Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[Hafnia]

And you never do that, do you?

 

Petulance?! I have a different conclusion, how is that petulant?

 

I'm not discrediting your opinion, or the work you put in (fair play by the way), I just don't agree with your conclusion.

 

you aren't the only one - and yes your response was petulant. To be honest I should not have dignified it with a response.

 

How can your conclusion to a statistical "fact" be different? the only difference is right or wrong in this case. There is no landscape for difference in conclusion.

 

unless you are saying that either Kane didn't actually score a goal for every 17.78 key passes versus Roms goal for every 23.4 key passes then how can you possibly have a different conclusion - absolutely impossible.

[rubecula]

GAAH ok we get it Lukaku is shite and should never play again, in fact the entire team, no the entire club is shite and we should all go out and buy season tickets for Tranmere or Wrexham anyone other than that load of shite in Blue.

 

 

Right have I missed anything out?

[Matt]

 

you aren't the only one - and yes your response was petulant. To be honest I should not have dignified it with a response.

 

How can your conclusion to a statistical "fact" be different? the only difference is right or wrong in this case. There is no landscape for difference in conclusion.

 

unless you are saying that either Kane didn't actually score a goal for every 17.78 key passes versus Roms goal for every 23.4 key passes then how can you possibly have a different conclusion - absolutely impossible.

I don't come to the same conclusion as you, that's hardly "the quality of being childishly sulky or bad-tempered". I'm saying it's not as simple as you've made it out to be. I understand your point, I've acknowledged your effort, I disagree. If anything, you're the petulant one here because you don't like that I disagree with you.

 

In the same way you dismiss facts because they're not as simple as they appear (goals scored vs appearances, more goals at a certain age vs others). Or do you accept those facts now?

[Hafnia]

I don't come to the same conclusion as you, that's hardly "the quality of being childishly sulky or bad-tempered". I'm saying it's not as simple as you've made it out to be. I understand your point, I've acknowledged your effort, I disagree. If anything, you're the petulant one here because you don't like that I disagree with you.

 

In the same way you dismiss facts because they're not as simple as they appear (goals scored vs appearances, more goals at a certain age vs others). Or do you accept those facts now?

How can we possibly get closer to a level playing field than to normalise both players goal returns by analysing these returns versus the number of key passes made? We can't.

 

If i said to you "kane scores 1 goal for every 40 key passes made and Lukaku scores a goal for every 25 key passes made" you would have taken great delight that it had proven that Kane scores more goals because he gets more chances....

 

The fact is it doesn't. Kane scores more goals because he is a more efficient goal scorer. He scores a goal for every 17 key passes, much better than Rom. Ok I've blown a misconception out the water... it happens.

 

 

As for "goals scored by a player at x age" absolutely one of the worst headline stats I've ever seen. The inconsistencies in the comparisons are so ridiculous.

 

I'm wasting my time.... I've made the facts. They aren't incorrect.... they aren't open to interpretation .... they are black and white.

 

Anyhow.... I needn't say anything else. The stats and facts are there.

 

Out of here.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Hafnia

[Matt]

How can we possibly get closer to a level playing field than to normalise both players goal returns by analysing these returns versus the number of key passes made? We can't.

 

If i said to you "kane scores 1 goal for every 40 key passes made and Lukaku scores a goal for every 25 key passes made" you would have taken great delight that it had proven that Kane scores more goals because he gets more chances....

 

The fact is it doesn't. Kane scores more goals because he is a more efficient goal scorer. He scores a goal for every 17 key passes, much better than Rom. Ok I've blown a misconception out the water... it happens.

 

 

As for "goals scored by a player at x age" absolutely one of the worst headline stats I've ever seen. The inconsistencies in the comparisons are so ridiculous.

 

I'm wasting my time.... I've made the facts. They aren't incorrect.... they aren't open to interpretation .... they are black and white.

 

Anyhow.... I needn't say anything else. The stats and facts are there.

 

Out of here.

[Romey 1878]

Do you know when Hannibal eats that face? That would be less painful than this thread.

[Aidan]

This is my favorite ever thread!

[Lowensda]

This is quite a simple show as far as direct comparisons go. That really is Black & White, as current Top Scorers in the Premier League is concerned. Be more appropriate at the end of the season of course.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/top-scorers

[Matt]

This is quite a simple show as far as direct comparisons go. That really is Black & White, as current Top Scorers in the Premier League is concerned. Be more appropriate at the end of the season of course.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/top-scorers

someone missing from that, must be wrong

 

But yeah, need to wait for the end of the season.

[markjazzbassist]

didn't realize he was second leading scorer, well done rom lad

[Shukes]

Other than the arguing, this thread is actually interesting for me.

 

Haf, great job in your analysis. That's the interesting stuff.

 

But I don't think Matt is arguing the stats as such,but rather his reading of them.

Kane is more efficient.

But is this down to ability or the quality of key passes? This is the bit that cam be debated. I would guess key passes from Spurs could create more clear goalscoring opportunities.

 

Really interesting stuff.

[StevO]

I was drinking all day yesterday, I woke up about half an hour ago with no hangover. This thread has just given me that hangover. Thanks. Phone off.

[Matt]

Other than the arguing, this thread is actually interesting for me.

 

Haf, great job in your analysis. That's the interesting stuff.

 

But I don't think Matt is arguing the stats as such,but rather his reading of them.

Kane is more efficient.

But is this down to ability or the quality of key passes? This is the bit that cam be debated. I would guess key passes from Spurs could create more clear goalscoring opportunities.

 

Really interesting stuff.

bingo, put it much better than I have

[Hafnia]

The most obvious conclusion to make is never offer stats that can be viewed as criticism of a fan favourite no matter how valid.

[markjazzbassist]

Haf he's not a fan favorite. that would be jags, baines, barkley, those are fan favorites.

[Shukes]

The most obvious conclusion to make is never offer stats that can be viewed as criticism of a fan favourite no matter how valid.

Then people who enjoy the thread will miss out.

Do yourself a favour and don't argue with people who are obviously fishing.

 

Get into a debate with the opposites, and the rest of us get chance to read some really interesting points and stats.

Get back on it and stop slacking!

[Matt]

Then people who enjoy the thread will miss out.

Do yourself a favour and don't argue with people who are obviously fishing.

 

Get into a debate with the opposites, and the rest of us get chance to read some really interesting points and stats.

Get back on it and stop slacking!

i usually don't fish, and I wasn't this time either. The only reason I put the effort into debating Haf is because I want to understand and, as much as he infuriates me (as I'm sure I do to him), I respect his input (mostly ).

 

For this particular topic, it's gone on because neither of us seem to be able to get our point across in the right way or want to accept "defeat", for want of a better term. I agree with a lot of his points regarding Rom but disagree with many too. I enjoy it and hate it for the most part, even if it does get fractious sometimes.

[MikeO]

The most obvious conclusion to make is never offer stats that can be viewed as criticism of a fan favourite no matter how valid.

 

Most obvious conclusion is to let people have their own opinions.

 

When (some time ago) I used detailed unarguable stats to point out that he was far more two footed than you suggested and that he scored far more with his head than you thought you huffed and puffed and gave reasons why your opinion was still that he was hopeless with his right peg and his bonce was right, despite the evidence. You put your interpretation on it, which is fine.

 

Now if you bring up stats suggesting something allow others to do the same eh?

[Shukes]

Matt, I love to read your verbal sparring haha.

You both debate well. Others come on just to get a rise, or to throw an insult. That's what I don't like reading.

If I find a thread Boeing I tend to stay away, or don't get involved.

 

Wish others could do that. No one is forced to read or get involved in these threads.

 

I find the comparisons with Kane really interesting.

Don't necessarily think Kane is better though.

 

Rom needs competition. If he had someone snapping at his position then we may see more aggression in his play.....same as Barkley.

[rubecula]

Matt, I love to read your verbal sparring haha.

You both debate well. Others come on just to get a rise, or to throw an insult. That's what I don't like reading.

If I find a thread Boeing I tend to stay away, or don't get involved.

 

Wish others could do that. No one is forced to read or get involved in these threads.

 

I find the comparisons with Kane really interesting.

Don't necessarily think Kane is better though.

 

Rom needs competition. If he had someone snapping at his position then we may see more aggression in his play.....same as Barkley.

It is people flying off the handle half cocked that gets to me, we all know where Haf and Matt are positioned on this thread by now.... if not I suggest folks read the entire thing again, but how about a change of track and discuss Lukaku on his good points from Haf and his bad points from Matt? Maybe this way we can find some common ground. AND some facts instead of lies statistics

[Hafnia]

It is people flying off the handle half cocked that gets to me, we all know where Haf and Matt are positioned on this thread by now.... if not I suggest folks read the entire thing again, but how about a change of track and discuss Lukaku on his good points from Haf and his bad points from Matt? Maybe this way we can find some common ground. AND some facts instead of lies statistics

I could try that as an experiment.

[Shukes]

Haha I never learn....spellchecker.

 

Like that idea though, that would be a good piece to read.

[Hafnia]

Haha I never learn....spellchecker.

 

Like that idea though, that would be a good piece to read.

It's what they do with debating classes.

[marcopaulo]

So....is he good or not?

[Matt]

 

Most obvious conclusion is to let people have their own opinions.

 

When (some time ago) I used detailed unarguable stats to point out that he was far more two footed than you suggested and that he scored far more with his head than you thought you huffed and puffed and gave reasons why your opinion was still that he was hopeless with his right peg and his bonce was right, despite the evidence. You put your interpretation on it, which is fine.

 

Now if you bring up stats suggesting something allow others to do the same eh?

interesting post!

[Hafnia]

 

Most obvious conclusion is to let people have their own opinions.

 

When (some time ago) I used detailed unarguable stats to point out that he was far more two footed than you suggested and that he scored far more with his head than you thought you huffed and puffed and gave reasons why your opinion was still that he was hopeless with his right peg and his bonce was right, despite the evidence. You put your interpretation on it, which is fine.

 

Now if you bring up stats suggesting something allow others to do the same eh?

Big difference between my belief that on his right foot he's extremely hit and miss..... which has a fair bit of credibility.... to what extreme you think it's acceptable that a pro footballer has a swinger for their weak foot is up to the individual. I personally do not think his right foot is anywhere near acceptable. That said - they same can be said for other strikers.

 

 

Moving on.... it was suggested to me that Kane only scores more goals because he plays in a team that creates more.

 

So. Do spurs create an environment that would allow a striker to score more goals? Yes. I pretty much knew this. Most just accepted that Kane was a lucky lad to play in a better team.

 

I have compared key pass numbers with goals scored - it's a very solid method of comparing each strikers ability to score goals relevant to the environment..... after all its what you guys were stating was the crucial difference.

 

I've done that and now the conclusion is being challenged? I must be at a loss here. The variables have been set to me in an argument.... "kane scores goals because he's in a more creative side"

 

What is there to differ on? We know each players goals and we know each teams number of key passes (indicative of crwativity).... now unless my formula is flawed:- key passes / goals = goalscoring efficiency. How can the conclusion differ?

 

Debate the methodology by all means if there is grounds.. the answer and what it tells you isn't up to debate

[MikeO]

Big difference between my belief that on his right foot he's extremely hit and miss..... which has a fair bit of credibility.... to what extreme you think it's acceptable that a pro footballer has a swinger for their weak foot is up to the individual. I personally do not think his right foot is anywhere near acceptable. That said - they same can be said for other strikers.

 

Glad you're seeing sense

 

Messi has scored 21% of goals with his wrong foot, Ronaldo 25%, Aguero 25%. Rom 35%. Not too shabby.

[pete0]

How does the data describe a key pass?

 

You watch Spurs and there are chances galore with a better quality midfield with Eriksen alone making more goals than our midfield. Compare that to Everton's bore fest the past two years of slow passes with Lukaku being surrounded by defenders as Barkley has a brew passing it sideways, to Kone on the left wing who then goes backwards.

[Palfy]

Haf keep the stats coming mate great entertainment need to make them more controversial good debating subjects

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/evertons-lack-productivity-must-remain-12070025