Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[markjazzbassist]

No one is saying that we need to go and buy suarez now... Let's go and buy the PSV version.

 

No one is saying go and buy Aguero now.... Let's go buy the athletico version....

 

If a club in crazy enough to offer £60m plus for him then I'm absolutely fine with that. I trust that walsh is fully aware of the type of forwards we need.

 

Just watched liverpool's equaliser... origi to mane to Lallana. Then the goal to go in thd lead. The same... interplay across the front. All players comfy on the ball.

 

Ajax? he never played for PSV.

[EFC-Paul]

His touch isn't great he does play very sloppy and wayward passes at times but he puts the ball in the net and at a decent rate so his positives outway his negatives for me

 

I've said the same of Barkley come next season hopefully Koeman shifts some deadwood and brings in the players he wants that will improve us and get the best out of the two of them

 

Rom isn't a great footballer and is best in and around the box hopefully the above happening will allow him to stay there and do what he does best and finish, Barkley would benefit from having a creative player around him to bounce off and give him the space to run in and drive forward

 

All ifs and buts atm but that's what I'm hoping for next season

Edited December 28, 2016 by EFC-Paul

[Hafnia]

 

Ajax? he never played for PSV.

You get my drift.

[Shukes]

I'm out for now, ruining my vacation reading this thread

Bloody hell... Rom has ruined mats vacation now!

[Paddock]

I s the think the problem is solely Lukaku though.

 

I agree with Haf in some points.

What's the use of having a striker that scores 30 goals if your team only scores 35?

 

Wouldn't it benefit the team more to have a striker that scores 15 - 20 goals and your team scores 50?

 

Perfect scenario would be a striker that scores 30 and a team that scores 50+!....and here lies our problem.

 

Same as Barkley, get the best out of Rom. Work on building a team that can augment Rom.

Rom isn't necessarily our problem, he is an asset that needs building on.

 

Oh and please, we are fucking Everton not Sunderland.

Who gives a shit about sell on value, build players for success not to merc out.

You're missing the point on the sell on fee part. He wasn't bought as a prospect to make money on but you can't argue we spunked 27 million on him and he's cost the club money when everyone knows we will ultimately double our money on him.

 

It's a silly point to bring up because he will eventually make us money.

[Paddock]

You see this is what pisses me off. The fact that he is a poor footballer impacts the team - it really fuckin does.

 

What would you prefer someone who scores goals or plays football? I would prefer all my outfield players had the ability to find a team mate more than an opponent player. I would prefer that when a ball is played to them that they can control it...

 

These things aren't mutually exclusive you know?

 

The hypocrisy is fookin hilarious. Valencia and bolasie were getting grief for giving the ball away... NO ONE GIVES THE BALL AWAY MORE THAN LUKAKU.

 

Barkley gets shit for being lazy.... NO OUTFIELD PLAYER COVERS LESS GROUND THAN LUKAKU.

They do get criticism Haf, but you are that hell bent on proving your theory on Lukaku you miss it half the time.

 

I don't have "favourite" players, you know my feelings on Barkley but I want him to come good and when he plays well I'm delighted for the lad. I'm not arsed if I'm proved wrong on the lad and he becomes world class as it will benefit Everton but you will throw Lukaku the odd back handed compliment then slap him back down. It's seriously border line obsessive.

 

If a player plays well, people praise them, if they're shite people say they are shit but you're massively over the top in your criticism of him, that's why people jump to his defence, it has nothing to do with him being the golden boy or above criticism, you're just n his back all the time so people defend him because it's unwarranted.

 

How can you not see this mate?

[Bailey]

I s the think the problem is solely Lukaku though.

 

I agree with Haf in some points.

What's the use of having a striker that scores 30 goals if your team only scores 35?

 

Wouldn't it benefit the team more to have a striker that scores 15 - 20 goals and your team scores 50?

 

Perfect scenario would be a striker that scores 30 and a team that scores 50+!....and here lies our problem.

 

Same as Barkley, get the best out of Rom. Work on building a team that can augment Rom.

Rom isn't necessarily our problem, he is an asset that needs building on.

 

Oh and please, we are fucking Everton not Sunderland.

Who gives a shit about sell on value, build players for success not to merc out.

In respect of your second paragraph it's not as if Rom isn't also contributing to the team. No his first touch isn't perfect and yes he does give the ball away in places he shouldn't but it's not like he doesn't play others in, he scores goals he has no right to and on the whole, he can link the play really well, creating outlets and space for others.

 

He will always give the ball away when he shouldn't, part of that is the nature of his role as a sole striker because 50% of the time he will be 2 v 1 against him but he has nothing to do with why we are struggling as a club either for Koeman or Martinez and I find it unfathomable that people seem to be going down that route. I would genuinely hate to think where we would be without him this season. Do you think we as a club would have scored more goals with Valencia or Kone leading the line? Would we fuck!

[Paddock]

In respect of your second paragraph it's not as if Rom isn't also contributing to the team. No his first touch isn't perfect and yes he does give the ball away in places he shouldn't but it's not like he doesn't play others in, he scores goals he has no right to and on the whole, he can link the play really well, creating outlets and space for others.

 

He will always give the ball away when he shouldn't, part of that is the nature of his role as a sole striker because 50% of the time he will be 2 v 1 against him but he has nothing to do with why we are struggling as a club either for Koeman or Martinez and I find it unfathomable that people seem to be going down that route. I would genuinely hate to think where we would be without him this season. Do you think we as a club would have scored more goals with Valencia or Kone leading the line? Would we fuck!

This is exactly right. All of a sudden some have decided that alls he does is score goals and absolutely nothing else which is utter rubbish. Of course he contributes in all sorts of ways.

 

Yes he has his faults he's far from perfect but to suggest the only thing he contributes is goals is ridiculous.

[Shukes]

You're missing the point on the sell on fee part. He wasn't bought as a prospect to make money on but you can't argue we spunked 27 million on him and he's cost the club money when everyone knows we will ultimately double our money on him.

 

It's a silly point to bring up because he will eventually make us money.

I dont think it's a silly point at all Pad.

He isn't the only player that fans have referenced a sell on fee for.

 

29m for me will be paid off with 5 seasons of 20 goals.

I want to progress as a club, not buy players just so we can profit on.

Your not the only one who mentions sell on fees by the way Pad. It's a regular transfer window point.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Shukes

[Hafnia]

Seriously his ball retention is nothing short of abysmal.

 

He is a supererb finisher and a supremely gifted athlete when he applies it.. these things you can't take away from him nor will I.

 

But he can't be an elite level striker the way he plays. It's like owning a ferrari that you need jump leads to start every day.

 

Fundamental footballing issues let him down.

 

Leon osman coming out with that interview was highly telling. He's basically saying you appreciate his goals but ffs Rom?!

 

Anyhow... it's nothing that hasn't be said before on either side

[Paddock]

I do t think it's a silly point at all Pad.

He isn't the only player that fans have referenced a sell on fee for.

 

29m for me will be paid off with 5 seasons of 20 goals.

I want to progress as a club, not buy players just so we can profit on.

Your not the only one who mentions sell on fees by the way Pad. It's a regular transfer window point.

Again Shukes, I don't want to sell him and the only eason I would ever mention his sell on fee, ever is to defend him when people are using the "he cost 27 million"

Stick to beat him with. It's a useless and pointless critisism to lash at the lad because a) he didn't ask to go for that much and b. ) he will double that when we do sell him.

 

How can anyone think his fee is just cause to slate him?

[Shukes]

Again Shukes, I don't want to sell him and the only eason I would ever mention his sell on fee, ever is to defend him when people are using the "he cost 27 million"

Stick to beat him with. It's a useless and pointless critisism to lash at the lad because a) he didn't ask to go for that much and b. ) he will double that when we do sell him.

 

How can anyone think his fee is just cause to slate him?

I agree with you. In today's market 29m is pretty standard for a forward.

I don't want to sell him either, but he does frustrate me at times, just like Ross.

[Palfy]

If he's such a bad player why does he get picked if available for every game, when there are other options that could be tried.

Could it be because he is good at what he does.

You could go through the whole team and find fault in all of them.

If shit defenders weren't conceding goals they wouldn't come in for criticism, even as individuals they are poor, so I struggle to understand how Lukaku comes in for so much criticism when he's doing what he was put out there to do score goals.

[Cornish Steve]

You see this is what pisses me off. The fact that he is a poor footballer impacts the team - it really fuckin does.

 

What would you prefer someone who scores goals or plays football? I would prefer all my outfield players had the ability to find a team mate more than an opponent player. I would prefer that when a ball is played to them that they can control it...

 

These things aren't mutually exclusive you know?

 

The hypocrisy is fookin hilarious. Valencia and bolasie were getting grief for giving the ball away... NO ONE GIVES THE BALL AWAY MORE THAN LUKAKU.

 

Barkley gets shit for being lazy.... NO OUTFIELD PLAYER COVERS LESS GROUND THAN LUKAKU.

 

Frankly, it's not the job of a centre forward to cover more ground than everyone else. It's not his job to put in the most effort. It's not his job to have the highest completed pass percentage. It's his job to score and assist goals, and Lukaku is very good at doing that. Call me hypocritical all you like, but Lukaku scores goals; therefore, he's doing his job. Could he do better? Yes. But running around more, and sweating a little more, and completing more passes is not required to score more goals. If you ask me, he needs to use his strength more.

 

And you know what? When those who predict the scorer of the first goal each week type in a name, guess whose name appears by far the most often? Yes, Lukaku. In other words, we all know he will score most of our goals - and, still, here we are whinging about him.

 

And, for record, I'm not suggesting that all he does is score goals. He creates space by pulling away defenders, he creates options by making runs even when the ball doesn't come to him, he creates many chances for his teammates, his sheer size intimidates, and more. But, in the end, a centre forward is measured by how many goals he scores. Always, that should be the principal metric by which Lukaku is measured.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Cornish Steve

[Hafnia]

 

Frankly, it's not the job of a centre forward to cover more ground than everyone else. It's not his job to put in the most effort. It's not his job to have the highest completed pass percentage. It's his job to score and assist goals, and Lukaku is very good at doing that. Call me hypocritical all you like, but Lukaku scores goals; therefore, he's doing his job. Could he do better? Yes. But running around more, and sweating a little more, and completing more passes is not required to score more goals. If you ask me, he needs to use his strength more.

 

And you know what? When those who predict the scorer of the first goal each week type in a name, guess whose name appears by far the most often? Yes, Lukaku. In other words, we all know he will score most of our goals - and, still, here we are whinging about him.

 

And, for record, I'm not suggesting that all he does is score goals. He creates space by pulling away defenders, he creates options by making runs even when the ball doesn't come to him, he creates many chances for his teammates, his sheer size intimidates, and more. But, in the end, a centre forward is measured by how many goals he scores. Always, that should be the principal metric by which Lukaku is measured.

Sweating a bit more and completing a few passes?

 

No. Let's not try and trivialise the fundamentals eh.

 

His pass completion has rarely got above 50% in the last few weeks... 45% in two games on the bounce. The average for the team this season is 78% - that includes goal kicks and corners... you know our team that fa.s slate for "not being able to string 2 passes together"

 

Pass completion isn't some sort of bonus for tiki taka obsessed managers.... it shows the ability of the team to retain the ball. When one player gives the ball away more times than they retain it - then it's a problem. A big problem.

 

I mean... what happens if 3 or 4 more players pass the ball as inaccurately as Rom? Are we going to avoid losing games? Will we bollocks.

 

So why isn't it a problem? You will have to help me out here because I was brought up with the philosophy that when you have the ball - the opponents can't score.

 

I tell you what the real problem is - I'm nailing the lad for issues that should not be there and it's not liked because he scores goals.

 

As for the sweating a bit more I don't think that's possible. The lad sweats like Elvis in a jump suit after 5 minutes. Allowing defenders to stroll out with the ball is unacceptable. We aren't asking him to run round like Gana Gueye we are asking him to maybe just make sure they dont have 5 seconds on the ball to dissect a pass through our midfield.

 

If i need to put further justification on that then I'm wasting my time..

[Hafnia]

If he's such a bad player why does he get picked if available for every game, when there are other options that could be tried.

Could it be because he is good at what he does.

You could go through the whole team and find fault in all of them.

If shit defenders weren't conceding goals they wouldn't come in for criticism, even as individuals they are poor, so I struggle to understand how Lukaku comes in for so much criticism when he's doing what he was put out there to do score goals.

Why does he get picked for every game? You mean ahead of niasse, Calvert-lewin, and kone?

 

Tough one but my guess is that kone has his knees held together by chewing gum and will not be playing football again. Niasse was some sort of practical joke played on us by martinez and Calvert-lewin is still cleaning Roms boots and driving a club sponsored corsa.

[Filip1]

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/voetbal/buitenland/Engeland/1.2854905

 

 

NOT BAD FOR AN AVERAGE STRIKER HAFNIA!!!

 

Statistics you know??

[Hafnia]

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/voetbal/buitenland/Engeland/1.2854905

 

 

NOT BAD FOR AN AVERAGE STRIKER HAFNIA!!!

 

Statistics you know??

Why are you posting a link to show his goals? Have I said somewhere that he's a shit goalscorer? No. I've said he's a good finisher. The link was a load of Belgian waffle.

 

The point I'm making is that his goals come at a cost to the team because he is forever giving the ball away which gives the opposition a chance to counter attack and score.

[Aidan]

Yeah. what a hindrance those 70 goals are for us

[Hafnia]

Yeah. what a hindrance those 70 goals are for us

Are you deliberately being a nob? Do I need to repeat for the 900th time that it's not about his goals.... that it's his goals come at a cost? Namely his inability to look after the ball and prevent the team counter attacking.

 

No I don't need to repeat it... you are deliberately being a nob.. well played.

[Aidan]

Are you deliberately being a nob? Do I need to repeat for the 900th time that it's not about his goals.... that it's his goals come at a cost? Namely his inability to look after the ball and prevent the team counter attacking.

 

No I don't need to repeat it... you are deliberately being a nob.. well played.

 

I know what you're trying to say Haf, and no, I'm not picking a fight. I just cant believe some of the nonsense I see on this thread.

 

 

Why are you posting a link to show his goals? Have I said somewhere that he's a shit goalscorer? No. I've said he's a good finisher. The link was a load of Belgian waffle.

 

The point I'm making is that his goals come at a cost to the team because he is forever giving the ball away which gives the opposition a chance to counter attack and score.

 

So, just to clarify, you're saying that the 71 goals in 145 Everton games (according to Wikipedia) Rom has scored somehow comes as a cost to the team? How do you work that out? It's almost as if you're saying that Rom has cost the team more than 71 goals, in the 145 matches he has played, just from having an inability to hold up a ball (which he is instructed to do, even though everyone, including Martinez, Koeman and himself knows he cant) and a lack of enthusiasm, or willingness to chase balls down.

 

How long did we go from seasons to season wishing we had a proper goal scorer, nothing too spectacular, just a "Jonny on the spot" type player who was reliable and would poach goals and be more likely to score a one on one rather than fluff it? If you think that somehow the team would benefit with any other striker we could realistically get then you're barking.

Im not picking a nob intentionally Haf, it's just your point doesn't make much sense.

Edited December 28, 2016 by AidanLewis

[Shy_Talk]

Sweating a bit more and completing a few passes?

 

No. Let's not try and trivialise the fundamentals eh.

 

His pass completion has rarely got above 50% in the last few weeks... 45% in two games on the bounce. The average for the team this season is 78% - that includes goal kicks and corners... you know our team that fa.s slate for "not being able to string 2 passes together"

 

Pass completion isn't some sort of bonus for tiki taka obsessed managers.... it shows the ability of the team to retain the ball. When one player gives the ball away more times than they retain it - then it's a problem. A big problem.

 

I mean... what happens if 3 or 4 more players pass the ball as inaccurately as Rom? Are we going to avoid losing games? Will we bollocks.

 

So why isn't it a problem? You will have to help me out here because I was brought up with the philosophy that when you have the ball - the opponents can't score.

 

I tell you what the real problem is - I'm nailing the lad for issues that should not be there and it's not liked because he scores goals.

 

As for the sweating a bit more I don't think that's possible. The lad sweats like Elvis in a jump suit after 5 minutes. Allowing defenders to stroll out with the ball is unacceptable. We aren't asking him to run round like Gana Gueye we are asking him to maybe just make sure they dont have 5 seconds on the ball to dissect a pass through our midfield.

 

If i need to put further justification on that then I'm wasting my time..

 

Philosophy huh, hmmm. As a striker, i'm not sure how much it's whoevers job to spread the play, pick out overlaps and join up the midfield, but, shots on and off target usually mean possession is handed over that is unless a goal is scored then the opposition get to kick off from the centre circle so have possession again.

 

The problem with possession based football to prevent the opposition scoring is a manager like martinez (Clown-shoes) talks it up as being phenomenal, and although a clown-shoes side might win the possession at full time, strangely the game revolves around which side has scored the most goals not passed it around crab ball style through midfield for a solid 60 minutes of a game but have still shipped 4 goals.

 

Lukaku is isolated, his gameis on the deck, justlike Barkleys gameis, neither are aerial experts like Cahill was for us. Either we get a classy big man in to ping the ball too/off and involve them or we cut our losses with one of them and restructure the side and style of play.

 

Lennon, Bolassie, Deulofeou, McGeady, Niasse (?), Mirallas (?) thats six wide players that might also qualify as wingers (hence the question marks in brackets) so who are they picking out with crosses? Where is our Niall Quinn, John Hartson, Duncan Ferguson, Les Ferdinand, Grazianno Pelle, Salomon Rondon, or maybe even a Mario Gomez to knit together the forward line and be someone for wide players to aim for if not just tying up the better header of the ball in the oppos defences. (threw that in because Cahills late arriving runs and leaps bamboozled the league for how many consecutive seasons?)

[Hafnia]

 

 

I know what you're trying to say Haf, and no, I'm not picking a fight. I just cant believe some of the nonsense I see on this thread.

 

 

 

So, just to clarify, you're saying that the 71 goals in 145 Everton games (according to Wikipedia) Rom has scored somehow comes as a cost to the team? How do you work that out? It's almost as if you're saying that Rom has cost the team more than 71 goals, in the 145 matches he has played, just from having an inability to hold up a ball (which he is instructed to do, even though everyone, including Martinez, Koeman and himself knows he cant) and a lack of enthusiasm, or willingness to chase balls down.

 

How long did we go from seasons to season wishing we had a proper goal scorer, nothing too spectacular, just a "Jonny on the spot" type player who was reliable and would poach goals and be more likely to score a one on one rather than fluff it? If you think that somehow the team would benefit with any other striker we could realistically get then you're barking.

 

Im not picking a nob intentionally Haf, it's just your point doesn't make much sense.

There is absolutely no way that a football player should be completing as low as 45% of passes.

 

Forget his goals... he did 4 calendar months of football without scoring in the league. If i wanted to point my argument at his consistency I could... I'm not going down the goals route. He's a focal point lone striker... he scores goals when we find him in the box as expectantly as we think jags should win the ball from crosses.

 

What we are talking about is a player who is not able to help his team mates advance up the field. Attacks break down because he either can't control it or he loses the ball due to a bad pass. It can't be mitigated - it simply can't.

 

We will never directly concede a goal from one of his fuck ups. But we see the midfield and defence scampering back in the hope of retrieving the ball.

 

If he was completing 70% of passes then ok... not too much of an issue. Pretty solid but not spectacular. But he has been teetering around 45-50 completion in the past few games.. it's unheard of.

 

 

Imagine barkley giving the ball away more times than he passes it?

[Aidan]

There is absolutely no way that a football player should be completing as low as 45% of passes.

 

Forget his goals... he did 4 calendar months of football without scoring in the league. If i wanted to point my argument at his consistency I could... I'm not going down the goals route. He's a focal point lone striker... he scores goals when we find him in the box as expectantly as we think jags should win the ball from crosses.

 

What we are talking about is a player who is not able to help his team mates advance up the field. Attacks break down because he either can't control it or he loses the ball due to a bad pass. It can't be mitigated - it simply can't.

 

We will never directly concede a goal from one of his fuck ups. But we see the midfield and defence scampering back in the hope of retrieving the ball.

 

If he was completing 70% of passes then ok... not too much of an issue. Pretty solid but not spectacular. But he has been teetering around 45-50 completion in the past few games.. it's unheard of.

 

 

Imagine barkley giving the ball away more times than he passes it?

 

All you need to do is watch the way we play and notice that when the ball is hoofed up to him there is absolutely nobody around him to pass to. Its so difficult for him. Hes probably the most isolated player in the whole league judging by the way we play.

 

I challenge any striker in the league to do heaps better at retaining possession in this Everton squad.

Edited December 28, 2016 by AidanLewis

[Aidan]

2015/16 Average pass % Strikers

Troy Deeney - 60.9%

Andy Carroll - 61.6%

Salomon Rondon - 65.5%

Jamie Vardy - 65.8%

Graziano Pelle - 66.1%

Christitan Benteke - 66.1%

Shane Long - 66.4%

Giroud - 68.1%

------------------

Lukaku - 72.6%

------------------

2016/17 Average pass % Strikers

Peter Crouch - 52.9%

Jon Walters - 55.3%

Troy Deeney 58.4%

-------------------

Lukaku - 62.9%

-------------------

Christian Benteke - 63.4%

Austin 63.7%

Shane Long - 63.8%

So Lukaku's pass % has dropped significantly, but its dropped because we now play long ball up to Rom, rather than a Martinez possession based philosophy.

It's interesting to see the players pass % similar to Lukaku's this term, and the teams and philosophies they play in. In reality, it indicates that Lukaku is no worse than any other isolated striker who is expected to hold the ball up with absolutely nobody around him.

Also just a quick mention, which also caught my eye, is that Rom is averaging 1.5 Key passes per game, ranked 35th in the whole league. In comparison for out and out strikers only Harry Kane (1.6), Diego Costa (1.6), Zlatan Ibrahimovic (1.8) and arguably Alexis Sanchez (2.6) have made more on average per game.

(Source: Whoscored.com)

Not usually one for stats, but I hope it shed's a different light and gives a different outlook.

Edited December 28, 2016 by AidanLewis

[Shy_Talk]

They're both 15/16 stats. Odd.

[Paddock]

 

All you need to do is watch the way we play and notice that when the ball is hoofed up to him there is absolutely nobody around him to pass to. Its so difficult for him. Hes probably the most isolated player in the whole league judging by the way we play.

 

I challenge any striker in the league to do heaps better at retaining possession in this Everton squad.

And BINGO!!! Everytime he gets a hoofed ball from defence IF he wins it there are 3 defenders on him and not an Everton player within 20 yards

[Paddock]

Wonder how he would fair with Felliani behind him....

[Aidan]

They're both 15/16 stats. Odd.

 

Edited, cheer mate.

[Matt]

Wonder how he would fair with Felliani behind him....

he needs a Cahill more than Felli I think, someone who can stick close, work hard and win balls for him