Ross Barkley

[Bailey]

It was the first team games that improved Coleman. The loan helped and I never have an issue with young players going out on loan but it was clear that Coleman was exactly what we needed down the right at the time and it took forever to get more than about 20mins. Then the same was said about him being right back. The theme was he iant going to improve defensively if he does start playing games in defence. It has only been the injury to Hibbert that has given him this chance, otherwise Im sure we would all be scratching out head.

 

Its clear as day that Barkley needs games. He needs to learn that he cant make those mistakes in the top flight. But lets not also forget he isnt the only one playing silly passes. Again Im not saying he should start every game but Moyes needs use him in the fixtures he can get the most out of him, which probably isnt going to against Sunderland to be perfectly honest.

[GoodisonRoad]

IMO he was shite against Spurs and he started equally poorly against Arsenal but grew into the game and in the end put in a fairly accomplished performance

 

Personally I still have very high hopes for Barkley and I do firmly believe that he is going to be a top player. The problem is all the hype that has surrounded him since he first came onto the scene as a 16 year old. People seem to forget how much football he has missed through injury and that has really hampered his development. You can still see even now that some of his decision making at times is poor. He sometimes looks for the Hollywood ball when a 5 yard pass is a better option, sometimes he wants to hold onto the ball too long, sometimes he wants too much time.

 

IMO these are just rough edges that are attributable to his lack of football and they will improve as he gets more experience. Now this is where all the debate starts , the more impatient fans will jump up and down and stamp their feet saying he should be getting that game time in the first team now

 

Again its only my opinion but I think Moyes has handled him perfectly, he took him out of the spotlight and got him playing as much football as possible for the reserves and U18s last year and he has farmed him out on loan to the Championship this year. Outside of the first team spotlight Barkley has played in just about every Everton game he has been eligible for , this has allowed him to develop and make all of his mistakes without all the pressure that our fickle fans bring

 

Moyes watches him everyday in training , he speaks to him all the time, Barkley himself has said in the press that he believes that he is in good hands The bottom line is that when Moyes feels he is ready then he will play him

 

Seamus Coleman is a good example, when he first burst onto the scene people in here were demanding that he should be in the side when it was obvious he wasn't ready defensively, so Moyes sent him out on loan to the Championship to help develop his game and he pushed him into midfield to get him game time and when Moyes felt that he was ready he played him .Now look at him, and yes that was down to Moyes not the fans as some people in here would have you believe

 

I'm sorry Dunc, but your so far up Moyes' arse sometimes its actually frightening.

 

I've not heard one person on here say that he should be in the first team every week, the debate begins in why Moyes thinks Barkley is going to come in against Arsenal and Spurs away, 2 very big games for us in terms of where are season is going and be able to offer us something, when he hasnt had the match experience against the likes of QPR, Wigan, Reading etc at home. Its all good you coming on here saying he was shite and he's missed a lot of football, ever had a thought as to why? (apart from the injury he had, what? 2 years ago now?) Why was he not given half an hour here and there or the odd start against relegation fodder? as far as i can remember he didnt even play in the early stages of the cup, and well we all remember the Cheltenham game... Im yet to hear someone defend Moyes as to why this is, but if there is anyone who can do it, you probably could.

[pete0]

He was better than Osman v Spurs and better than Pienaar against Arsenal, but lets pick his faults to justify Moyes leaving him out all season and sticking with the regulars he was better than.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

I'm sorry Dunc, but your so far up Moyes' arse sometimes its actually frightening.

 

I've not heard one person on here say that he should be in the first team every week, the debate begins in why Moyes thinks Barkley is going to come in against Arsenal and Spurs away, 2 very big games for us in terms of where are season is going and be able to offer us something, when he hasnt had the match experience against the likes of QPR, Wigan, Reading etc at home. Its all good you coming on here saying he was shite and he's missed a lot of football, ever had a thought as to why? (apart from the injury he had, what? 2 years ago now?) Why was he not given half an hour here and there or the odd start against relegation fodder? as far as i can remember he didnt even play in the early stages of the cup, and well we all remember the Cheltenham game... Im yet to hear someone defend Moyes as to why this is, but if there is anyone who can do it, you probably could.

Just because I trust the manager and think he knows what he is doing doesn't mean Im up his arse

 

The people who are screaming for him to be playing in the first team are the same people who will be on his back as soon as he does anything wrong. If you haven't done already I would suggest that you read Mick Rathbone autobiography to see just what that can do to a young players confidence. It could destroy his career before its even begun

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

He was better than Osman v Spurs and better than Pienaar against Arsenal, but lets pick his faults to justify Moyes leaving him out all season and sticking with the regulars he was better than.

 

I don't think he was much worse than Osman in that game and he was definitely better than Piennar against Arsenal

 

Both Osman and Piennar have been shite lately.

 

Happy????????

 

Either way that is all totally irrelevant to Ross Barkleys development

[Steve_E]

Just because I trust the manager and think he knows what he is doing doesn't mean Im up his arse

 

The people who are screaming for him to be playing in the first team are the same people who will be on his back as soon as he does anything wrong. If you haven't done already I would suggest that you read Mick Rathbone autobiography to see just what that can do to a young players confidence. It could destroy his career before its even begun

 

You might like to think that, but the opposite has been proven so far (last two games he's played), at least on this site.

[GoodisonRoad]

Just because I trust the manager and think he knows what he is doing doesn't mean Im up his arse

 

The people who are screaming for him to be playing in the first team are the same people who will be on his back as soon as he does anything wrong. If you haven't done already I would suggest that you read Mick Rathbone autobiography to see just what that can do to a young players confidence. It could destroy his career before its even begun

 

Who is screaming for him to be in the first team? I think everyone just thinks we should be seeing more of him than we have done, and not seeing him thrown in against the big boys and in big games, that would make sense, no? If it could have destroyed his career, why has he been allowed to go out on loan?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Who is screaming for him to be in the first team? I think everyone just thinks we should be seeing more of him than we have done, and not seeing him thrown in against the big boys and in big games, that would make sense, no? If it could have destroyed his career, why has he been allowed to go out on loan?

 

 

I really didn't think it was that difficult to understand, but you have clearly missed my point entirely

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

You might like to think that, but the opposite has been proven so far (last two games he's played), at least on this site.

 

I wouldn't like to think it at all, I would like to think that all Evertonians would get behind the team and the manager, however the reality is that there are plenty of fickle fans about and this site certainly has its fair share

 

Some fans who have never even seen the lad play would be expecting him to be a world beater from the off and if he started making mistakes that cost us points they would turn on him in an instant. Its even more prevalent with home grown players , just look at the abuse the likes of Hibbert, Osman, Unsworth , Anichebe and Eberell have had over the years

[Hafnia]

Oh seriously... Some people are sad gits, they don't have a footballing mind, they choose to follow the manager through thick and thin.

 

If we had mourinho I would argue the toss about the things he does, just like my brother did when Kendall showed so much faith in Adrian Heath (was proven right).

 

Barkley is the best creative player we've had in a long long time. He should have been use more, hasn't, and when has- he's been used out of position.

[Avinalaff]

Oh seriously... Some people are sad gits, they don't have a footballing mind, they choose to follow the manager through thick and thin.

 

If we had mourinho I would argue the toss about the things he does, just like my brother did when Kendall showed so much faith in Adrian Heath (was proven right).

 

Barkley is the best creative player we've had in a long long time. He should have been use more, hasn't, and when has- he's been used out of position.

 

Others like to criticise and moan moan moan

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Oh seriously... Some people are sad gits, they don't have a footballing mind, they choose to follow the manager through thick and thin.

 

If we had mourinho I would argue the toss about the things he does, just like my brother did when Kendall showed so much faith in Adrian Heath (was proven right).

 

Barkley is the best creative player we've had in a long long time. He should have been use more, hasn't, and when has- he's been used out of position.

 

Ha ha hilarious

 

Are you seriously trying to tell me that because my thought process is more like a man who has been voted 3 times manager of the year than you then I don't have a footballing mind?

[Hafnia]

 

Ha ha hilarious

 

Are you seriously trying to tell me that because my thought process is more like a man who has been voted 3 times manager of the year than you then I don't have a footballing mind?

No I think it proves that you would sooner ignore any conservative traits that moyes has demonstrated over the years and class them as being sensible. I class his overly cautious approach as dour pragmatism. Nobody is perfect, moyes is good, but he's not perfect. Don't show so much blind faith.

 

When he does throw caution to the wind he often does it in the way a child who has been press ganged into making a cup of tea - they tend to make it taste bad so they won't get asked again.

 

Why when asked to play Barkley more would he throw him in against top 4 opposition and then out of position??? Does he want to be proven right??? Well I think Barkley proved him wrong against arsenal. Moyes will accept players losing possession when they try and get rid of it (Neville, jags, Naismith) but will not trust players who lose it trying to do something with it.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

No I think it proves that you would sooner ignore any conservative traits that moyes has demonstrated over the years and class them as being sensible. I class his overly cautious approach as dour pragmatism. Nobody is perfect, moyes is good, but he's not perfect. Don't show so much blind faith.

 

When he does throw caution to the wind he often does it in the way a child who has been press ganged into making a cup of tea - they tend to make it taste bad so they won't get asked again.

 

Why when asked to play Barkley more would he throw him in against top 4 opposition and then out of position??? Does he want to be proven right??? Well I think Barkley proved him wrong against arsenal. Moyes will accept players losing possession when they try and get rid of it (Neville, jags, Naismith) but will not trust players who lose it trying to do something with it.

 

 

Have you ever considered that just maybe Moyes feels that the lad has learnt something from all the extra football he has had in the past 18 months and maybe he feels he can trust him a bit more now?

 

A quote from Moyes

 

“He has a lot of maturing to do and make sure he does not lose the ball in the wrong areas of the pitch.

“We have to bring him along and hope we get him better over the next year or two.

“He is beginning to show more signs than he has shown in the past and he is maturing a bit more. He has not been fazed by it but we are still bedding him down to where we think we can get him playing

 

 

I think the highlighted part of Moyes quote is the bit you don't seem to be able to grasp. Nobody is worried about Barkley losing the ball when he tries to beat a man on the edge of the opposition area, its when he does it in our area

 

People keep throwing in Osman , Neville , Jags and Naismith , the difference Is that they are all seasoned professionals and they have proved that they can handle the abuse they get from fickle fans, they can just pick themselves up and go again. Would a teenager be able to do that?

 

I have never once claimed that Moyes is perfect , I simply believe he is a much, much better manager than you give him credit for

 

Edited April 21, 2013 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Bailey]

Unfortunately if he cant deal with some abuse then he will never make it in the top flight.

 

Put it this way, if Barkley had played that pass of Bainseys yesterday there would have been uproar about him not being ready. We have seen the same thing from Mirallas, Osman, Naismith and Pienaar that have all conceded chances against us and they have also been unnecessary passes in our own half of the field.

 

They are humans and they will make mistakes. The quickest way to learn is by making mistakes and whilst Im sure Barkley will continue to do these things throughout his career to some extent, he wont learn anything by sitting on the bench or playing for the rezzies.

 

I didnt disagree with Barkley not starting yesterday because I knew how Sunderland would play and I knew how we would play (ie not through midfield). His substitution was pointless because we went route one and all he was going to achieve was a sore neck from watching the ball being launched forward by our CB's. He needs to be played in the right games to get the best out of him, and I think the Fulham game would be perfect.

[Sibdane]

Unfortunately if he cant deal with some abuse then he will never make it in the top flight.

 

Put it this way, if Barkley had played that pass of Bainseys yesterday there would have been uproar about him not being ready. We have seen the same thing from Mirallas, Osman, Naismith and Pienaar that have all conceded chances against us and they have also been unnecessary passes in our own half of the field.

Spot on about Baines-pass analogy.

[Avinalaff]

Barkley is a kid learning his trade, and not a top flight pro player in his prime.

 

Anybody fan aiming abuse at him is a tool.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.football365.com/everton/8737265/Everton-s-Ross-Barkley-sets-sights-on-regular-spot-under-new-boss

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-boss-roberto-martinez-5377509?

[Hafnia]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-boss-roberto-martinez-5377509?

 

I did read this with a sense of excitement that Martinez is going to project and build this this lads talents and confidence rather than issue a "he's still a young boy and we will bring him along at the right pace, he will rejoin the lads of his own age" so that by the time he is 24 he will have lost all his youthful creativity and will be making side ways passes for someone like Wolves.

 

I do understand how Moyes was scared of his lack of appreciation as to where he is to look after the ball, but in reality his fear of this versus the chance of him creating something out of nothing summed up Moyesies philsophy. He would sooner focus on not conceding as opposed to giving the opponents something to worry about. Thats fine for some, but its not for me.

 

Back to Barkley players like him are a different animal to the likes of your Nevilles, Carraghers, Adams, they are steady eddies, who will do what you expect them to do. He is in the same bracket as Rooney, Gazza, Ginola, Di Canio, Zola. They do the unexpected and need to be encouraged to feel free to play like the kid in the park, its after all what the fans love to see.

 

I think Martinez will use Barkley as his creator and build the midfield around him. Big Big season for Ross, exciting times for evertonians who want to see one of their own step into the limelight and express the talent they have. There will be mistakes, but there will be flashes of brilliance.

[Peter H]

Just the fact that he mentioned Vellios is in its own brilliant but the praise for Barkley is amazing.

 

How many times did Vellios get mentioned before when talking about the competition amongst the forwards?

[Hafnia]

Just the fact that he mentioned Vellios is in its own brilliant but the praise for Barkley is amazing.

 

How many times did Vellios get mentioned before when talking about the competition amongst the forwards?

 

Looking at other forums, the general opinion is that Moyes hasn't done the likes of Duffy, Vellios and Barkley any favours. I think the reason is that they have come into the team a good while ago and shown ability to play at the highest level - but where has that got them?

 

For me one of the biggest what ifs is the story of Jose Baxter... Ok he may not actually have been the talent he was touted to be but he was actually offered a decent contract which he rejected - or could he have been that great talent? We will never know. All I know is that he scored a goal of unbelievable qulaity against Forest pre season a few years back and really that was it... I think he missed too much development and exposure of real football, by the time he got his loan to tranmere I fear his time had passed. There is a fine line in player development.

[SimonButtle]

 

Looking at other forums, the general opinion is that Moyes hasn't done the likes of Duffy, Vellios and Barkley any favours. I think the reason is that they have come into the team a good while ago and shown ability to play at the highest level - but where has that got them?

 

For me one of the biggest what ifs is the story of Jose Baxter... Ok he may not actually have been the talent he was touted to be but he was actually offered a decent contract which he rejected - or could he have been that great talent? We will never know. All I know is that he scored a goal of unbelievable qulaity against Forest pre season a few years back and really that was it... I think he missed too much development and exposure of real football, by the time he got his loan to tranmere I fear his time had passed. There is a fine line in player development.

Haf, i have said on numerous occasions that i think one day Baxter will come back to haunt us, scored a load for a crap league 1 team last year, and is interesting championship clubs, we should have kept him imo.

[marcopaulo]

wasn't he a bit of a tool off the pitch? playboy antics and all that...don't want that kind here

[pete0]

wasn't he a bit of a tool off the pitch? playboy antics and all that...don't want that kind here

He had the mix up in Kirkby, but from what I've heard he's a decent enough lad just not very bright. Rejecting the Everton contract to go play competitive football says a lot about his character.

[SimonButtle]

wasn't he a bit of a tool off the pitch? playboy antics and all that...don't want that kind here

I heard this was why Vellios didn't get into the team under Moyes

[Hafnia]

wasn't he a bit of a tool off the pitch? playboy antics and all that...don't want that kind here

 

I thought that - but in reality probably no more than the average young player. He showed tremendous courage in rejecting a contract renewal to go and seek first team football, it almost backfired on him but Stubbs got in touch with Paul Gerrard at Oldham and he impressed Paul Dickov. He became disillusioned as a bench warming perma reserve - I don't blame him and admire his guts.

 

I think it brings Martinez's comments about young players and their need for 'competitive' games:-

 

You come to the conclusion that the countries that develop the best young players are the ones who have a good games programme and the young players are allowed to play competitive football.

“That is something we are missing.

“Reserve football is very good for a young player for the first six months but after that I don’t think it has the stimulation that a young player needs to develop.

“The Premier League and FA are putting in a lot of effort trying to find the right solution but it is very difficult to find the perfect environment for these youngsters to develop because they are missing competitive football at a crucial time.

“Loan football then becomes a need. The experiences of the players are away from the usual environment, away from your football club, and they can become a little bit of a gamble.”

 

Everything he says is something I've always thought. The one thing that stuck out for me was that the likes of Arteta and Cahill used to actively look to get the ball to Baxter when he did get game time, on one occassion arteta hit a corner to baxter who was 25 yards out and he hit it on the volley (scholes style) - he isn't gonna do that unless he thought the kid had the technique to pull it off.

 

I hope the lad makes it as a premier level footballer, but I do fear he missed too much development at a key age.

 

I would like to see us set up an agreement with clubs like Tranmere, Crewe and Blackpool, dependant on the stage of the player (better ones go to Blackpool, younger less experienced to Tranmere etc) - and we get first refusal on any of their next superstars.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Hafnia

[mcirony]

 

I thought that - but in reality probably no more than the average young player. He showed tremendous courage in rejecting a contract renewal to go and seek first team football, it almost backfired on him but Stubbs got in touch with Paul Gerrard at Oldham and he impressed Paul Dickov. He became disillusioned as a bench warming perma reserve - I don't blame him and admire his guts.

 

I think it brings Martinez's comments about young players and their need for 'competitive' games:-

 

You come to the conclusion that the countries that develop the best young players are the ones who have a good games programme and the young players are allowed to play competitive football.

That is something we are missing.

Reserve football is very good for a young player for the first six months but after that I dont think it has the stimulation that a young player needs to develop.

The Premier League and FA are putting in a lot of effort trying to find the right solution but it is very difficult to find the perfect environment for these youngsters to develop because they are missing competitive football at a crucial time.

Loan football then becomes a need. The experiences of the players are away from the usual environment, away from your football club, and they can become a little bit of a gamble.

 

Everything he says is something I've always thought. The one thing that stuck out for me was that the likes of Arteta and Cahill used to actively look to get the ball to Baxter when he did get game time, on one occassion arteta hit a corner to baxter who was 25 yards out and he hit it on the volley (scholes style) - he isn't gonna do that unless he thought the kid had the technique to pull it off.

 

I hope the lad makes it as a premier level footballer, but I do fear he missed too much development at a key age.

 

I would like to see us set up an agreement with clubs like Tranmere, Crewe and Blackpool, dependant on the stage of the player (better ones go to Blackpool, younger less experienced to Tranmere etc) - and we get first refusal on any of their next superstars.

Not quite the same thing but we seem to be building a bit of a relationship with Brentford, with McAleny going there on loan to join Bidwell and Forshaw who signed permanent deals. I assume we have a healthy sell on clause for those two!

[Guest]

Not quite the same thing but we seem to be building a bit of a relationship with Brentford, with McAleny going there on loan to join Bidwell and Forshaw who signed permanent deals. I assume we have a healthy sell on clause for those two!

Probably not! ha ha. I think if we start off well Velios would be ideal for a loan deal to a club whose manager has similar principles or maybe abroad? You want him to play most games so a Watford,Bolton,Leeds would suit him and for the Brownings etc we have Peas n Gravy at Sheff Utd which is ideal. Big club playing in front of big crowds

[dweagle6]

I saw Ross today after the Juventus Match come on turn himself into some space and almost fire home the game winner about with about 89.35 seconds on the clock and took his penalty with ease as well. Very Impressed but it will be interesting to see how Roberto plans to utilize him in the formation they played last night

 

Afterwards they showed Pirlo come up to Ross and take off his shirt asking to swap and they did and it showed Pirlo walking into the baseball dugout with it over his shoulder. I wonder if Ross has approached Pirlo before the spot kicks about swapping after the game or if it was because Pirlo knows how big a talent Ross can be and wanted it as a keepsake because it will probably be the only time he plays against him in his career.