9E

[Paddock]

Apologies if I've missed this already having been posted.

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-happy-direct-football-8410054

I'm fine with this, nobody wants us to be long ball merchants but at least he's showing an ability to not be stubborn.

 

I honestly hope he turns this round I really do. Starting. Tomorrow.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/player-power-healthy-thing-everton-8415358

 

"

Romelu Lukaku came out afterwards and said that the players had been an influence in that slight change of emphasis.

Quite how much say they had in the change we will never know.

But I don’t think it is an unhealthy thing that players are invited by a manager and his coaches to have some input into tactics.

That is a sign of a manager who is confident of his position and sure of his position within the group.

I am sure some would read negative things into it but I am willing to believe it was a positive factor.

And the net result was a much better Everton performance"

[Sibdane]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/player-power-healthy-thing-everton-8415358

 

"

Romelu Lukaku came out afterwards and said that the players had been an influence in that slight change of emphasis.

Quite how much say they had in the change we will never know.

But I don’t think it is an unhealthy thing that players are invited by a manager and his coaches to have some input into tactics.

That is a sign of a manager who is confident of his position and sure of his position within the group.

I am sure some would read negative things into it but I am willing to believe it was a positive factor.

And the net result was a much better Everton performance"

This. A manager should be able to listen to his players. For all the criticism he's received for not being dynamic lately, this is the perfect action to prove the naysayers wrong.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Pretty much what most of us have been saying really but Greg O'keefe sums it up perfectly for me in todays Echo

 

The long balls, the short balls, the slow ones and the fast all helped Romelu Lukaku deliver his best performance of the season.

But so did being dropped.

Everton’s record signing played like a man who had something to prove after being a substitute for the two previous games.

As well as the improved variation and tempo in the Blues play on Tuesday night against West Ham, it was undeniable that Lukaku worked harder than he has done of late.

Or as Steven Naismith put it, Big Rom “showed a bit more enthusiasm.”

Lukaku showed a hunger and desire on Tuesday night that has been missing of late and that needs to be his default setting, not in exceptional circumstances.

 

And not because he has been dropped.

Lukaku has often struggled to string a run of form together – impressive one game, significantly less so the next – but now is the time to buck the trend.

If Everton are to defeat Manchester City, end a run of four straight defeats in the league and ‘turn the corner’ then Lukaku needs to be as good as he was in midweek.

Maybe even better.

Long balls, short balls, fast ones and short, Lukaku still needs to work as hard as he did.

Edited January 10, 2015 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Hafnia]

Okeefe nailed it, absolutely nailed it. Far too much has been made of our style of play, for me it wasn't that, it was Roms attitude.

 

Its a worry, for years we had Duncan ferguson frustrating us when he wasn't quite interested. The thing is, when he wasn't interested he still had a minimum level of quality that was higher than Roms. When Rom isn't interested he really is shite.

 

I understand Ferguson after reading his book. He wasn't lazy, it wasn't that he didn't care. He needed to be accountable, he needed to be given a challenge. He was a better player than we seen, his natural football talent was up there with the best. I'm reading Ronnie O'Sullivan's book at the moment. He is the most talented Snooker player ever but suffers from his chimp brain taking over.

 

I actually think Rom needs sports psychology. He needs to understand his triggers. As ive said before he is either 9-10 out of ten or 5-6 out of ten. There is no standard.

 

Players like McCarthy or naismith will get you 7/10 as a minimum because if their mentality. Even when things ain't great they stick at it and work for the team.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Okeefe nailed it, absolutely nailed it. Far too much has been made of our style of play, for me it wasn't that, it was Roms attitude.

 

Its a worry, for years we had Duncan ferguson frustrating us when he wasn't quite interested. The thing is, when he wasn't interested he still had a minimum level of quality that was higher than Roms. When Rom isn't interested he really is shite.

 

I understand Ferguson after reading his book. He wasn't lazy, it wasn't that he didn't care. He needed to be accountable, he needed to be given a challenge. He was a better player than we seen, his natural football talent was up there with the best. I'm reading Ronnie O'Sullivan's book at the moment. He is the most talented Snooker player ever but suffers from his chimp brain taking over.

 

I actually think Rom needs sports psychology. He needs to understand his triggers. As ive said before he is either 9-10 out of ten or 5-6 out of ten. There is no standard.

 

Players like McCarthy or naismith will get you 7/10 as a minimum because if their mentality. Even when things ain't great they stick at it and work for the team.

 

 

Ha ha did you actually agree with the first sentence as well?

 

The long balls, the short balls, the slow ones and the fast all helped Romelu Lukaku deliver his best performance of the season

 

If that is not referring to the style of play / service into him then I don't know what is

 

Numerous people have said in here it was a bit of both but you have refused to acknowledge that so far so Im surprised that you think O'keefe has nailed it

[Hafnia]

 

 

Ha ha did you actually agree with the first sentence as well?

 

The long balls, the short balls, the slow ones and the fast all helped Romelu Lukaku deliver his best performance of the season

 

If that is not referring to the style of play / service into him then I don't know what is

 

Numerous people have said in here it was a bit of both but you have refused to acknowledge that so far so Im surprised that you think O'keefe has nailed it

No I think it's you who has misinterpreted it Duncan. Okeefe is basically saying that too much is made of what type of ball or service he gets. He had a mixture and played well and it was his attitude that was telling, not the type of pass.

 

I've read it several times and its clear to me that okeefe is identifying that Roms attitude is the key, not the pass as he didn't just receive one type all night.

[Hafnia]

https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02glzwf/player?chromeless

 

Well said Mr Nevin. Glad to see he's got the balls to say it.