Ross Barkley

[Hafnia]

If we had a rock solid first 11, then 5 on the bench who are stronger than anyone in the younger generation I would concede that moyes would be right to maybe not bring them on unless we were beating teams 3 goals to the good with 15 minutes left.

 

Fact is we currently have jelavic, Neville and Naismith getting game time and they are playing absolutely shite! - if any youngster played like that they would be released.

 

Barkley and Duffy have already proved that they are good enough - they need experience. Moyes doesn't necessarily know better than us - he is in a position to know more information to make that decision - it's whether he makes the right decision. Based on what we have seen with his subs I very much doubt that he always makes the right choice.

 

Why did moyes play hitz, Naismith, and gueye the other night? Answers on a postcard.

[mcirony]

Aside from obvious lack of goals, Jelavic hasn't been THAT bad. He's working hard with he's getting, and that's not a lot at the moment.

[Avinalaff]

Moyes gave Barkley a run out against Chelsea, and it was mistake against mistake. Vellios has been given a few late starts, and hasn't really done much either. It can be argued that lads need 90 minutes to be judged, but Moyes obviously feels they don't offer enough to be given starts.

 

Barkley and Duffy have proved they're good enough? Oh really, perhaps we missed that one Haf. Is it the squad selector who needs convincing, or the Toffeetalk member?

 

Naismith has been mediocre, and frustrating, but he isn't getting played as a striker, and he isn't getting enough minutes in his natural position to justify too much critisism. Neville always gets stick, but he wasn't that bad today. It's just he excites nobody.

 

I would personally play Anichebe as striker, and bench Jelavic. There is no point dropping Nev as he is playing a defensive role, and we don't have much in the way of competition.

[Hafnia]

Moyes gave Barkley a run out against Chelsea, and it was mistake against mistake. Vellios has been given a few late starts, and hasn't really done much either. It can be argued that lads need 90 minutes to be judged, but Moyes obviously feels they don't offer enough to be given starts.

 

Barkley and Duffy have proved they're good enough? Oh really, perhaps we missed that one Haf. Is it the squad selector who needs convincing, or the Toffeetalk member?

 

Naismith has been mediocre, and frustrating, but he isn't getting played as a striker, and he isn't getting enough minutes in his natural position to justify too much critisism. Neville always gets stick, but he wasn't that bad today. It's just he excites nobody.

 

I would personally play Anichebe as striker, and bench Jelavic. There is no point dropping Nev as he is playing a defensive role, and we don't have much in the way of competition.

 

Barkley gave the ball away once against Chelsea - when his team mates went hiding behind players.

 

Barkley has more than proven he is good enough - he has more passing ability than any other midfielder we have fit at present. QPR, Wolfsburg, he's played for the under 21's. he was on capellos radar 2 years ago. Duffy played brilliantly when he came in for us last term, not against mediocre opposition either. His performances were better than anything heitinga has offered this season. Because of moyes reluctance to play him people overstate his errors as some form of justification. Gazza never became gazza without scoring own goals, giving away possession etc. ronaldo used to make mistakes for united, van persie wasn't anywhere near perfect when he came to wenger. They all got games though.

 

Mediocre isn't a player who looks like he's up against usain bolt when a centre half decides to run past him. Mediocre isn't a player who can't pass a ball and just kicks it when closed down. Naismith is not mediocre - he is shit.

 

I'm done with talking about Phil Neville - anyone who thinks he has a place in our team hasn't got a clue. He is kidding himself, his stern faces, shouts and points do not mean "leader". It means "I need people to see I'm worth more to the team than someone who makes five yard passes backwards and sideways and generally gives nothing else. So I'll look like I'm organising things."

Edited January 12, 2013 by Hafnia

[pete0]

Barkley lost the ball looking forward. We'd have only lost the ball a few seconds later anyway. Much rather we lose the ball going forward than just waste time with it a la Liverpool.

[Avinalaff]

Why keep arguing for Barkley ? He is a Leeds player now.

 

http://www.lufctalk.com/

 

Go tell the Leeds lads how you feel.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Lol Clearly Moyes is a fool and needs to throw those manager of the year awards in the bin and spend more time in here because everyone else seems to know much more about football and Everton in particular than he does

[Hafnia]

Lol Clearly Moyes is a fool and needs to throw those manager of the year awards in the bin and spend more time in here because everyone else seems to know much more about football and Everton in particular than he does

 

Maybe he can add a medal to them if he uses Barkley not Neville, vellios not Naismith. Develop these potentially great players rather than see out the players who are finished.

[pete0]

Maybe he can add a medal to them if he uses Barkley not Neville, vellios not Naismith. Develop these potentially great players rather than see out the players who are finished.

Nar, Moyes is the best manager in the World. Never made a tactically inept substitution in his life, and wow, his extensive knowledge of the 451 is well, phenomenal so good in fact we never have to play a different formation or use different tactics no matter the opposition. 'Tell that lad was raised on Tizer. He's PERFECT

[pete0]

Got beat 2-0 on his debut, playing LF in a 433. Leeds were dire playing long-ball football and apparently Barkley showed the most passion of the Leeds players. Looking on the forum Avinalaff posted, the Leeds fans think Ross will play right mid.

 

"Debutant loanee Ross Barkley's turn and shot rebounded unluckily off the bar and finally we looked like we could get something out of the game. Had it gone in, maybe things would have gone differently.

 

... The only bright spark was arguably Ross Barkley; despite being a little greedy at times he showed effort and a touch of class that wasn't matched by anyone else." http://www.josh-fisk.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/away-days-barnsley.html

 

[Sideliner]

Avinalaff i may be South African and know more about rugby than football - but you do not have to make wine to know whether it is good or bad -

simple common sense told most South Africans and other people around the world that Hitler was making a big mistake in the second world war - the fact that he was in charge of his army and had very good advisors certainly did not mean that nobody could critisize him merely because he had more inside knowledge than anybody else -

as a South African or any other fan abroad it might just be that we look more objectively at English football because we do not have any inbred loyalty -

you must distinguish between criticism which is merely negative without substance and criticism which is aimed at helping the critisized to make the right decision like a warning to a child not to play with a knife

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Nar, Moyes is the best manager in the World. Never made a tactically inept substitution in his life, and wow, his extensive knowledge of the 451 is well, phenomenal so good in fact we never have to play a different formation or use different tactics no matter the opposition. 'Tell that lad was raised on Tizer. He's PERFECT

 

 

Try going to a few games Pete and you may just notice that we play 442 at times as well

[Avinalaff]

Avinalaff i may be South African and know more about rugby than football - but you do not have to make wine to know whether it is good or bad -

simple common sense told most South Africans and other people around the world that Hitler was making a big mistake in the second world war - the fact that he was in charge of his army and had very good advisors certainly did not mean that nobody could critisize him merely because he had more inside knowledge than anybody else -

as a South African or any other fan abroad it might just be that we look more objectively at English football because we do not have any inbred loyalty -

you must distinguish between criticism which is merely negative without substance and criticism which is aimed at helping the critisized to make the right decision like a warning to a child not to play with a knife

 

Bollocks.

 

This is what you wrote:

 

i strongly disagree with the statement that " only the manager and his team can make decisions with any genuine knowledge " - even the best managers make mistakes - just less than the worst ones -

all we are saying is that Moyes is making a mistake by persisting with out of form experienced players - winning 1 game out of 9 - without giving promising youngsters a proper chance (not just 10 min against Chelsea) to prove themselves - or at least giving more squad players gametime whenever the opportunity arises - he is too conservative and don't want to take chances - that is why he keeps on playing Neville while youngsters are mainly used as benchwarmers and emergency personell in the last 10 min of a game - we just disagree with his conservative gameplan of always falling back on experience instead of giving potential a fair opportunity - how many more chances does Jelavic want before Velios will get a single proper chance ?

 

Moyes takes these lads onto the field every day and knows them inside out. As a manager, he tries to get them to play the way he hopes will work in this league, and sees every pass, tackle, shot, and individual effort. As a manager, he has his own tactics, and utilizes the squad accordingly. He knows who is fit, who is tired, who is off colour, who needs more work or experience and so on. Our juniors are only in the equation because our squad is small, otherwise they would be playing reserve / academy stuff, and nobody would know them.

 

Meanwhile, in your capacity as an overseas fan having never once watched 'any' of our players make a case for selection behind closed doors, feel you are qualified to assess Moyes both in a tactical analysys and a psychological one. Your opinion is based upon what you see on a tv or pc screen once per week, just like many others here, yet Moyes' opinion is slightly more professional and has a damn sight more riding on it in regards to the needs of the club, than simply being disgruntled on a forum, if we don't get it right on the day.

 

We could play Velios. Will that improve our defensive issues? Will it make our wing men charge down the line any better? Moyes has to work with the 'most likely' players to do a job. Meanwhile, we have to decide which stream is giving us the match in a language we can understand.

[Hafnia]

 

 

 

Try going to a few games Pete and you may just notice that we play 442 at times as well

 

Are the formations on TV different from the ones at the stadium Dunc? When I've been the match and watched the game at home they look exactly the same...

[pete0]

Are the formations on TV different from the ones at the stadium Dunc? When I've been the match and watched the game at home they look exactly the same...

Thanks, Hafnia. Saved me from wasting sometime.

However, Dunc has a point. It is amazing how different the game is when you're at Goodison, maybe I should put a piece of masking tape down my monitor/tv to get a more life-like experience? You'd think I'd never been the way some posters go on here. How many times in Moyes reign have we gone 442 or anything other than 451 for that matter? How many times have under-performing favourites been dropped? Even worst, how many times has Moyes played people out of position needlessly?

[c1982]

Moyes out... I reckon we could get Steve Clarke!!!

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Are the formations on TV different from the ones at the stadium Dunc? When I've been the match and watched the game at home they look exactly the same...

 

 

No but apparently you and your commentator never picked up on it, maybe you should try a different stream

 

We played 442 at West Ham with Vic and Jelavic upfront. We also played 442 for periods in the second half yesterday

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Thanks, Hafnia. Saved me from wasting sometime.

However, Dunc has a point. It is amazing how different the game is when you're at Goodison, maybe I should put a piece of masking tape down my monitor/tv to get a more life-like experience? You'd think I'd never been the way some posters go on here. How many times in Moyes reign have we gone 442 or anything other than 451 for that matter? How many times have under-performing favourites been dropped? Even worst, how many times has Moyes played people out of position needlessly?

 

 

I must admit I do wonder whether or not you have ever been to a game sometimes

 

Phil Neville is supposedly Moyse's number 1 favourite yet he spent the first few months of last season dropped to the bench and only got back in when the injuries kicked in. This season he has pretty much had to play everytime he is fit due , agai mostly down to injuries to other players, yet the favouritism theorists tend to erase that fact from their memory because it doesnt fit in well with their bleating

[MikeO]

Nice shot against the bar yesterday....but Leeds lost.

 

Strangely Wednesday have been on the up since he left them .

[Sideliner]

" Free thinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs , privileges , or beliefs.

This state of mind is not common , but it is essential for right thinking ; where it is absent , discussion is apt to become worse than useless." - Leo Tolstoy

 

i do find it strange that some people are of the opinion that a spectator sitting against the ceiling at Goodison is in a better position to form an opinion of the game , the players and the coach than someone sitting somewhere in the bush a thousand miles away with a 3D big screen and close-up replays from different angles

[Avinalaff]

" Free thinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs , privileges , or beliefs.

This state of mind is not common , but it is essential for right thinking ; where it is absent , discussion is apt to become worse than useless." - Leo Tolstoy

 

i do find it strange that some people are of the opinion that a spectator sitting against the ceiling at Goodison is in a better position to form an opinion of the game , the players and the coach than someone sitting somewhere in the bush a thousand miles away with a 3D big screen and close-up replays from different angles

 

What's with all the quotes? Are you attempting to educate us?

 

The lads at the game see the whole pitch for the whole game. They see all the off the ball players too when the camera follows the ball. They are also able to make allowances for players playing in wind, or rain, which you don't see on tv so much, and funnily enough, they are also able to watch action replays just like anybody else. I'm not saying that it offers the best opinon, but what I will say is that most of the negativity comes from guys who only watch games from their computers.

[Sideliner]

if that is the case studio analysts should also rather keep quiet because they are making comments without having seen the whole picture -

i believe someone reading a match report in the newspaper about Mr Moyes's substitutions in the last 2 games is intitled to his opinion - you never know - he might be right -

let us rather concentrate on the content rather than the origen -

 

the Quotes ? information according to some people is more reliable if the source is a recognized person (like Mr Moyes ) and not just a cricket squeaking in the bush

[Avinalaff]

if that is the case studio analysts should also rather keep quiet because they are making comments without having seen the whole picture -

i believe someone reading a match report in the newspaper about Mr Moyes's substitutions in the last 2 games is intitled to his opinion - you never know - he might be right -

let us rather concentrate on the content rather than the origen -

 

the Quotes ? information according to some people is more reliable if the source is a recognized person (like Mr Moyes ) and not just a cricket squeaking in the bush

 

Let me remind you, that it was you who challenged anothers opinion, and you, who felt you knew best.

 

i strongly disagree with the statement that " only the manager and his team can make decisions with any genuine knowledge " - even the best managers make mistakes - just less than the worst ones -

all we are saying is that Moyes is making a mistake by persisting with out of form experienced players - winning 1 game out of 9 - without giving promising youngsters a proper chance (not just 10 min against Chelsea) to prove themselves - or at least giving more squad players gametime whenever the opportunity arises - he is too conservative and don't want to take chances - that is why he keeps on playing Neville while youngsters are mainly used as benchwarmers and emergency personell in the last 10 min of a game - we just disagree with his conservative gameplan of always falling back on experience instead of giving potential a fair opportunity - how many more chances does Jelavic want before Velios will get a single proper chance ?

 

You might want to read your post again.

[Sideliner]

Avinalaf you unfortunately do not seem to understand my African english -

maybe you shoudl also read my post again - i unfortunately cannot put my point any clearer than i already have -

let us rather agree to disagree because we do not seem to understand each other's logic -

the crux of my argument is that everybody no matter how insignificant they might be is entitled to have their own opinion - even if that means criticizing someone else's opinion - surely i am entitled to say The Man On The Moon is wrong if i think so and give my reasons why or are certain people (like Mr Moyes and Neville ) above criticism ?

[Avinalaff]

Avinalaf you unfortunately do not seem to understand my African english -

maybe you shoudl also read my post again - i unfortunately cannot put my point any clearer than i already have -

let us rather agree to disagree because we do not seem to understand each other's logic -

the crux of my argument is that everybody no matter how insignificant they might be is entitled to have their own opinion - even if that means criticizing someone else's opinion - surely i am entitled to say The Man On The Moon is wrong if i think so and give my reasons why or are certain people (like Mr Moyes and Neville ) above criticism ?

 

I understand you very clearly thank you. I just think you are talking shite.

[Hafnia]

If someone does the majority of everything seemingly right does that make them immune from criticism on the things that don't appear to be right? Not for me.

 

We are not blessed to have moyes, he gets a damn good salary and 'adjusted expectations' based on what he has to work with.

 

There are some things that bother me regarding him:- 1. Youth development and getting them into first team. 2. Substitutions 3. Getting his strikers performing consistently. They seem to have one good season and then decline.

[Shukes]

" Free thinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs , privileges , or beliefs.

This state of mind is not common , but it is essential for right thinking ; where it is absent , discussion is apt to become worse than useless." - Leo Tolstoy

 

i do find it strange that some people are of the opinion that a spectator sitting against the ceiling at Goodison is in a better position to form an opinion of the game , the players and the coach than someone sitting somewhere in the bush a thousand miles away with a 3D big screen and close-up replays from different angles

 

I would have to say it makes a big difference friend.

 

Every goal or tackle you watch looks entirely different from seeing it on TV. I remember watching Big Dunc knock in a hat trick of pretty scruffy looking goals and then watching it on TV the very same night and thinking i had watched a different game. the hat trick looked a pretty special one on TV. But being there you could see that he didnt exactly hit any how he would have wanted to.

 

My point is that when you are there in the stadium you not only see what is happening, you see it from the players level, you dont get to overlook the filed like you do on TV and cannot always see that easy pass out wide to the left etc. You also feel the atmosphere of how the match is panning out, which again you cannot replicate on TV.

 

Im not saying this as an elitist fan by the way as i have not been to goodison for money reasons since that fateful Lescott/Aresnal day when i took my Aresnal supporting son...GRR! but i do watch every single match on the internet and long to go again.

[Shukes]

I have been scouring leeds fan sites today and for the most part the fans are saying that Barkley was the best performer for thier team. They say that he looked a class above and must be wandering what hes got himself into as he has a stiff neck this morning from watching the ball fly over the midfield continuously.

 

All in all it sounds like he was the most likely player to score for them and they are pretty happy with his first match, especaily as he had little to no time to adjust before being thrown in at the deep end.

 

Hopefully he will be left there till the end o0f the season or brought back and given a proper run in the team.

[Bailey]

No but apparently you and your commentator never picked up on it, maybe you should try a different stream

 

We played 442 at West Ham with Vic and Jelavic upfront. We also played 442 for periods in the second half yesterday

 

If you wanted to be pedantic we played a more 4-4-1-1 because one of the strikers was always dropping off which effectively makes it the same 4-4-1-1 we have always played with Cahill or Felli behind the striker. The only difference is that they are natural midfielders and drop a little deeper and the other two are natural strikers who stay forward more.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

If you wanted to be pedantic we played a more 4-4-1-1 because one of the strikers was always dropping off which effectively makes it the same 4-4-1-1 we have always played with Cahill or Felli behind the striker. The only difference is that they are natural midfielders and drop a little deeper and the other two are natural strikers who stay forward more.

 

 

No Im not being pedantic, just more observant. I think you will find we played 4-4-2

 

Or do people in here know more about the formation than David Moyes?

 

http://www.liverpool...00252-32486626/

 

" We decided to go 4-4-2 with the two boys up front and what we have done is won in another fashion.

“I have learnt you can’t just have one way of playing in the Premier League."

Edited January 14, 2013 by duncanmckenzieismagic