Guest Nikica Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Yeh valid points. When you look towards the end of the season, and presuming both strikers are fit, Sturridge could end up being the main striker. Rooney started well under Moyes but with RVP fit and Mata in the team as well his place is no longer guarenteed and if they are out of the hunt for a CL place you can see him sulking, potentially causing disruption and looking to leave. If Rooney isnt enjoying himself off the field then it will show on the field. Purely speculation of course, they could (theoretically) win every game from now til the end of the season and be in with a shot of the title. I'm not sure what to make of Johnson on the whole. I havent seen an awful lot of him recently but I watched him against Utd in the League Cup and I thought he was really poor. Gave the ball away lots, poor final ball, poor strikes on goal and then he topped it by missing his penalty. His dribbling was good mind you and he beat his man on occasions but it was Buttner and when Evra came on he was kept pretty quiet. Its a weak pool of wingers though. That's a hard one. Wilshere and Barkley probably have around the same level of potential and whereas Wilshere burst onto the scene as a 16yo and rapidly improved he has now plateaued mainly as a result of injuries and also his attitude. Barkley on the other hand was held back by Moyes/injuries and he has now burst onto the scene and looks to have the world at his feet. At this stage, Wilshere is the more accomplished player in terms of all round ability but Barkley's talent and also the way he plays can lead to more game changing moments than Wilshere generally, and I think you can see Barkley maturing with every game (certainly before his recent injury). What I would say is that If England set up with Gerrard, Wilshere and Barkley there wouldnt be too many more central midfields in the WC (away from the very best teams) with that quality and variation, especially when they should theoretically work well together and suit each others style of play. Should clarify that I meant to type "Sturridge hasn't pulled up any trees for ENGLAND" above, not Liverpool. I've amended it now. Funny you should mention that because I've been thinking more and more than RVP and Rooney can't play in the same team as they're both best as pure number 9s. I think Rooney is the better overall player but RVP probably the better striker. However, I rate Mata above Rooney in the hole, so perhaps of one of RVP or Rooney was to be dropped it would be the latter - although his form has generally been excellent this season. So has Sturridge's though - I just feel Hodgson lacks the stones to drop a big name like Rooney. That's what I meant by highlights player - he's a bit of an enigma and to be fair everyone skins Buttner (and Evra too these days). He seems to have hit a bit of form in the league amidst that poor LC game at Old Trafford, but again I'd be judging by his productivity as the OT game is the one I watched in full. I'm not a fan of stats generally but when an inverted winger scores 6 goals in a few games for a lesser team like Sunderland it is commendable. He probably shouldn't start but even at City he struck me as a player who was capable of a bit of magic. I think he'd be a good option from the bench but, again, City (and even Sunderland fans pre the last few games) fans might say he is a highlights player. If he keeps scoring goals between now and June his productivity might give him an edge. Yeah, Wilshere looks like a conductor (although his dribbling is very good) and Barkley more explosive. And based on that... I'd say that's a fair assessment - Wilshere looks like the guy who will play a Xavi role whereas Barkley is more of a roamer - in essence Gerrard (Busquets) would hold, Wilshere (Xavi)would conduct and Barkley (Iniesta)would be a forward thinking playmaker by taking men out with dribbling and passing in the final third. Obviously they're nowhere near those three in their Barca pomp as a threesome (not many in history are), but that would be the theory. What I will say is that I've always felt Gerrard was better as an AM than a CM, but now his legs are gone he has been forced to play in a more disciplined fashion and he looks like a more reigned-in player for it - his positional discipline has improved. The big issue with Gerrard is his tendency to play a Hollywood ball or switch play when the easy pass is on. I notice he still does it a fair bit for both England and Liverpool and I have no idea why it hasn't been reduced from his game. Get him to play the shorter ball more and that is a nice midfield on paper - IF they can perform as a cohesive three and work well in tandem with the rest of the team. That's a big IF but they do have the quality to do it I think. I also tend to think players like Carrick and Barry are unfortunate not to start - in fact I think Carrick especially is better in that screener role than Gerrard is, but again Gerrard is captain and big name and will not be dropped. Edited February 5, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Should clarify that I meant to type "Sturridge hasn't pulled up any trees for ENGLAND" above, not Liverpool. I've amended it now. Funny you should mention that because I've been thinking more and more than RVP and Rooney can't play in the same team as they're both best as pure number 9s. I think Rooney is the better overall player but RVP probably the better striker. However, I rate Mata above Rooney in the hole, so perhaps of one of RVP or Rooney was to be dropped it would be the latter - although his form has generally been excellent this season. So has Sturridge's though - I just feel Hodgson lacks the stones to drop a big name like Rooney. That's what I meant by highlights player - he's a bit of an enigma and to be fair everyone skins Buttner (and Evra too these days). He seems to have hit a bit of form in the league amidst that poor LC game at Old Trafford, but again I'd be judging by his productivity as the OT game is the one I watched in full. I'm not a fan of stats generally but when an inverted winger scores 6 goals in a few games for a lesser team like Sunderland it is commendable. He probably shouldn't start but even at City he struck me as a player who was capable of a bit of magic. I think he'd be a good option from the bench but, again, City (and even Sunderland fans pre the last few games) fans might say he is a highlights player. If he keeps scoring goals between now and June his productivity might give him an edge. Yeah, Wilshere looks like a conductor (although his dribbling is very good) and Barkley more explosive. And based on that... I'd say that's a fair assessment - Wilshere looks like the guy who will play a Xavi role whereas Barkley is more of a roamer - in essence Gerrard (Busquets) would hold, Wilshere (Xavi)would conduct and Barkley (Iniesta)would be a forward thinking playmaker by taking men out with dribbling and passing in the final third. Obviously they're nowhere near those three in their Barca pomp as a threesome (not many in history are), but that would be the theory. What I will say is that I've always felt Gerrard was better as an AM than a CM, but now his legs are gone he has been forced to play in a more disciplined fashion and he looks like a more reigned-in player for it - his positional discipline has improved. The big issue with Gerrard is his tendency to play a Hollywood ball or switch play when the easy pass is on. I notice he still does it a fair bit for both England and Liverpool and I have no idea why it hasn't been reduced from his game. Get him to play the shorter ball more and that is a nice midfield on paper - IF they can perform as a cohesive three and work well in tandem with the rest of the team. That's a big IF but they do have the quality to do it I think. I also tend to think players like Carrick and Barry are unfortunate not to start - in fact I think Carrick especially is better in that screener role than Gerrard is, but again Gerrard is captain and big name and will not be dropped. Yeh I think Moyes now has 3 (4 if you include Kagawa but that's unlikely now) players for two spots. Its a nice position to be in considering 2 of them seem to be injured for parts of the season but when all 3 of them are fit it poses a problem because he cant drop one of them without causing a backlash. I think RVP and Mata would be the 2 players best suited to the striker/AM pairing which either leaves Rooney on the wing or on the bench. However, I get the feeling that Moyes will shoe horn them all in like he did at the weekend and Mata will be played out wide with the other two upfront. To be fair to Johnson I was a fan of his when it looked like he might be signing for us a couple of seasons back, and its only since then that I went off him. Its probably because I used to only see him come on as a sub and he used to do quite well. Its amazing how some players don't seem to be able to replicate form off the bench across a full 90 minutes. It would be hard to argue against not starting any player that is scoring and creating as many goals/chances as he is at the moment so it will be interesting to see if he can keep up his form. I wouldn't disagree with that. Gerrard does frustrate me when he plays for England because he is always trying to force passes forward which simply aren't on. Its made worse when he finally completes one after a dozen attempts and the commentators blow their load about how great his vision and passing range is. Having said that, bar the odd one or two, he was pretty controlled in that aspect of his game against us so maybe he is turning a corner. Having said that he is long in the tooth now and I cant see a leopard changing its spots... or stripes... or whatever pattern they have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yeh I think Moyes now has 3 (4 if you include Kagawa but that's unlikely now) players for two spots. Its a nice position to be in considering 2 of them seem to be injured for parts of the season but when all 3 of them are fit it poses a problem because he cant drop one of them without causing a backlash. I think RVP and Mata would be the 2 players best suited to the striker/AM pairing which either leaves Rooney on the wing or on the bench. However, I get the feeling that Moyes will shoe horn them all in like he did at the weekend and Mata will be played out wide with the other two upfront. To be fair to Johnson I was a fan of his when it looked like he might be signing for us a couple of seasons back, and its only since then that I went off him. Its probably because I used to only see him come on as a sub and he used to do quite well. Its amazing how some players don't seem to be able to replicate form off the bench across a full 90 minutes. It would be hard to argue against not starting any player that is scoring and creating as many goals/chances as he is at the moment so it will be interesting to see if he can keep up his form. I wouldn't disagree with that. Gerrard does frustrate me when he plays for England because he is always trying to force passes forward which simply aren't on. Its made worse when he finally completes one after a dozen attempts and the commentators blow their load about how great his vision and passing range is. Having said that, bar the odd one or two, he was pretty controlled in that aspect of his game against us so maybe he is turning a corner. Having said that he is long in the tooth now and I cant see a leopard changing its spots... or stripes... or whatever pattern they have! Having re-read our discussion we seem to be in agreement on all matters so not much more to say. I look forward to revisiting this thread when England next play. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 http://www1.skysports.com/FIFA-World-Cup-2014/news/12016/9165295/international-fa-back-roy-hodgson-to-remain-in-england-post-until-at-least-2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/9180843/Roy-Hodgson-says-Steven-Gerrard-could-extend-England-career-after-World-Cup Shaking my head at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26373116 Roy has called up 3 left full backs and only 3 centre backs (and that's including Smalling as a CB!). Defoe called up, so he must be planning on considering him for the World Cup despite the fact that he'll be playing in Toronto. Milner again, that fucker will probably retire will 150 caps and kids in 50 year's time will probably think he was brilliant. Look how many caps he got! And trophies too, he must have been great. No. No, he was shit son. I was there trust me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Cleverley will end up in that bracket with Milner by the looks of things. Ant1979 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 has ashley cole even played this season? always on the bench when i see chelsea townsend has done fuck all recently yet johnson has been excellent cleverley is still around like a shit in the crevis on your shoe pick players on form my fucking ring piece roy Matt, Ant1979 and pete0 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 has ashley cole even played this season? always on the bench when i see chelsea townsend has done fuck all recently yet johnson has been excellent cleverley is still around like a shit in the crevis on your shoe pick players on form my fucking ring piece roy Haha! Johnson definitely deserves a call up, what more can he do he's on fire. Roy obviously didn't want to upset Cole so he picks 3 LB's and only 2 decent CB's (plus Smalling). He should have used these friendlies to see a couple more young prospects I think. I mean what else does he need to know about Lampard that he doesn't already know at this stage? Should have rested him and given Johnson a chance to stake a claim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 There's a commment on the Sky Sports that points out, why is there 4 Keepers? whats the point?! Cleverley is just an absolute joke of a selection. Milner as well. Lampard shouldnt be anywhere near the team anymore either, if your his age you have to be playing week in week out which is why i dont have a problem with Gerrard. Barry should be in over Lampard every day of the week. Welbeck is just as shite but can have the odd game were you think hes quality so i can understand that as there isnt really anyone else. Smalling just isnt good enough either. Funny that how half the United team are gash but selected for England. Ant1979 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 i don't rate milner that highly but he's always a handy player to have..don't think he's as bad as anyone says Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 i don't rate milner that highly but he's always a handy player to have..don't think he's as bad as anyone says He's a handy squad player at club level because he can play RB, CM, RM, etc. But he's a jack of all trades and master of none. So at international level I just don't think that's good enough. There are better options in all of his positions. But yeah I did go over the top in my view on him haha GoodisonRoad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Shame for Barry, he said not long ago that he'll plan his holidays if he's not called up for Denmark. Ant1979 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Shame for Barry, he said not long ago that he'll plan his holidays if he's not called up for Denmark. It's unjust for Lampard to keep racking up the caps while we're crying out for a player like Barry in the midfield. I can see Gerard playing the holding role in Brazil, perhaps that's why Roy isn't looking at Barry as he's got it planned already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) It's unjust for Lampard to keep racking up the caps while we're crying out for a player like Barry in the midfield. I can see Gerard playing the holding role in Brazil, perhaps that's why Roy isn't looking at Barry as he's got it planned already. Gerrard, Lampard and Beckham have racked up lots of caps they didn't deserve, simply based on reputation. That's how England have selected players over the years. The worst thing about that is that people refer to their number of caps as a defence of their talent as players, when they shouldn't have accumulated as many as they did in the first place, and were only getting them for political reasons, as I said. That's the annoying thing. if David Beckham deserves to be England's most capped outfield player of all time, then I'm Scarlett Johansson. He has about twelve times as many caps as Matt le Tissier ffs, who was a more talented player. Edited February 27, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Cleverly is included...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Last minute addition of Sol Campbell, been installed as captain. This was following a phone call to Hodgson from Peter Herbert of the Society for Black Lawyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Cue John Barnes interviews.... pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Cue John Barnes interviews.... To be fair to Barnes he's already come out and said it was very unlikely race related in Campbell's case. If I was black I would be furious with Campbell right now, to trivialise what previous generations have been through in terms of genuine racism (Barnes included) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Cue John Barnes interviews.... seriously?! The world is afraid of its own shadow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 To be fair to Barnes he's already come out and said it was very unlikely race related in Campbell's case. If I was black I would be furious with Campbell right now, to trivialise what previous generations have been through in terms of genuine racism (Barnes included) And all in order to get his book to sell. Ant1979 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 There's a commment on the Sky Sports that points out, why is there 4 Keepers? whats the point?! Cleverley is just an absolute joke of a selection. Milner as well. Lampard shouldnt be anywhere near the team anymore either, if your his age you have to be playing week in week out which is why i dont have a problem with Gerrard. Barry should be in over Lampard every day of the week. Welbeck is just as shite but can have the odd game were you think hes quality so i can understand that as there isnt really anyone else. Smalling just isnt good enough either. Funny that how half the United team are gash but selected for England. Bold: that just not true. Tinted glasses off. This post has Grand Old Team forum all over it. Matt and MC11 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Bold: that just not true. Tinted glasses off. This post has Grand Old Team forum all over it. I really don't know why I bother replying to you anymore but here it goes. What has Lampard done this season to warrant a place in that team? He's been a bit part player for Chelsea and he is at the end of his career. Same could be said of Barry except he is a regular for us. Hodson said he would base the team on form. Explain to me how that works in the case of Lampard? Cotto throwing some shite out there without backing it up! Shock bloody horror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 And all in order to get his book to sell. Who Romey, Barnes or Campbell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I really don't know why I bother replying to you anymore but here it goes. What has Lampard done this season to warrant a place in that team? He's been a bit part player for Chelsea and he is at the end of his career. Same could be said of Barry except he is a regular for us. Hodson said he would base the team on form. Explain to me how that works in the case of Lampard? Cotto throwing some shite out there without backing it up! Shock bloody horror. Lampard has made 21 appearances in the premier league this season. Barry has made 22. Hardly a bit part player. Or is Barry one too? Look at the stats both Barry and Lampard are virtually similar all over the cards. The difference is Lampard in much more experienced at the top end of the league and international level. To say Barry should definitely be in over Lampard is silly IMO. Have you seen the shite in the centre of the park for England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Who Romey, Barnes or Campbell? Campbell. All this racism shite has come out in the newspaper serialisation of his book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Lampard has made 21 appearances in the premier league this season. Barry has made 22. Hardly a bit part player. Or is Barry one too? Look at the stats both Barry and Lampard are virtually similar all over the cards. The difference is Lampard in much more experienced at the top end of the league and international level. To say Barry should definitely be in over Lampard is silly IMO. Have you seen the shite in the centre of the park for England Lampard has made 21 appearances Of which he has started just 15. He is 35. To me, that's bit part. Barry has started 22 of his 24 appearances. He is 33. He's pretty much first name on the team sheet. Barry won the league with City and has been to WC's before so not sure how Lampard is that much more experienced "at the top end of the league" Gerrard has been great sitting infront of the back 4 for Liverpool, a job Barry does similarly for us, we'd be stupid not to rotate the 2, partnered with someone with more legs. How does Lampard fit into the team? He can't play with Gerard as we've seen for the last 10 years and he can't do what Gerrard does so he can't be used as a rotation option with him (Barry could, quite easily) and I wouldn't have him behind the striker in place of players like Rooney, Oxlade chamberlain, even Barkley. It's people like you who cram players into the team sheet because of their names or who they play for and then moan when we're still shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Lampards still better than Barry mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Lampards still better than Barry mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 He'd play every week here when fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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