Suarez racism against Evra

[Avinalaff]

The term "Negrito" is the Spanish diminutive of negro, i.e. "little black person", referring to their small stature, and was coined by early European explorers

[MikeO]

Wouldn't be at all surprised if the ban was reduced on appeal though....FA have shown "what they could do if they wanted" but I think they'll back down.

 

Three or four games would be my guess.

[FanchesterCity]

Wouldn't be at all surprised if the ban was reduced on appeal though....FA have shown "what they could do if they wanted" but I think they'll back down.

 

Three or four games would be my guess.

 

I thought that too at first.... go for 8, then reduce to 6, or possibly 4, BUT they've also stated they can extend the ban if an appeal fails.

 

If they reduce the ban, how can they possibly justify doing so? Surely only 'in light of new evidence' can they diminish the punishment.

 

Assuming Liverpool have no such new evidence, then I can only see them appealing on the grounds of Suarez's honesty and cultural naivety, both of which are points already taken into account.

[MikeO]

I thought that too at first.... go for 8, then reduce to 6, or possibly 4, BUT they've also stated they can extend the ban if an appeal fails.

 

If they reduce the ban, how can they possibly justify doing so? Surely only 'in light of new evidence' can they diminish the punishment.

 

Assuming Liverpool have no such new evidence, then I can only see them appealing on the grounds of Suarez's honesty and cultural naivety, both of which are points already taken into account.

 

Hope you're right.

[FanchesterCity]

I actually like Liverpool as a club, but at the moment, they are failing to see what others are seeing in Suarez.

He's an irritant. If that's part of his game, fine.... Bellamy's one... Cahill is one... nothing wrong with it, but at LEAST acknowledge that's part of their game. The blind 'everybody's out to get him' card is rubbish.

 

Not sure about the supporters, I think you might be slightly biased ;-) you probably have in-built Liverpool fan detection and notice them phoning in more!

 

We all like a good moan, and they've had a lot going on at their place to voice opinion on.

[Hafnia]

The only thing to like about Suarez is his talent as a footballer, everything else belongs in the gutter. His talent as a player is why Liverpool are choosing to ignore it.

[MikeO]

This is very strange (not )...I heard John Barnes on the radio a couple of days back being totally hard-line....now he's fallen into the Liverpool line it seems...

 

 

"Twenty years ago in England, the same people in England now condemning him were ignorant as to what racism is. Why don't they condemn themselves?"

 

What?

 

"When Manchester United play Liverpool and 10,000 United fans are saying 'you Scouse thieves', I'd like them all to be banned."

 

Really?

 

"And Liverpool fans too, when they say 'you Manc or whatever'. So where are we going to draw the line?"

 

Shame on you John....you of all people should know better.

[Redside]

Hrmmmm...

[Hafnia]

Maybe just for the benefit of Liverpool being able to defend their prized asset we allow them to paper over Suarez using the word negrito? After all he can't be racist his team mates black and has backed him. His granddad is black so why would he use a word that describes someone as little and black when having an altercation?

 

Yeah it's not important, let's just shake hands and get on with it.

 

No one is accusing him of being racist, he admitted using a word that has been deemed offensive.

 

That's it - severe punishment given, don't be under any illusions, this will not be tolerated. Is it severe? Yes, does it send out the message "don't even think about it!" - I hope so - cos I just wanna enjoy football. Being paid ridiculous sums of money carries more responsibilty than just putting the ball in the net, far more.

[Guest blueboy122]

I could honestley write on this forum all night to discuss the disgusting behaviour of all involved with Liverpool football club there at the moment an embarresment to the city. Dogleash is pathetic with his bullshit story of everyone trying to get suarez making out he is becoming some bully victim its a joke. That whole wearing tshirts with Suarez on was also a joke and this whole its not racist when he has basically called someone a nigger (is that right? do they refer to the same thing nigerito or what ever he admitted to saying) in a heated exchange when they were squaring up. Can you imagine if it was the other way round and a Man united player called a Liverpool player a nigger, there would be a civil war. Another thing is that this whole cultural shite is annoying me so much, Suarez is a grown man he knows the implications when calling someone a nigger in that situation can only be taken one way and thats racist and offensive. I would like to ask Mr Dogleash about the cultural defence he has for his player, Is suarez playing in south america now? Suarez has been playing in Europe since 2006 is that sort of language accepted in Holland (I wonder whether Clarence Seedorf, Edgar Davids etc would be familiar with this term in Holland?

 

Fuck off Dogleash, Fuck Off Liverpool, Fuck Off Suarez.

[Redside]

As everyone seems to know everything a Liverpool surpporter thinks.

 

I'm open to ur questions on my opinions.

 

The definition of the word used by Evra (in Spanish)

 

Sudaca:= A Spanish colloquial term used most typically in Spain to denote people from Latin America in a derogatory or pejorative way.

 

The definition of the word used by Suarez (after Evra)

 

Negrito:= negrito is used, as a term of endearment meaning...considered to be widespread in Argentina or Uruguay.

 

These are the first things that come up, for the definitions of each word.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Redside

[Matt]

As everyone seems to know everything a Liverpool surpporter thinks.

 

I'm open to ur questions on my opinions.

 

The definition of the word used by Evra (in Spanish)

 

Sudaca:= A Spanish colloquial term used most typically in Spain to denote people from Latin America in a derogatory or pejorative way.

 

The definition of the word used by Suarez (after Evra)

 

Negrito:= negrito is used, as a term of endearment meaning...considered to be widespread in Argentina or Uruguay.

 

These are the first things that come up, for the definitions of each word.

fair enough, but hes in England now. Here you couldnt sing 'baa baa black sheep' for a while because it was offensive As horrible as he is I want to believe he isnt a racist.

 

Cant wait for JTs verdict though.

[Avinalaff]

I could honestley write on this forum all night to discuss the disgusting behaviour of all involved with Liverpool football club there at the moment an embarresment to the city. Dogleash is pathetic with his bullshit story of everyone trying to get suarez making out he is becoming some bully victim its a joke. That whole wearing tshirts with Suarez on was also a joke and this whole its not racist when he has basically called someone a nigger (is that right? do they refer to the same thing nigerito or what ever he admitted to saying) in a heated exchange when they were squaring up. Can you imagine if it was the other way round and a Man united player called a Liverpool player a nigger, there would be a civil war. Another thing is that this whole cultural shite is annoying me so much, Suarez is a grown man he knows the implications when calling someone a nigger in that situation can only be taken one way and thats racist and offensive. I would like to ask Mr Dogleash about the cultural defence he has for his player, Is suarez playing in south america now? Suarez has been playing in Europe since 2006 is that sort of language accepted in Holland (I wonder whether Clarence Seedorf, Edgar Davids etc would be familiar with this term in Holland?

 

Fuck off Dogleash, Fuck Off Liverpool, Fuck Off Suarez.

 

Have some self respect mate.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Avinalaff

[Redside]

fair enough, but hes in England now. Here you couldnt sing 'baa baa black sheep' for a while because it was offensive As horrible as he is I want to believe he isnt a racist.

 

Cant wait for JTs verdict though.

 

JT's i feel will get brushed away the police will charge him and the FA will make something up that they cannot change him for them reasons.

 

I don't believe Suarez meant it in a racist way, But what gets me is Evra has also admitted to saying Sudaca which is a racist comment to a South American but i hear nothing of him getting Charged.

[GoodisonRoad]

JT's i feel will get brushed away the police will charge him and the FA will make something up that they cannot change him for them reasons.

 

I don't believe Suarez meant it in a racist way, But what gets me is Evra has also admitted to saying Sudaca which is a racist comment to a South American but i hear nothing of him getting Charged.

 

In what way did he mean it then?

[Redside]

In what way did he mean it then?

 

Well in his Country its Used in everyday talk and Evra and Suarez were talking in Spanish which is Suarez native tongue,

 

Hernandez (Mussy pea) used Negrito in a interview not long after the game talking about him own teammates.

 

This is why in a interview Suarez said it is nothing that his own team mates don't call him already.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Redside

[StevO]

I get all of this "its fine to say it back home", i really do. But they are here, and i'm trying to not be racist myself here, but a lot of people from different cultures come to the UK, and if they are here they should act appropriately, live by our rules, talk our talk.

This is England, not Spain, not France, Not South America, I dont care if its fine in another country, its not fine here.

[Hafnia]

We need to establish what is acceptable and what isn't.

 

IMO...... Referring to a person by the colour of their skin when different to yours is offensive - simple as that. It doesn't neccesarily mean you are a racist, and in the same vein there are some people who have serious racist views who would not resort to such language.

 

The important issue and this is what Liverpool fail to see is that what Suarez said needs to be punished - naive, cultural ignorance whatever. For the greater good of society this type of language can not be tolerated and yes he may carry the can to a certain extent.

 

Liverpool missed a trick in my opinion - they would have won more respect if they came out and said "Suarez through cultural ignorance made a comment that was deemed inappropriate and offensive, he now knows this. We can categorically state that he never meant offence and he has apologised for his comments - we fully support the kick it out campaign"

 

Instead what they have done is played the "them against us" card, which in all honesty stinks. They have created a bigger problem which is that they are a high profile club who are trying to create a "using offensive language doesn't mean you are racist" argument.

 

I feel very strongly about this, as stated before my best friend growing up was treated different, insulted by children and adults, told to leave shops because he was black. Now he is treated 'overly' generously as if people want to wear him as a badge for half an hour to say "hey i'm not racist" - we are still a million miles away from being where we need to be.

 

As for John Terry? A 20 match ban, £500,000 fine and some form of community service should hopefully put some sense of perpective in his dragged up morals and principles, I really do detest this egotistically bully.

[StevO]

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/7392639/McGrath-Mauls-Glen

 

Interesting comments. I'm with him.

[Avinalaff]

http://www.football3...rath-Mauls-Glen

 

Interesting comments. I'm with him.

 

I'm not a fan of other people getting involved publicly. Talk about it privately, but keep opinions out of the public eye. They're just opinions, and as such are no more relevant than that of anybody else.

 

It's up to Johnson what he does. Mcgrath shouldn't single him out for criticism. It's great saying what he would do in the same circumstance, but unless you are in that situation, you can't comment. I'm fairly sure had Ferguson told Mcgrath to put the shirt on, he'd have done as he was told - end of.

 

You don't make a tit out of your boss and not regret it. Sometimes you have to keep quiet, and keep your head down, as your own protests won't solve the bigger problem, but simply serve to isolate you, and in many cases end your career. Dalglish will also be acting upon instruction from above. He isn't stupid. You don't get involved with matters such as racism, and represent your club, unless told to do so. It's too big a deal to act on impulse.

[Bill]

Suarez has admitted to some sort of racist remark, and we may never know exactly what it was, but he has been found guilty by the FA and has been Suitably punished for it, so for a non white person to come out and openly support him beggars belief.

 

I dont want to see him complaining to the Referee or the FA when the fans are calling him names, or throwing bananas at him.

He himself and and equally the whole of Liverpool FC have set the Kick racism out of football issue back 20 years, and on hindsight they should be totally embarrassed,

 

This comes from a club who spend years campaigning for justice when they think things have gone against them, As far as i am concerned its an absolute disgrace and although i am a Blue rather than a Red I now feel embarrassed to admit to people that i am from Liverpool. I'm stunned and disgusted.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Bill

[Guest blueboy122]

Avinalaff, What are you talking about? Self Respect? Please inform me of your view on my personal state? You are a complete wanker mate, what makes you sit there you sad bastard and comment on other peoples posts and say have some self respect, get off your high horse dickhead before I knock you off. Can not stand people like you who are all high and mighty infront of a computer screen. You are probably an odeous little man who got bullied at school and wife has left you because your that much of a loser.

[MikeO]

Tone it down a bit blueboy....you can defend yourself for sure but no need for abuse.

[Avinalaff]

Avinalaff, What are you talking about? Self Respect? Please inform me of your view on my personal state? You are a complete wanker mate, what makes you sit there you sad bastard and comment on other peoples posts and say have some self respect, get off your high horse dickhead before I knock you off. Can not stand people like you who are all high and mighty infront of a computer screen. You are probably an odeous little man who got bullied at school and wife has left you because your that much of a loser.

 

Yep, that's me mate. I 'am' a complete wanker. I 'did' get bullied at school, and funnily enough, my wife 'has' left me (only yesterday in fact) but I'd love to see you knock me off my high horse. 3 out of 4 ain't bad though cup cake.

Thanks for underlining my point regarding your self respect though.

[Redside]

On a good note for Suarez he has been voted by the FAN's to be Skysports player of 2011

 

Myself voted for RVP

Edited December 23, 2011 by Redside

[Louis]

There was a concerted effort to vote for Suarez as a way of showing support for him following the 8 game ban wasn't there?

[The Beard]

I have not read all posts in this thread but I do agree with what StevO and Bill have said.

 

I debated, mainly with Reds, who again feel so hard done by and many believe it is Alex Fergusons fault, staggering. Anyway I digress, SteveO's point about culture is a point I have brought up with Reds. In this City people are always bemoaning attitudes from ethnic groups, you will often hear people comment "They are in our country then they should adopt our culture". I agree to this to some degree while maintaing the essence of ones own culture. therefore Suarez will have known that using any terminology may be offensive. The argument from reds is that the word used is inoffensive in his own culture and I have read a letter from a female Argentian in tonights Liverpool Echo proclaiming the same. However the term 'Negrito' is used as a greeting rather like us calling someone mate or pal, when it used used in that context but derogatory in other situations. Now Liverpool playing Man Utd at Anfield, the game gets a bit feisty what way do you reckon Saurez made his comment to Evra?

 

Regarding the Liverpool Echo, this is another reason why I do not buy the rag. Have they condemned Suarez, have they distanced themselves from Liverpool, have they commented on the negativity the t-shirt stunt is portraying..........No, thought not.

 

Liverpool FC, and not being bitter, seem to want to take the high morality ground on every decision that goes against them, harking back to entry to the Champions League and having rules changed. If this issue would have concerned Wayne Rooney for example then they would have had street parties by now, this is why we have reached a siege mentality. If they accepted the decision and issued a form of apology that still maintained that no racist offence was meant but rather cultural exchange that was not meant to offend and Suarez apologises for that then issue over. As I have pointed out to other people supporting the perpetrator makes you just as guilty in my eyes.

Edited December 23, 2011 by The Beard

[Formby]

At the risk of sounding contentious, this whole issue with Suarez and Terry just shows how political the whole racism debate has got in this country. Would a hue and cry like this be given over any other racial term? Would a Pakistani player, or Chinese, or Arab or Jewish player be given the same column inches if they’d been the victim of a racial pejorative? Would anyone bat an eyelid if a footballer made a homophobic remark (America has made far greater strides than us on this, making sportsmen and women far more accountable). Would insulting someone’s religion, or bashing the Germans raise any more than a few smirks? I very much doubt it. Having degrees of acceptability and gradations of condemnation in regard to colour / sexuality / religion is absolutely farcical. All racism is ignorance and stupidity, and surprisingly enough, it can come from a white person, or an Asian, or a Chinese or, indeed, a black person. Of course, the BBC / media don’t like to advertise this because they’ve got a political agenda and their heads in the sand. They don’t want to hear what really goes on in Moss Side, Toxteth, Tottenham, or in those little Lancashire towns where white and Asian youth have running battles every weekend.

 

Many things get said in anger and not reflect how a person really feels. It doesn’t excuse the comments Suarez and Terry made. Saying unacceptable things just shows up what we all are: flawed, nasty and often hypocritical. What it does do (depressingly) is show how far we are off resolving deep anxieties about race in this country.

[Redside]

The Entire Suarez Case in Two and Half Minutes

 

 

[MikeO]

The Entire Suarez Case in Two and Half Minutes

 

The "Suarez is the victim" card eh .

 

And formby...

 

"Would a Pakistani player, or Chinese, or Arab or Jewish player be given the same column inches if they’d been the victim of a racial pejorative?

 

Yes I think they would.