Guest blueboy122 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 The lad could have the touch of an elephant, but if he averages a goal every other game that puts him in an elite category in the Premier league. Not many players have that record, or the time to keep improving. Players who score one in three are well into the £15m bracket, he is better than that. I cant believe I'm seeing him compared to Suarez because they got him for £20m. He wasn't the player then that he is now. He is up there with the worlds best now. It's crazy talk to compare them. Agreed but I don't think he can sustain the scoring touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I wouldn't want to spend 20m on him either. He'd probably score 20+ a season if he played for a side that sit back and counter like Villa or West Ham, but we aren't that nor do I want us to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have posted before that he is only twenty and has a lot of improving to do but I agree with a lot of what the lads on here have said. If he hasn't got a first touch now he never will have. Again, I grant he is poor in the air for a man of his size but he does get in a lot of good positions and would have scored a lot more than he has if the final ball was good enough. I think we can all agree that's a big thing we need to rectify if we are going to turn possession into goals. I think ultimately we will lose out to a atletico Madrid or a Milan as his game is probably better suited to that style of football. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 His strength being don't play to his weakness = don't pass the ball to him with players marking him? Sorry but you may as well put him in the Altidore, Kenwyne Jones, Carroll, Cameron Jerome category if we are looking at him being a horses for courses type of player. Watch the best strikers in the league (Suarez, Negredo, Rooney, RVP, Aguero, Giroud) their first touch takes them away from the defender and allows them to get a shot away immediately. I appreciate the goals he has given us, but I'm not going to get carried away by him, he's far too rough round the edges. no, play the ball past him because he will be tightly marked and can out muscle the best in a foot race. Ie. play to his strength! He isn't a good enough to player to make his own chances is he. He offers nothing apart from when he's one on one. Steven Naismith is good in front of goal and in my opinion offers more than Lukaku has in the past few months at least Naismith wins headers and can control a ball. If we are spending a huge amount of money like 20 million I want a lot more accomplished player than Lukaku. If we are going to be putting the ball through to our strikers all the time we could save a hell of a lot of money and buy someone who is a decent poacher like Jelly was or someone of that calibre. £20 million is a huge price tag and a player with that price tag needs to offer more than a few goals when he gets put through one on one. What does he offer when he isn't scoring? Nothing. We can't build attacks off him because he can't even do the basics, win headers, control the ball, hold the ball etc.the ball has got to stick with a striker end of story. May sound harsh but he is becoming more of a liability as he constantly loses the ball when we are coming forward constantly putting us on the back foot. It's not good enough Suarez (27), Negredo (28), Rooney (28), RVP (30), Aguero (25), Giroud (27) - at least 5 years more playing time that Lukaku. You just cannot compare them. They were big money signings because they were close to the finished products (Rooney the exception - a gamble on a kid with potential) with a wealth of experience at a higher level that WBA and the Dutch leagues. Suarez when he joined the shite, scored 21 in 52 games during 1.5 seasons. Again, Rom Lukaku has 26 in 58 and thats in 1.5 seasons, very close indeed, but a couple years younger than when Suarez joined - Fang was 24 and had been playing week in, week out for Ajax. Barkley at the moment, near enough the same age, has 1 or 2 major faults in his game. If he played for another team and you had the chance to buy him for 20m, you would say no because he takes too long to release the ball? Of course not. You see the raw talent that excites, and is rough around the edges, normal for a 19 yr old. For me, I have the same feeling with Lukaku I simply dont know what to say, and Im baffled by some of the responses. Fair enough, they're you're opinions, I'm just seriously struggling to understand them. If you want a perfect striker, look towards 30-40m+ bracket. ... Writing off a talented youngster with so much potential because one aspect of his game isnt great is mind boggling. Haf - you have been one of the biggest supporters of playing to the strikers strengths and bemoaned Moyes for trying to change the striker to suit a different style - AJ, Yak, Jela. So why are you suddenly saying the striker should adapt to the playing style? If Moyes had started getting Lukaku to hold the ball up rather than playing to his strengths, you'd be shitting kittens. Im lost here! suarez was a better all round player than lukaku is now and it was about the same price bein quoted Suarez was a bit of a gamble that paid off big time. He also had a reputation that might've put other people off. Dont judge people on price tags, its not something you can compare with. Agreed but I don't think he can sustain the scoring touch. based on anything in particular? Or just a feeling? Thats not meant in a bitchy way, Im just trying to understand your take on things. chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 gotta be some kind of judgement on price tags matt..how else do you know what value for money is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 gotta be some kind of judgement on price tags matt..how else do you know what value for money is? Andy Carroll. Madmatt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 anomaly's in everything.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) suarez was a better all round player than lukaku is now and it was about the same price bein quoted I agree Marco, he was, but the market has carried on increasing. Liverpool got Suarez for a bargain. Agreed but I don't think he can sustain the scoring touch. Hes managed a very good average for the last four years, why would it change as he gains more experience? I think Matt is as close to my opinion as anyone to be honest. Edited January 30, 2014 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I am totally with Matt on this. We are talking about a young talent with the proven ability to score. Every player has strengths and weaknesses. You play to the strengths while working to improve the weaknesses. Lukaku is as good a young talent as there is out there, with considerable BPL experience to boot. He has a little less bite than Suarez, but that's no bad thing. It's going to take time for the team to gel as well as adapt to the new strategy. Let's not be deceived by our success because there remains much work to be done. Every one of our players have areas in which to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Barkley at the moment, near enough the same age, has 1 or 2 major faults in his game. If he played for another team and you had the chance to buy him for 20m, you would say no because he takes too long to release the ball? Of course not. You see the raw talent that excites, and is rough around the edges, normal for a 19 yr old. For me, I have the same feeling with Lukaku I simply dont know what to say, and Im baffled by some of the responses. Fair enough, they're you're opinions, I'm just seriously struggling to understand them. If you want a perfect striker, look towards 30-40m+ bracket. ... Writing off a talented youngster with so much potential because one aspect of his game isnt great is mind boggling. I get what you're saying here and I agree to an extent in that I think that fans like to focus on the one thing players do bad rather than on the many things they do well. I just think that a player's touch is an absolute prequisite and not something that's going to develop much later in life. People having been saying he won't make it at the top with his first touch since the moment he burst onto the scene in Belgium and I honestly don't think he's grown much in that regard in the past 5 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 ...and a few bad touches can blind people, regardless of the many, many positives. Rooney had 17 goals in 77 games at Everton, his first 2 full seasons in the first team (granted, he was a couple years younger). Lukaku has 26 in 58 and thats in 1.5 seasons. Yet hes worth less than half of the price you wouldve put on Rooney? :dont know: End of the day, its each to their own, I just think people are being far too harsh on the guy... You can't even compare Lukaku to Rooney. Rooney was and still is twice the footballer Lukaku will ever be. Without his goals what does Lukaku offer? He's not "technically" good.like Rooney. He has an eye for goal and that's about it. He's worth £20m because he's a big name in Europe and has massive potential. Right now I'd say he's worth £12m - £15m face value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 People in his entourage supposedly think he'll be playing again in two weeks according to the Belgian press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) You can't even compare Lukaku to Rooney. Rooney was and still is twice the footballer Lukaku will ever be. Without his goals what does Lukaku offer? He's not "technically" good.like Rooney. He has an eye for goal and that's about it. He's worth £20m because he's a big name in Europe and has massive potential. Right now I'd say he's worth £12m - £15m face value. i was comparing him to Rooney because someone else made the comparison. I was trying to make a point. All the comparisons have been with Drogba, and that's what I still believe - cheating aside I don't care if his whole game is scoring goals - goals win games so I'd be ecstatic with him. Let the other 9 outfield players do the technical, flashy shit - if all of that leads to Lukaku sticking it in the net, bring it on. Edited January 30, 2014 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oztoffee Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Be assured, if Lukaku was scoring at twice his current rate ie: a goal a game, he would not be for sale and certainly not at 20mill. Crappy first touch?, if he scored a goal a game who cares? We have to put this into perspective, Chelsea want to offload because he's not good enough for them and like all other teams are asking for more than he's worth to see what the market says. Easy really....if we want him we have to negotiate. If he continues to score at his current rate he'd end the season with 16 goals. Who was the last Everton player to score 16 in a season? (A real question by the way... I don't know the answer and it's too late and I'm too knackered to bother to look.)Not many have done that, certainly not in the post-Latchford days. The question really then is whether 16 a season is worth up to 20mill. We've become so Moyesified over the past 11 years that our current views of our game are blinkered when it come to assessing a player's worth. "So what if he scores 16 a season, he doesn't work for the team". A couple of close looks at his positioning in recent games has often seen him out on the wing. WTF? Reminds me very much of jelly doing likewise......wouldn't be out there unless (a)he's been told to (b)has to be out there to get a touch. I know which I'd pick. Lack of service kills goalscorers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) anomaly's in everything..ok, Torres since his Chelsea days. That's 2. Robhino. Berbatov. There's 4. Should I continue? Edited January 30, 2014 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 to be fair matt they're not really comparable with carroll..they were proven and it just didn't work at the respective clubs..still all top players when sold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 to be fair matt they're not really comparable with carroll..they were proven and it just didn't work at the respective clubs..still all top players when soldyou were talking price tags. I'm proving that price tags mean nothing. We can look I the in the bargain bin if you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 my point was that it's a lot of money to spend on someone who we can't rely on yet but would have to..when other teams have bought more complete players for similar prices..maybe it's an opinion also based on the fact that we don't have much money..i just think it's far too much to spend on him for a club like ours Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 my point was that it's a lot of money to spend on someone who we can't rely on yet but would have to..when other teams have bought more complete players for similar prices..maybe it's an opinion also based on the fact that we don't have much money..i just think it's far too much to spend on him for a club like oursand the likes of Coleman were youth we gambled on for buttons and now look. 20m now will look a bargain in 5 years time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Belgium once played with Benteke and Lukaku in a 2-striker system against the USA I believe it was. It worked out just fine, but not notably better than a 4-5-1. But that's perhaps cause Belgium's attacking midfield is pretty pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memmaclub Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have to say I agree with the general sentiment that we shouldn't right him off at his age but his first touch is awful and without goals I agree he is poor. I think it's too easy to forget he is not our player and 20 mil is out of our price range anyway even if he was scoring 20 goals. Is he any better than jelavic in the sense that in his first 10-15 games jelly did the business. lukaku (like jelly) has gone off the boil and doesn't look like getting back that way. I would put the big fella in and see what we get out of him for a few games. Who ever said naismith was the answer shame on you. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 As soon as Ross touches the ball you know he is a superb player. As soon as Lukaku touches the ball it goes out got a throw or to the opposition. It's just his touch for me that is the basics and he hasn't got it I am afraid. When we try and relieve pressure you play it to the forward for them to hold up and take the pressure off we just don't get that with Lukaku he constantly gives the ball away constantly leaving us vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have to say I agree with the general sentiment that we shouldn't right him off at his age but his first touch is awful and without goals I agree he is poor. I think it's too easy to forget he is not our player and 20 mil is out of our price range anyway even if he was scoring 20 goals. Is he any better than jelavic in the sense that in his first 10-15 games jelly did the business. lukaku (like jelly) has gone off the boil and doesn't look like getting back that way. I would put the big fella in and see what we get out of him for a few games. Who ever said naismith was the answer shame on you. Who said Naismith was the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 my point was that it's a lot of money to spend on someone who we can't rely on yet but would have to..when other teams have bought more complete players for similar prices..maybe it's an opinion also based on the fact that we don't have much money..i just think it's far too much to spend on him for a club like ours Exactly. I feel we could buy someone just as good for half the amount Lukaku would cost. The only reason he is being touted for £20 million is that Chelsea paid well over the odds, the fact that he is a Chelsea player and also the hype about him being a new drogba. Ability wise at the moment he is worth about £5 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 As soon as Ross touches the ball you know he is a superb player. As soon as Lukaku touches the ball it goes out got a throw or to the opposition. It's just his touch for me that is the basics and he hasn't got it I am afraid. When we try and relieve pressure you play it to the forward for them to hold up and take the pressure off we just don't get that with Lukaku he constantly gives the ball away constantly leaving us vulnerable. yeah, but I also wonder how long it will take him to make the pass, how many times hes going to take on the world on his own and run into trouble. Thats his big flaw at the moment, decision making. But I accept it, no matter how frustrating it is, because hes a young player who can work on this as he gets older and more experienced. Its clear we wont agree, so I'll drop it for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 If he comes back from his injury with the same form he's been showing recently he won't be worth 20m+. Wouldn't mind him a bit cheaper, as he's got great potential but no way should we break the bank for him. I'd rather try and get Deulofeu here permanently if Lukaku is going for 20+. missed this one. Pearso, can you explain why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 yeah, but I also wonder how long it will take him to make the pass, how many times hes going to take on the world on his own and run into trouble. Thats his big flaw at the moment, decision making. But I accept it, no matter how frustrating it is, because hes a young player who can work on this as he gets older and more experienced. Its clear we wont agree, so I'll drop it for now Tbf, decision making can be learned as he gets older but Lukaku's first touch isn't likely to improve. He's just going to have to deal with having a shit first touch and make up for it in other ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Tbf, decision making can be learned as he gets older but Lukaku's first touch isn't likely to improve. He's just going to have to deal with having a shit first touch and make up for it in other ways. why not? If its identified as a weakness by the coaches, they can help focus his training on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) why not? If its identified as a weakness by the coaches, they can help focus his training on it. First touch isn't something that can really be learned, you've either got it or you haven't. Edited January 31, 2014 by Romey 1878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 First touch isn't something that can't really be learned, you've either got it or you haven't. Everything can be learned, at least improved! Whats the point in training otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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