England

[marcopaulo]

jags got a 5 in the paper...they must guess

[MikeO]

jags got a 5 in the paper...they must guess

 

A six on the beeb. But still seems to me he's the number one choice at the moment, only question is who will partner him (probably Cahill because he's been less shit than the alternatives).

 

Likely to be found out in Brazil though, whoever we put out.

[Oztoffee]

Not totally au fait with the minutae of Prem players apart from what I see here in Oz. But the story seems not to have changed since 1970.ie how can England managers keep picking the out-of-form or never-had-any-form players where others who are in better form but perhaps are not in fashionable teams miss out?

The list of managers like these seems endless. You could substitute any of the names of players mentioned above with those from the 70's 80's 90's etc. and keep the same text and nobody would notice any change.

This is a bit like Moyes really, only on a national scale. When will we get an England manager with balls? Someone please who will take a risk on an in form player.

I watched Newcastle Jets in the A-Leaguge at the weekend especially to watch Heskey. What a waste of pitch space. He contributed nothing to the team (or the match)and I was reminded that he was ever-present for England for more than 10 years and contributed then pretty much what he contributed against Adelaide Utd.

How in god's name did he get away with it? Because the managers were totally without gonads!

........and so it continues.

I'd like to see others' views on the subject, especially those who have any real ideas why these scenarios continue.

Thanks

Edited November 21, 2013 by Oztoffee

[Matt]

jags got a 5 in the paper...they must guess

seriously?! what did the others get? He was our best player by a mile!

[Matt]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25029937

 

 

 

 

[marcopaulo]

seriously?! what did the others get? He was our best player by a mile!

 

smalling got the same...cleverley got a 4...townsend a 7..cole a 7..sturridge got a 6? unbelievable really

[Matt]

 

smalling got the same...cleverley got a 4...townsend a 7..cole a 7..sturridge got a 6? unbelievable really

[Romey 1878]

Thought Smalling and Jags had pretty good games myself.

 

I know I'm in a tiny minority but I really don't see the fuss about Townsend. He's a typical English winger in that he can run but he doesn't have much technical ability to beat a man. If the defender is as fast as he is then he's going to be completely nullified. The creaming over him is beyond a joke.

[marcopaulo]

 

was pretty much my face reading it

[MikeO]

Walcott out of the World Cup....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25631561

[Cornish Steve]

Oh dear. I can see the England football team at the World Cup following in the footsteps of the England cricket team in the Ashes.

[Romey 1878]

Walcott out of the World Cup....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25631561

Hardly a loss. He's a headless chicken.

[Dalziel Kane]

Walcott out of the World Cup....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25631561

 

I can't stand the english soccer team. It's murder for all other nationalities when they often play especially during the summer tournaments when you can't get away from the fucking tabloid frenzy and all the players do seems to be the end all and be all of some peoples lives, so Walcott being out seems a good thing this end as I recognize him as a dangerous player who can cause problems and score chances, so regardless of whatever anyone else thinks, that's a good thing from this perspective.

 

Usually get out of the country during euro and world tournaments when the national team plays, and this year will be no different. As won't be participating in this here thread again for some considerable time, say now I don't expect the english to win in brazil this year, but it's not always the best world team that proves eventual winners. I didn't really catch the group draw - Italy was one of the other sides, but didn't see past that. Just hope they get eliminated as soon as possible, and if in the group stages, that would be ideal.

 

Not trying to incite hostilities but just can't abide the national team when they play. Barkley, Jagielka, Baines etc, all for them doing well for Everton Football Club but can't recognize international duties. Barkley has been doing so well for this club that Hodgson will surely take him to Brazil this year and he's a player you know can cause problems, but only concentrating on his endeavors at domestic level.

 

Rooney hasn't done well at intenational level since Euro 2004, often disappoints, Hart is a good goalkeeper though. I don't know who the other back-up goalkeepers will be. Solid defense, indifferent midfield, but forward positions would seem a concern. Hodgson wasnt the right appointment to begin with, should have maybe given Redknapp a chance, and after struggling against opposition such as Chile, Scotland and the Republic of Ireland in recent games, the english shouldnt really be a threat this summer, but once again, Walcott's omission will be evident when they line-up.

 

Couldn't even get worked up over how the United States may do this summer - although it's maybe something to do with realizing we've got no chance of winning. - The problem with the english as far as I can recall, is the bigger the expectations, the harder the fall when the team doesn't perform or a setback occurs. Most of the blame would seem to lie with the fucking media in this country blowing things out of all proportion or filling peoples heads with grand beliefs or what to expect - that more often than not, come to nothing

 

Expect nothing too dissimilar this time around.

[Cornish Steve]

Usually get out of the country during euro and world tournaments when the national team plays, and this year will be no different.

 

So you're going to Brazil to watch England play?

[Matt]

Hardly a loss. He's a headless chicken.

harsh, I rate him quite highly when he's played in the centre

[Romey 1878]

harsh, I rate him quite highly when he's played in the centre

That happens how often? He'd never have played up front for us at the WC anyway.

 

I do agree though; he's better as a striker but as a winger he's just a typical English wide man - fucking useless.

[Bailey]

He is probably the best useless English wide man we have though! Easily the best finisher too!

[Lowensda]

He is probably the best useless English wide man we have though! Easily the best finisher too!

 

We're really lacking in that department then aha.

 

But seriously, he's always a threat for England for his pace. That's the only outlay we've ever really relied on.

 

I think as a team, we'll struggle anyway, you just CAN'T win anything with Cleverly starting games. Not gonna happen.

 

Be really interested to see what team we'll play...

[Lowensda]

Reading about all the speculation regarding who will go the world cup etc, what are people's honest thoughts on who we (England) should play during the tournament?

 

A lot of absentees already, so what do you think (or want) the lineup to be?

 

It's been really hard to pick actually, based on injuries and people not being in form (Hart).

 

But this may be the best I could think of. England are far too many similar players...and some that I've included, I don't necessarily rate but have included because I know they'll go.

 

Hart

Walker - Jagielka - Caulker - Baines

Barry - Gerrard

Barkley

Lennon - Rooney - Sturridge

Squad includes: (GK x 3, DF x 7, MID x 8, ST x 4)

Foster (GK), Ruddy (GK)

Cahill (CB), Smalling (CB/RB),Shaw (LB)

Lallana (LM/CAM), Wilshire (CM), Lampard (RM), Henderson (CM/CDM), Carrick (CM/CDM)

Townsend (LW/RW), Welbeck (ST)

Other candidates I would consider but don't think they should (yet) based on form/injury/experience;

Forster

Chambers, Jones, Cole, Gibbs, Lescott

Morrison, Ox, Milner, Gayle, Delph

Berahino, Defoe

All in all, I think as a nation, we should be a little worried but for me, I'd say f*ck it and start a clean slate with young lads and give them a go. We're not expected to win it, so just throw them in and see how they do! Wish Schneiderlin was available for selection, he'd be one of the 'missing' pieces imo.

 

Hart

Walker - Jagielka - Caulker - Shaw

Schneiderlin

Morrison - Barkley - Wilshire

Rooney - Sturridge

Should tick all the boxes.

[Cornish Steve]

Seriously, I would add Barry and Stones into the mix.

[marcopaulo]

far too early for stones i'd say

[Lowensda]

far too early for stones i'd say

 

Agreed. I would like it but I doubt he's ready.

 

I've picked players who have progressed through the youth England teams (if they're classed as youngsters) with considerable experience.

 

Be interesting to see, none the less. Whether Hodgson goes 'new skool' (doubt it, he's a dinosaur aged coach) or reliable/dependable (Milner, Lampard, Gerrard midfield 3).

[marcopaulo]

maybe the next euros for stones? if not i'm certain the next world cup...jones and smalling don't seem to be progressing the way people thought they would

[Cornish Steve]

far too early for stones i'd say

 

Well, I had to eat my words about Barkley. I thought he needed more time to prove that his performances weren't just a flash in the pan. He still has a lot to learn. But, England are now so poor and in such dire need, why not bring along a couple of useful young players? The experience would prepare Stones for an England future.

[Bailey]

I think that after this WC there will be a big change but I cant see anything changing before that.

 

My team at the moment would look something like this:

 

Hart

? Jags Cahill Baines

Barry Gerrard

Lallana Barkley Townsend

Rooney

 

For me, Rooney should stop trying to be a playmaker and just concentrate on scoring. Of course he can do more than that and he will do but he needs to focus on working defenders and stop dropping too deep. With the 3 attacking players behind him he shouldnt struggle for chances.

 

Whilst im not a massive fan of Townsend I think we need someone with a little directness. If we need someone to keep hold of the ball we can bring Wilshere in instead.

 

Our biggest problems are at the back. Caulker might not be a bad shout as I liked him at Spurs but havent seen much of him since he moved. Im not convinced by the rest but it would be between Cahill & Smalling. We dont have a good RB and they are all similar. Maybe Walker with his pace would get the nod.

[marcopaulo]

 

Well, I had to eat my words about Barkley. I thought he needed more time to prove that his performances weren't just a flash in the pan. He still has a lot to learn. But, England are now so poor and in such dire need, why not bring along a couple of useful young players? The experience would prepare Stones for an England future.

 

barkley is excelling in a position that england have no real options it seems any more...cb's i think we're ok for at the moment

[Guest Nikica]

I think that after this WC there will be a big change but I cant see anything changing before that.

 

My team at the moment would look something like this:

 

Hart

? Jags Cahill Baines

Barry Gerrard

Lallana Barkley Townsend

Rooney

 

For me, Rooney should stop trying to be a playmaker and just concentrate on scoring. Of course he can do more than that and he will do but he needs to focus on working defenders and stop dropping too deep. With the 3 attacking players behind him he shouldnt struggle for chances.

 

Whilst im not a massive fan of Townsend I think we need someone with a little directness. If we need someone to keep hold of the ball we can bring Wilshere in instead.

 

Our biggest problems are at the back. Caulker might not be a bad shout as I liked him at Spurs but havent seen much of him since he moved. Im not convinced by the rest but it would be between Cahill & Smalling. We dont have a good RB and they are all similar. Maybe Walker with his pace would get the nod.

 

That's about the best. I'd switch Lallana to the left and put Lennon wide right for the directness. I rate Lennon far more highly than Townsend. He's no world beater or anything but he's about the best traditional speedster winger England have, especially with Walcott injured.

 

Walker is rubbish so RB is indeed a concern. What about Clyne at Soton? Saying that Chambers has been playing over him recently. Or how about play one of Shaw or Baines at RB? Not ideal but maybe a more talented LB at RB is better than an average or rubbish natural RB? A lot of these teams play with inverted wingers who come inside too so Baines or Shaw would be tackling with their strong foot. Admittedly it is a problem when going forward. I don't generally advocate playing people out of position but the options at RB are limited as you say.

 

I suppose people might say you have to make room to accommodate Sturridge too. Sturridge, Wilshere and Shaw could all come in for Townsend, Barkley and RB respectively, in your line-up.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Nikica

[Bailey]

 

That's about the best. I'd switch Lallana to the left and put Lennon wide right for the directness. I rate Lennon far more highly than Townsend. He's no world beater or anything but he's about the best traditional speedster winger England have, especially with Walcott injured.

 

Walker is rubbish so RB is indeed a concern. What about Clyne at Soton? Saying that Chambers has been playing over him recently. Or how about play one of Shaw or Baines at RB? Not ideal but maybe a more talented LB at RB is better than an average or rubbish natural RB? A lot of these teams play with inverted wingers who come inside too so Baines or Shaw would be tackling with their strong foot. Admittedly it is a problem when going forward. I don't generally advocate playing people out of position but the options at RB are limited as you say.

 

I suppose people might say you have to make room to accommodate Sturridge too. Sturridge, Wilshere and Shaw could all come in for Townsend, Barkley and RB respectively, in your line-up.

 

Yeh I like Clyne and have done for a while and Chambers also impressed me when we played against them before Christmas. Its an interesting idea about the LB's playing on the right given the lack of strength. What I would say is that its much more difficult for FB's to switch sides like wingers can because they are used to having a player on a certain side of them, and adjusting their position accordingly. Wingers dont really have that responsibility but both Shaw and Baines are intelligent players and I'm sure it wouldnt take an awful lot of getting used to.

 

I have never really been a fan of accomodating players. For me, the system is more important that the individuals and trying to force a player into the team causes inbalance and I particularly despise strikers playing wide. Very few strikers in world football are capable of filling that role and performing up to their best and Sturridge, Rooney and especially Welbeck arent in that league. I wouldnt disagree with Sturridge as the main striker and Rooney playing as an advanced midfielder but given his comments about Fergie playing in that position Im not sure whether you will see the best of him there. We could go 4-4-2 but I dont think that will suit the rest of the team. A lot gets made of Hodgson and his management ability (or lack of it) but I dont envy his position given his limited options.

[Guest Nikica]

 

Yeh I like Clyne and have done for a while and Chambers also impressed me when we played against them before Christmas. Its an interesting idea about the LB's playing on the right given the lack of strength. What I would say is that its much more difficult for FB's to switch sides like wingers can because they are used to having a player on a certain side of them, and adjusting their position accordingly. Wingers dont really have that responsibility but both Shaw and Baines are intelligent players and I'm sure it wouldnt take an awful lot of getting used to.

 

I have never really been a fan of accomodating players. For me, the system is more important that the individuals and trying to force a player into the team causes inbalance and I particularly despise strikers playing wide. Very few strikers in world football are capable of filling that role and performing up to their best and Sturridge, Rooney and especially Welbeck arent in that league. I wouldnt disagree with Sturridge as the main striker and Rooney playing as an advanced midfielder but given his comments about Fergie playing in that position Im not sure whether you will see the best of him there. We could go 4-4-2 but I dont think that will suit the rest of the team. A lot gets made of Hodgson and his management ability (or lack of it) but I dont envy his position given his limited options.

 

Clyne and Chambers both look pretty talented - the latter plays beyond his years I think. You're right about wingers finding it easier to switch sides than FBs (for the reasons you cite as well as the fact that wingers come in on their strong foot these days), but Azpilicueta at Chelsea, Javier Zanetti and Phillip Lahm have all proved it can be done - extremely high standard of player granted, but it shows it is possible. I think either Shaw or Baines could fulfil the role - they both appear to be smart players as you say.

 

Yeah, I was really just brainstorming with Sturridge. I don't like accomodating players either and believe the system is paramount (although rare exceptions can be made for precocious players e.g. Maradona, Messi etc, but they have the system moulded to suit them anyway for the most part). Sturridge hasn't exactly pulled up any trees for England. My thinking was that 'play the players in form' is often equally as valid as 'play the best players to suit a system' - in that respect if Sturridge is still on fire come June it would be worth trying to find a place for him. I guess it's between he and Rooney though and on talent and reputation he isn't getting in in front of Wayne so debating it is futile.

 

I forgot guys like Johnson and Johnson has hit some form recently and he can play wide right and come inside on his left - he's a left footed pure winger which England don't have too many of (save Townsend, and I prefer Johnson really as he's a more tricky dribbler who can get past people rather than run with his head down). Man City fans always called him a highlights player but it would be a different option to have.

 

It's strange to think that Wilshere may well not start in Brazil. For so long he was regarded as English football's great hope but injuries have certainly curtailed his career (as well as his own attitude problems). I know it's hard for you to be objective about this, but do you think Wilshere or Barkley is more talented?

Edited February 5, 2014 by Nikica

[Bailey]

 

Clyne and Chambers both look pretty talented - the latter plays beyond his years I think. You're right about wingers finding it easier to switch sides than FBs (for the reasons you cite as well as the fact that wingers come in on their strong foot these days), but Azpilicueta at Chelsea, Javier Zanetti and Phillip Lahm have all proved it can be done - extremely high standard of player granted, but it shows it is possible. I think either Shaw or Baines could fulfil the role - they both appear to be smart players as you say.

 

Yeah, I was really just brainstorming with Sturridge. I don't like accomodating players either and believe the system is paramount (although rare exceptions can be made for precocious players e.g. Maradona, Messi etc, but they have the system moulded to suit them anyway for the most part). Sturridge hasn't exactly pulled up any trees for Liverpool. My thinking was that 'play the players in form' is often equally as valid as 'play the best players to suit a system' - in that respect if Sturridge is still on fire come June it would be worth trying to find a place for him. I guess it's between he and Rooney though and on talent and reputation he isn't getting in in front of Wayne so debating it is futile.

 

I forgot guys like Johnson and Johnson has hit some form recently and he can play wide right and come inside on his left - he's a left footed pure winger which England don't have too many of (save Townsend, and I prefer Johnson really as he's a more tricky dribbler who can get past people rather than run with his head down). Man City fans always called him a highlights player but it would be a different option to have.

 

It's strange to think that Wilshere may well not start in Brazil. For so long he was regarded as English football's great hope but injuries have certainly curtailed his career (as well as his own attitude problems). I know it's hard for you to be objective about this, but do you think Wilshere or Barkley is more talented?

 

Yeh valid points.

 

When you look towards the end of the season, and presuming both strikers are fit, Sturridge could end up being the main striker. Rooney started well under Moyes but with RVP fit and Mata in the team as well his place is no longer guarenteed and if they are out of the hunt for a CL place you can see him sulking, potentially causing disruption and looking to leave. If Rooney isnt enjoying himself off the field then it will show on the field. Purely speculation of course, they could (theoretically) win every game from now til the end of the season and be in with a shot of the title.

 

I'm not sure what to make of Johnson on the whole. I havent seen an awful lot of him recently but I watched him against Utd in the League Cup and I thought he was really poor. Gave the ball away lots, poor final ball, poor strikes on goal and then he topped it by missing his penalty. His dribbling was good mind you and he beat his man on occasions but it was Buttner and when Evra came on he was kept pretty quiet. Its a weak pool of wingers though.

 

That's a hard one. Wilshere and Barkley probably have around the same level of potential and whereas Wilshere burst onto the scene as a 16yo and rapidly improved he has now plateaued mainly as a result of injuries and also his attitude. Barkley on the other hand was held back by Moyes/injuries and he has now burst onto the scene and looks to have the world at his feet. At this stage, Wilshere is the more accomplished player in terms of all round ability but Barkley's talent and also the way he plays can lead to more game changing moments than Wilshere generally, and I think you can see Barkley maturing with every game (certainly before his recent injury).

 

What I would say is that If England set up with Gerrard, Wilshere and Barkley there wouldnt be too many more central midfields in the WC (away from the very best teams) with that quality and variation, especially when they should theoretically work well together and suit each others style of play.