Arouna Kone

[Blue 250]

 

Your statement in itself shows how small minded you are and not me.

 

Yes of course, it's always everyone else who is wrong and small minded, never you .

 

After all it was you who said.

 

Lukaku was shit and Kone was a worthy replacement.

 

I have my doubts that Lukaku will ever achieve his full potential whilst at Everton under Martinez, watching some of the usual snail pace attack and poor final ball against 10 man Burnley, so he may well never completely ram your words down your throat (unfortunetely that goes for any Everton striker including Kone).

 

Kone may score next week and Lukaku miss an open goal, that wont change the fundemental point.

 

Man up for fucks sake, like I've said, you only got on the Kone band wagon to try and stick the knife into Lukaku.

 

Go and take a look back at the Lukaku thread......it's embarassing.

 

I'm finished on this one it's as pointless as said Lukaku one.

 

For me I'd take a Tim Howard clearence as the winning goal..........or even one of YOUR many goals from inside your own half !

 

MMMmmm......strong smell of Bullshit with that one (SORRY MATT)

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Oh FFS Dunc, for a period it seems we had an army of fans quite adept at creating JPEGS on Photoshop with Rom celebrating a goal with dreadlocks flowing and ridiculously flawed stats putting his ahead of aguero, Rooney, neymar, ronaldo and messi.

 

I had red shite fans taking the piss out of them. In short we had grown men behaving like giddy teenagers over a player who despite showing good ability in the box looked like a championship player in all other facets of the game.

 

Ahh but onto Kone, before he kicked a ball he like McCarthy was from Wigan and therefore not good enough and overpriced.

 

It's ok for us to get £6m for a very unreliable, temperamental player like Anichebe but they had no right to charge £6m for a player who scored 13 prem goals for a relegated team?!

 

Rom has supposedly had a solid season but he has 8 premier league goals.

 

Let's get some perspective on this, Rom is not as good as many wish he is (yet), and Kone is not as bad as many think their premature judgement think warrants their "I told you so" stance.

 

Kone reminds me of Marcus Bent, not the best player by a long stretch, good athlete who can physically impose himself on defences but needs confidence and a run of games. Finishing for him is "hitting it at goal" rather than picking a spot. Some strikers get a good return doing that when their confidence is up.

 

I would rather have Anichebe if Im honest

[StevO]

When Kone gets on the ball it almost seems inevitable that play will break down, it's just when. He has some ability, yesterday he got through three defenders with the ball, very good skill to get out if there with the ball. Then plays it five yards to a Burnley player. I've said before, when he gets the ball in the box he just doesn't know what to do next. I don't know if it's no composure, or no confidence, or just a lack of ability. Whatever it is, the lad just isn't good enough. He might have been ok before his last injury, but the lad has had two (that I know of) very serious injuries, maybe he can't get over them. There has been times in the last few games where I thought our players have gone to play the ball his way and then hesitated, that's been a worry for me. I may be wrong, but that's how it's looked from my seat, Barkley a couple of times in second half yesterday and Southampton, head up, foot pulled back, then stopped. Again, I may be wrong but looking at his body language at the time it's what I saw.

 

if someone is willing to take him, just release him from his contract to save the wages next year and write off the loss.

 

I'm not getting involved in the arguments either, I know what I see when he's on the pitch, it's not good enough for me.

[Hafnia]

I'm not forgetting it. Apparently my clear argument wasn't that clear - it doesn't have any impact on the players ability. So it is irrelevant to the debate. How many fucking times?!

 

Yes, 6m for Koné and Alcaraz - a 1 in 20 striker, both sick notes vs a loan of player who actually scored goals, won us games... Need I continue?!

 

You are the only person who thinks you're balanced, putting it in caps doesn't make it so. Whether thats down to you being deluded, immensely arrogant or plain stubborn I can never tell. I assume the latter because it's easier to accept. Why is your critique not balanced? I've already explained. Stats are provided, you ignore them. Then use your own to prove your theory - the hypocrisy, nevermind the unbalanced nature of the argument, is staggering. Then you try to use individual examples to counter balance a deluge of negativity and dismissal in arguments. Point and case - you are quoting 1 thread from all season to prove that because a player had a poor game, you're balanced?! Jesus Christ...

 

You are blind in your criticism and are never going to accept any other input. I don't even know why I'm bothering. Another case and point - 10 yard pass to a team mate, Koné seems incapable of it. The amount of times he loses possession is embarrassing. But again, you made him out to be more than he is and you cannot accept that you're wrong, even when its there on the field. Instead, you're getting your little digs in at our promising striker, who is improving, who is scoring goals, who is proving you wrong. It's just sad.

Getting a bit stroppy aren't we? Pipe down and read the points.

 

Have I said anywhere that kone is a world beater??? Nope. Just like I've never said Rom is a yard dog.

 

Amazing isn't it. This place is turning into grand old team. Cheese on toast, certain players defended, others slated.

 

Sorry for being critical of Rom, it doesn't mean I hate him, I just don't quite see this superstar that you do. He's good, nothing great.

[Blue 250]

 

Sorry for being critical of Rom, it doesn't mean I hate him, I just don't quite see this superstar that you do. He's good, nothing great.

 

Show us one post where Matt, or any other member has called Lukaku ' a superstar' or even 'great'.

 

That's just ' one ' of your problems, telling people what they think and what they see !

 

Fucking incredible !

[Matt]

Getting a bit stroppy aren't we? Pipe down and read the points.

Have I said anywhere that kone is a world beater??? Nope. Just like I've never said Rom is a yard dog.

Amazing isn't it. This place is turning into grand old team. Cheese on toast, certain players defended, others slated.

Sorry for being critical of Rom, it doesn't mean I hate him, I just don't quite see this superstar that you do. He's good, nothing great.

Did I say you said he was a world beater?! I said we were wrong because he's not even a good player. I can admit it, you quite clearly cannot.

 

Certain players slated like Lukaku (largely without backing up with facts, because you don't have them) and certain players defended like Kone (ignoring the facts that are proving you and I wrong).

 

Honest to God, do you not see your hypocrisy when you make statements like that?

[StevO]

Now let's get to the point here Haf.

 

Matt asked can you admit you were wrong about Kone, because he himself was wrong.

 

So, can you admit you were wrong about him?

 

That's all he's asking really.

[Matt]

Now let's get to the point here Haf.

Matt asked can you admit you were wrong about Kone, because he himself was wrong.

So, can you admit you were wrong about him?

That's all he's asking really.

Holy shit, I was wondering if I was writing in Chinese! Someone can see the question

[Hafnia]

What have I said about Kone that I need to admit I'm wrong about ??? For fucks sake, the elitism on here is fucking awful at times.

 

You would never have thought we built a title winning team on battered has beens and rejects. From the get go I felt impelled to defeng kone, because the shit he got was awful. I've seen it so many times with other players, mcgeady, naismith, alacaraz, and more recently Lennon. People turning their noses up at players without even seeing them.

 

Look at the John Stones thread ffs underwhelmed...

 

Kobe has had 2 bad games on the bounce been a bad buy.. . What do you want? It's big of you Matt to make arouna your sacrificial lamb at the honour of lukaku.

 

I'll be as balanced as I can here, stop behaving like a pompous sod. Lukaku for all his supposed superiority should be above question, he's a bang average footballer who scores goals. He's at risk of being an overindulged overpriced player.

 

I hope he isn't, we haven't the money to throw away, you seem to have your feet up smoking a cigar saying "I told you so" I'm still not convinced. Leave it at that.

[Matt]

What have I said about Kone that I need to admit I'm wrong about ??? For fucks sake, the elitism on here is fucking awful at times.

You would never have thought we built a title winning team on battered has beens and rejects. From the get go I felt impelled to defeng kone, because the shit he got was awful. I've seen it so many times with other players, mcgeady, naismith, alacaraz, and more recently Lennon. People turning their noses up at players without even seeing them.

Look at the John Stones thread ffs underwhelmed...

Kobe has had 2 bad games on the bounce been a bad buy.. . What do you want? It's big of you Matt to make arouna your sacrificial lamb at the honour of lukaku.

I'll be as balanced as I can here, stop behaving like a pompous sod. Lukaku for all his supposed superiority should be above question, he's a bang average footballer who scores goals. He's at risk of being an overindulged overpriced player.

I hope he isn't, we haven't the money to throw away, you seem to have your feet up smoking a cigar saying "I told you so" I'm still not convinced. Leave it at that.

amazing...

[Hafnia]

amazing...

You see this is it...

You all think I rate or want kone to do better than lukaku. It would help make a point if he did, do I think he's better??? As a general target man yeah I do.

.if I managed Everton who would I pick? Lukaku every time.

 

You get caught up in this hype bull shit, and really that is what it is.

 

Lukaku should be a top top footballer but he isn't. Will he be? Maybe.

 

There is so much for him to improve on but a hat trick against young boys and a decent game against man city throws you off the real analysis. He has as many poor games as he does good, maybe more.

 

The top and bottom of it is this, Mourinho sold him. Strikers are at a premium, a real premium. Man United spent a fortune to loan falcao, proper forwards do not get sold. He was sold.

 

Do I think mourinho regrets his decision??? No. Not in the slightest.

 

Does that mean Rom will be a waste of money? No. If he does improve then great, if he doesn't then for me 15 goals then 8+ whatever he gets till end of season may be the level he stays at.

[EFC-Paul]

I thought he'd come in and do a decent job in all honesty especially after seeing him cause a few sides especially us problems when he was at Wigan but to no avail

 

Six million is alot of money in hindsight for so very little I do think we could recoup half of that or hope Mr Magoo is a manager these days

 

It just hasn't worked out for either party whether that's down to ability injuries system etc it's safe to say he has to be surplus come the transfer window

 

That's my polite way of saying he's been dogshit

Edited April 19, 2015 by EFC-Paul

[Matt]

You see this is it...

You all think I rate or want kone to do better than lukaku. It would help make a point if he did, do I think he's better??? As a general target man yeah I do.

.if I managed Everton who would I pick? Lukaku every time.

 

You get caught up in this hype bull shit, and really that is what it is.

 

Lukaku should be a top top footballer but he isn't. Will he be? Maybe.

 

There is so much for him to improve on but a hat trick against young boys and a decent game against man city throws you off the real analysis. He has as many poor games as he does good, maybe more.

 

The top and bottom of it is this, Mourinho sold him. Strikers are at a premium, a real premium. Man United spent a fortune to loan falcao, proper forwards do not get sold. He was sold.

 

Do I think mourinho regrets his decision??? No. Not in the slightest.

 

Does that mean Rom will be a waste of money? No. If he does improve then great, if he doesn't then for me 15 goals then 8+ whatever he gets till end of season may be the level he stays at.

You're completely missing the point. At no point have I tried to make Kone a sacrificial goat. I, along with you, defended him saying give him a chance. He's had his chances and been shite. Awful. For all the complaints you had about Lukaku, he has those flaws and he's worse at them.

 

You clearly can't say it, I'm on my phone and won't go into the issue of price (which you've ignored my retort, again)

 

I'm not hung up on the hype; I've seen an incredibly talented lad, a proven goalscorer being lambasted and made to be a scape goat whilst the team was shite, who was also poor (but scores). You are not blinded by hate, that's unfair (although it comes across that way often), but you're blinded by the price tag, which has nothing to do with the player!!!! Your praise of him is so little it's practically nonexistent.

 

Also, another insane statement - real forwards don't get sold?! So I guess Suarez paid his own transfer fee, Diego Costa too? Bony must've found some cash in January to ship himself to Manchester. Unless they're not real strikers... Just ridiculous. I await the "yeah, but...."

[c1982]

For fucks sake, the elitism on here is fucking awful at times.

 

 

I think you need to look back at some of your posts before you make statements like this. You may not mean to but you come across very cock-sure... borderline elitest if you like. I'm not saying this is a bad thing; if you can't blow your own trumpet then who's can you blow? Just not to my liking.

[MikeO]

I think you need to look back at some of your posts before you make statements like this. You may not mean to but you come across very cock-sure... borderline elitest if you like. I'm not saying this is a bad thing; if you can't blow your own trumpet then who's can you blow? Just not to my liking.

 

In fairness c I think haf was talking about players being treated as elite rather than TT members, that's how I read it anyway .

[Blue 250]

You see this is it...

You all think I rate or want kone to do better than lukaku. It would help make a point if he did, do I think he's better??? As a general target man yeah I do.

.if I managed Everton who would I pick? Lukaku every time.

 

You get caught up in this hype bull shit, and really that is what it is.

 

Lukaku should be a top top footballer but he isn't. Will he be? Maybe.

 

There is so much for him to improve on but a hat trick against young boys and a decent game against man city throws you off the real analysis. He has as many poor games as he does good, maybe more.

 

The top and bottom of it is this, Mourinho sold him. Strikers are at a premium, a real premium. Man United spent a fortune to loan falcao, proper forwards do not get sold. He was sold.

 

Do I think mourinho regrets his decision??? No. Not in the slightest.

 

Does that mean Rom will be a waste of money? No. If he does improve then great, if he doesn't then for me 15 goals then 8+ whatever he gets till end of season may be the level he stays at.

 

Hang on this 'is' the Kone thread isn't it ?

 

You mentioned Kone once.....and Lukaku four times.The 'stats' tell me you obsessed with Lukaku .

[StevO]

So you can't admit you were wrong? And you still think Kone is a good player? Wow! You've not half changed since Moyes left.

[Hafnia]

Oh fuck off Steve, expect better from you, or do I?. Have I said Kone is a good player? Seriously I'm not trying to do a number on you you boys but I'm shocked at what is becoming apparent on the kone thread.

 

The multi million superstar who has taken some real shit and deservedly so has had his arse handed to him by those brave enough to say "that's shit", he's 21 he will learn how to control a ball in 4 years time, blah blah fuckin blah.

 

Lukaku gets injured, all eyes on kone.... He scores nothing, we are unbeaten in 5, he doesn't blast any over the bar from 6 yards (Leicester)

 

Maybe next year we can sign a truly shite player to put Rom in the modern day echelons of Dixie Dean

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Haf , Kone being shite has nothing to do with Lukaku

 

The comparisons are drawn because of your hypocrisy in criticising Rom at every opportunity yet refusing to have a bad word said against Kone

[Hafnia]

I haven't refused to have a bad word against Kone, I have objected to the prejudgedment of him.

 

Only till recently have we been able to see what he's all about. But half of you super scouts slate him for similar things to what Rom could be slated for.

 

I'll ask you this, why is it still going on? Sell kone for £2m, release him, get someone else, it's fine by me no skin off my nose. He's not some horse I've backed. Just another player.

 

Far too much emotive attachment to Rom. It's blurred judgement to the point predictions are being made to how great he will be.... For me it's not the case. That's all.

 

No hypocrisy, just a level judgement. You just can't see it.

[Matt]

Oh fuck off Steve, expect better from you, or do I?. Have I said Kone is a good player? Seriously I'm not trying to do a number on you you boys but I'm shocked at what is becoming apparent on the kone thread.

 

The multi million superstar who has taken some real shit and deservedly so has had his arse handed to him by those brave enough to say "that's shit", he's 21 he will learn how to control a ball in 4 years time, blah blah fuckin blah.

 

Lukaku gets injured, all eyes on kone.... He scores nothing, we are unbeaten in 5, he doesn't blast any over the bar from 6 yards (Leicester)

 

Maybe next year we can sign a truly shite player to put Rom in the modern day echelons of Dixie Dean

First off, I'm going to apologise for getting carried away. It's been building up and up for a long time and the last few weeks has seen my patience practically disappear. However, I stand by what I've said, just maybe not how I said it.

 

As for us winning with Lukaku injured, I see what you mean about stats not reflecting reality when shared in a particular way. In my opinion, we've on in spite of Kone playing, he has been that bad. All the criticism of Lukakus control, hold up play, passing etc can be attributed to Kone too.

 

Dunc has summed up the whole point beautifully so I will leave it there.

[Hafnia]

To wrap up this sorry saga:-

 

Is Kone a good player? Not really, but he's not that bad either

Is he a waste of £6m? as it stands yes.

If he played for us like he did for Wigan and didn't get injured - would £6m be money well spent? - Yes.

Was he judged before given a fair chance? Yes

Should we get rid? Yes

[Romey 1878]

To wrap up this sorry saga:-

 

Is Kone a good player? Not really, but he's not that bad either

Is he a waste of £6m? as it stands yes.

If he played for us like he did for Wigan and didn't get injured - would £6m be money well spent? - Yes.

Was he judged before given a fair chance? Yes

Should we get rid? Yes

 

This whole judging a player before being given a fair chance is just bollocks. Every fan does that with every signing - some judge them positively (like you in this case), and some judge them negatively (like myself and others did with this signing). That's the way football fans are. Sometimes the ones who judged positively will get it wrong and then the ones who judged negatively will be wrong on other occasions.

 

Judging a player before they've played for your club isn't something to bring into an argument over that player, IMO, it's just the natural way of things. Sometimes you win some, sometimes you're left looking like a complete melon.

[Hafnia]

 

This whole judging a player before being given a fair chance is just bollocks. Every fan does that with every signing - some judge them positively (like you in this case), and some judge them negatively (like myself and others did with this signing). That's the way football fans are. Sometimes the ones who judged positively will get it wrong and then the ones who judged negatively will be wrong on other occasions.

 

Judging a player before they've played for your club isn't something to bring into an argument over that player, IMO, it's just the natural way of things. Sometimes you win some, sometimes you're left looking like a complete melon.

 

This is true, my opinion is this - "Good players don't just become bad" - they can get old, lose their legs, get a career ending injury.

 

Invariably confidence plays a massive part - pending the fact that they have the keys skills required.

 

My thoughts on Kone before coming to Everton were that he was a very athletic, strong, "forward" - who would create opportunities by work rate and linking up etc and score the odd goal. Never a top rate forward but more of a strong version of Dirk Kuyt. His perfromances against us gave me that impression.

 

It hasn't worked out, simple as that.

[StevO]

Haf, you may expect better from me. I expect better from you. I've agreed with you on many things over the years. One of which has been the real need for a goal scorer, now we have one. But you have made out alone to be a decent player and he just isn't. It's not a coincidence that everyone on this thread and the Lukaku thread have disagreed with you and seem perplexed by your views on both players. You can tell me to fuck off all you like, but you've been stubborn in the past, but when it comes to these two players you've gone to another level.

 

Glad to see you've made sense now though.

Edited April 20, 2015 by StevO

[Hafnia]

Haf, you may expect better from me. I expect better from you. I've agreed with you on many things over the years. One of which has been the real need for a goal scorer, now we have one. But you have made out alone to be a decent player and he just isn't. It's not a coincidence that everyone on this thread and the Lukaku thread have disagreed with you and seem perplexed by your views on both players. You can tell me to fuck off all you like, but you've been stubborn in the past, but when it comes to these two players you've gone to another level.

 

Glad to see you've made sense now though.

Apologies about the post by the way, it didn't read in the right tone in which it was intended. More of an exasperated tone as opposed to insult was the intent.

 

That aside I rate Lukaku in a bracket that is kinda in and around Welbeck, different skill sets but all in all not a bad bracket to be in.

 

I just don't rate him as highly as others. I may do, right now I don't.

[StevO]

One day everyone on the board will agree, and the Internet will explode.

[Hafnia]

One day everyone on the board will agree, and the Internet will explode.

 

Nah, not if i've got anything to do with it!

 

Without disagreement we would still think the world was flat.

[pete0]

Said it at the time, would rather have kept big Vic. hoped to be surprised by Kone, but similar to what hafnia said he's a limited striker like bent. Not got the pace, key quality would be strength but limited all the same. Simply not good enough.

[johnh]

I think we have to look on the positive side. Kone might be excellent in training, something the fans never see. He might be a big help putting the cones out and giving the bibs out.