Board/Owners Related Stuff

[markjazzbassist]

I get paid next Friday maybe I'll put in a bid and see if they accept. Bills hard up for money. We'll see what he thinks of the American dollar

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Yeah perfect Howard, let's continue the business model of asset stripping and just hope that one day we don't get relegated.

 

Because let's be honest we could get a faceless Russian who doesn't understand the history of Everton... But let's be honest in another 20 years of this bullshit our history will diluted by 40 years of fuck all. "Oh wait, we got top 4 and had a final". I'd take a faceless Russian oversomeone who has more faces than the town hall clock.

 

BTW Dunc, I'm not tied to any fan movements, I barely have time to watch a game these days.

 

Sharing the same opinions like many more fans. You can't even accept all the shite that kenwright and his merry band of men have lumbered us with.

 

Remove the tv money from the equation and our club has been handled fuckin disgracefully.

 

Keep cryin into your cornflakes every time we sell a top player and question not the reason why we have to do this shit. Of course it's probably down to the kopite Johnson. Nothing to do with the bullshitter and his continued fuck ups.

 

Shall I list them chronologically for you? Would that make it easier? Cos it's absolutely shocking. Then again how can people who can look no further than their nose see this when Sir Phillip Greens media chums get their protective wheels in motion.

 

 

Once again you whine about the asset stripping yet you never answer what you think he should have done instead

 

Would you prefer it if we still had Bellefield and the other assets but had got relegated and now been playing in Division 2?

You're like a broken record you just keep regurgitating the same old shite and can never be drawn on any questions put to you

 

We all agree the stadium saga's have been monumental fuck ups and we all agree that there have been plenty more things that the club can be held accountable to so in fact yes I can " accept all the shite that kenwright and his merry band of men have lumbered us with"

 

The difference is I can see both sides of the coin, you go on about balanced arguments yet you stick your head up you're arse when it comes to Johnson and cant see whats right in front of you

 

And for the record I wasn't referring to you sharing the same opinions as SOS, more so the behavioural tendencies

[Hafnia]

1. I agree the Kings Dock would've been a revolutionized us, but that statement for someone who doesn't hate BK, is so over dramatic and over exaggerated, its embarrassing.

 

2. NTL - he was lied to, he was naive. So I agree, it was silly but again you make a stupid statement that "the likes of Stoke..." - Sorry, remind me what Stoke have won? What have they averaged over the last 20 years in the league? Not even close. The only thing they're better than at us is wasting money.

 

3. Can't really argue, but not 100% convinced on the debate

 

4. "We want a new stadium!", "we're looking at a new stadium in Kirkby", "Why are you wasting money looking into a new stadium! We want a new stadium!".... Bizarre....

 

1. How is it over dramatic? We had LCC helping us - reletively the stadium was a pittance compared to the money it would generate - every single fan could see this. Bill knew this but ultimately the trade off was "let Gregg takeover and see Everton in a strong position" or "lie and tell the board that the fortress fund is going to give cash to the club to operate and the money is ring fenced"

 

He created the fortress fund as a bare faced lie in order to gain control and not see Gregg in control. The only counter to this argument is "what is gregg wasnt the right man blah blah blah - well we will never know, all we know is that Kenwright lied about getting money which was not there". It fell through and we instead pursued a non starter in Kirby wasting millions in consulting fees.

 

 

2. NTL - he was lied to? He should be able to spot one of those a mile off. The contract wasn't signed, the money wasn't in the bank but he goes and authorises £19m to be spent. Lied to? I'm sure you wouldn't go and blow £20k on a new car just because you were told by your mate he was gonna put £20k in your account next week would you?

 

3. Kirby? It was a no go straight from the off. Due dilligence wasn't carried out properly - they continued and ploughed millions into a project that had received opposition from people who knew it wasn't viable - moreso proved it wasnt even before the government rejected it and in the enquiry it was evident that much wrong doings were happening.

 

At the end of the day it all comes down to the fact that some fans have an emotional connection to Bill because they believe he loves the club and identify with him. His mistakes have been treated with an "ah well, he's only doing his best"

 

not good enough

[Matt]

I'll let you fight with Dunc, he's probably got more patience than I have and if you're going to ignore counter arguments (again) then I really cannot be bothered.

[Hafnia]

 

 

Once again you whine about the asset stripping yet you never answer what you think he should have done instead

 

Would you prefer it if we still had Bellefield and the other assets but had got relegated and now been playing in Division 2?

You're like a broken record you just keep regurgitating the same old shite and can never be drawn on any questions put to you

 

We all agree the stadium saga's have been monumental fuck ups and we all agree that there have been plenty more things that the club can be held accountable to so in fact yes I can " accept all the shite that kenwright and his merry band of men have lumbered us with"

 

The difference is I can see both sides of the coin, you go on about balanced arguments yet you stick your head up you're arse when it comes to Johnson and cant see whats right in front of you

 

And for the record I wasn't referring to you sharing the same opinions as SOS, more so the behavioural tendencies

 

so we have to put up with his "rescue act" for 20 years and believe that no one viable had approached him to buy? - I know for 100% fact that Lerner approached him to buy - so on that alone Kenwright is lying.

 

The whole sorry affair should have ended with Kings dock - simple as that. That came about from lies. He has bought people into our club who lie.

 

But hey, he saved us from PJ... selling bellefield, mortgaging against goodison (because of another of his mistakes NTL) etc etc is all part of business.... its not. Paying ridiculous interest rates because we spent money we didnt have almost got us into adminsitration (not just Johnson).

 

If he didn't blow that NTL money that wasnt there and we weren't left with a high risk mortgage resulting in crippling interest payments we could have adopted the steady eddie approach. Ultimately he too like PJ advertently did a Peter Ridsdale and only just got away with it.

 

 

I'll leave this thread, the facts (anecdotal or otherwise) are there, you wanna believe what you wanna believe. Facts remain, we have been left well behind in his tenure and his mistakes have majorly contributed to that.

[Matt]

 

so we have to put up with his "rescue act" for 20 years and believe that no one viable had approached him to buy? - I know for 100% fact that Lerner approached him to buy - so on that alone Kenwright is lying.

 

The whole sorry affair should have ended with Kings dock - simple as that. That came about from lies. He has bought people into our club who lie.

 

But hey, he saved us from PJ... selling bellefield, mortgaging against goodison (because of another of his mistakes NTL) etc etc is all part of business.... its not. Paying ridiculous interest rates because we spent money we didnt have almost got us into adminsitration (not just Johnson).

 

If he didn't blow that NTL money that wasnt there and we weren't left with a high risk mortgage resulting in crippling interest payments we could have adopted the steady eddie approach. Ultimately he too like PJ advertently did a Peter Ridsdale and only just got away with it.

 

 

I'll leave this thread, the facts (anecdotal or otherwise) are there, you wanna believe what you wanna believe. Facts remain, we have been left well behind in his tenure and his mistakes have majorly contributed to that.

They are, take them all into consideration rather than the ones that back up your argument

[Hafnia]

I'll let you fight with Dunc, he's probably got more patience than I have and if you're going to ignore counter arguments (again) then I really cannot be bothered.

 

Its not patience you need Matt - its the time to actually really look into the masses of information out there.

 

I have answered your responses - if you ain't heavily invested in getting as much info in order to debunk these statements then don't just say "ignore counter arguments" - they are considered and I have replied.

 

If you weant to ignore the sheer magnitude of the kings dock failure then ok, if you want to think Bill was lied to rather than he was grossly negligent then ok.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Hafnia

[Matt]

 

Its not patience you need Matt - its the time to actually really look into the masses of information out there.

 

I have answered your responses - if you ain't heavily invested in getting as much info in order to debunk these statements then don't just say "ignore counter arguments" - they are considered and I have replied.

 

If you weant to ignore the sheer magnitude of the kings dock failure then ok, if you want to think Bill was lied to rather than he was grossly negligent then ok.

I have, and I'm with Dunc. What needed to be done to keep the club afloat was done. Ideal? Absolutely not but it had to be done. Has BK and the board messed up since? Yes, of course. Are there some dodgy dealings going on? I'm far from convinced.

 

A reply with the same old broken record stuff, not even bothering to recognize a counter argument because it challenges yours.

 

Now you're proving you don't bother reading. I do recognize that, I've said many times it's been his biggest failure during his tenure. It's more a matter of you ignoring what's in front of you to suit your argument. But then, why am I surprised? Actually, I'm not. Not even a little...

 

Like I said, enjoy your frustration fest and carry on with your partial argument (which has valid points). I've not got the energy.

[Romey 1878]

This almost makes me wish for Lukaku debate .

[Hafnia]

I have, and I'm with Dunc. What needed to be done to keep the club afloat was done. Ideal? Absolutely not but it had to be done. Has BK and the board messed up since? Yes, of course. Are there some dodgy dealings going on? I'm far from convinced.

 

A reply with the same old broken record stuff, not even bothering to recognize a counter argument because it challenges yours.

 

Now you're proving you don't bother reading. I do recognize that, I've said many times it's been his biggest failure during his tenure. It's more a matter of you ignoring what's in front of you to suit your argument. But then, why am I surprised? Actually, I'm not. Not even a little...

 

Like I said, enjoy your frustration fest and carry on with your partial argument (which has valid points). I've not got the energy.

 

Lets go back to where all this stems from Matt - we are being told that be careful for what you wish for... that Bill has been a good egg etc etc.

 

My short take on it is this:-

 

he's made more mess ups than good decisions. His choice in managers has been good and that is about it from a decision perspective. The rest is just a continuity of bad decisions and PR cover ups.

 

Do we need someone else? Yes - like 15 years ago

 

Do I trust him? No.

 

Do I think there have been extremely shady goings on - yes

 

leave it at that hey.

[Matt]

Fair enough.

[c1982]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-new-stadium-would-9907328

[markjazzbassist]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-new-stadium-would-9907328

 

something every fan on here knows and has been saying for years.

 

bravo to southampton though, well run club and academy.

[Shukes]

This almost makes me wish for Lukaku debate .

Haha right in the exact spot it should be....lightened my mood a bit haha.

[Matt]

something every fan on here knows and has been saying for years.

 

bravo to southampton though, well run club and academy.

St Mary's may well be a step from The Dell, but it's stil only 32k capacity. We've got the local fan base for 50k week in, plus add to the fact away attendance could be 7-10k (including attractions) and it's a different world.

[markjazzbassist]

St Mary's may well be a step from The Dell, but it's stil only 32k capacity. We've got the local fan base for 50k week in, plus add to the fact away attendance could be 7-10k (including attractions) and it's a different world.

 

no doubt, wasn't comparing them to us just saying they've come a long way and have done well, good for them.

 

other than that the article re-hashed what every person pro-board or anti-board or apathetic towards board feels. a proper stadium or goodison revamp and we are back with the big boys.

 

216m pounds valuation for us though was interesting i'll give him that.

Edited August 21, 2015 by markjazzbassist

[MikeO]

 

bravo to southampton though, well run club and academy.

 

As long as we conveniently forget the Vibrac loan. We get shafted for that while they are applauded.

 

Just saying.

[Blue 250]

So we didn't get sugar daddy Randy Lerner, he bought Villa around 2005, I don't recall Villa doing better than us over the last 10 years, infact I'd say we blasted them and their 'extra' money out of the water.

 

In the last few years, I guess the Moyes years you could call them, only really the very rich ( bigger is the wrong word) clubs have actually won anything except the odd token cup.

 

Liverpool have been brought out a few times now, spent mega millions, haven't really done that much, except a couple of very lucky cup wins.

 

If Everton, Spurs, Newcastle and say Stoke were all on the end of a Russian/Arab buy out, that would have those teams plus the usual Man City, United, Chelsea, Arsenal and liverpool (that's 9 teams) fighting it out for four places and the odd cup, most will probably never win a thing despite all their millions spent.

 

Russian owner, big flashy stadium 2/3 full, mega rich players who've never heard of Everton........and never finish in the top 4 or win a cup, could happen.

 

I don't want to get into the board debate, have neither the time or the interest.

 

Could well beat City at the weekend and finish above liverpool this season, next season with a wealthy Arab owner we could lose to City and finish below liverpool.

[Hafnia]

So we didn't get sugar daddy Randy Lerner, he bought Villa around 2005, I don't recall Villa doing better than us over the last 10 years, infact I'd say we blasted them and their 'extra' money out of the water.

 

In the last few years, I guess the Moyes years you could call them, only really the very rich ( bigger is the wrong word) clubs have actually won anything except the odd token cup.

 

Liverpool have been brought out a few times now, spent mega millions, haven't really done that much, except a couple of very lucky cup wins.

 

If Everton, Spurs, Newcastle and say Stoke were all on the end of a Russian/Arab buy out, that would have those teams plus the usual Man City, United, Chelsea, Arsenal and liverpool (that's 9 teams) fighting it out for four places and the odd cup, most will probably never win a thing despite all their millions spent.

 

Russian owner, big flashy stadium 2/3 full, mega rich players who've never heard of Everton........and never finish in the top 4 or win a cup, could happen.

 

I don't want to get into the board debate, have neither the time or the interest.

 

Could well beat City at the weekend and finish above liverpool this season, next season with a wealthy Arab owner we could lose to City and finish below liverpool.

Villa didn't do well under Lerner because Martin oneill spent his chairmans money on overpriced shite.

 

As much as I wasn't keen on moyes style I have no doubt he would have had us in champs league regularly with the £200m Lerner pumped into the club he bought.

[Makis]

St Mary's may well be a step from The Dell, but it's stil only 32k capacity. We've got the local fan base for 50k week in, plus add to the fact away attendance could be 7-10k (including attractions) and it's a different world.

It has lots morr corporate boxes, though.

[Newty82]

I like reading balanced articles lead by factual information, were the author isn't blinded by their own prejudices....

 

http://www.stdomingos.com/?p=147860

 

Who ever writes these is doing a great job. Well worth a read. The link above is 'Part 2' looking into the club finances. Stumbled across it doing some googling. Just about to read Part 1 which seems to be about the club's ownership. The author has 2 more parts coming up. Worth keeping an eye on.

 

Enjoy.

[Blue 250]

Villa didn't do well under Lerner because Martin oneill spent his chairmans money on overpriced shite.

 

As much as I wasn't keen on moyes style I have no doubt he would have had us in champs league regularly with the £200m Lerner pumped into the club he bought.

 

Well to be honest, their is a lot of overpriced shit about, we/Moyes could well have ended up with a few of them, but that arguement would come down to managers, seems now your thinking Moyes wasn't too bad.

 

If we get our Russian or Arab and we are found wanting with our manager and a few overpriced players whilst at the same time losing our soul......that would be more of a disaster than what we were achieving with Moyes.We might not win anything even with all the extra money.

 

If Chelsea take Stones, and the rich teams dominate even more in the next couple of seasons than they already do, then it will be nothing like the football that I remember, it's already probably gone too far, I'll probably just walk away and find something better to do with my time.

 

But for all this I don't blame Kenwright.

 

We could blame Everton not being great on Hysel or Howard Kendall leaving.

 

Good luck with the debate eveyone, I look forward to finding out the truth.

[Newty82]

The truth is out there! Haha!

 

We need to stop hoping for a Russian or Arab. It's not gonna happen for us or any other team. It's happened twice in England. That's all.

 

All the others aren't worth talking about. Villa with Lerner...great, they currently have £100+ mill debt. For what?

 

There seems an illusion out there that these guys come in and just give their hard earned money to a football club that they previously had naff all interest in. They don't. Are we really that daft that we believe these people work their arses off, build up a fortune, then just give it away?!!! With Villa, Liverpool, Stoke etc all monies are secured against assets, be it the stadium, training ground, land. Whatever bricks and mortar has a value. These guys are savvy business men who's only aim is to grow their wealth. Not give it away. They know that land etc will continue to increase in value. They know that even if the 'xxxx Football Club Limited' was to run into financial difficulty, that their money is safe because that massive bit of land is signed over to 'My Financial Security Limited'. It's exactly the same as when all these investment firms bought into these retailers over the last 10 years...then the retailers went 'bankrupt' but the investment firm made a profit?!!! Again, excuse my terminology...I'm a bit rusty with it! But I'm sure you know what I mean.

 

With us it was maybe a bit different, Kenwright had nowhere near enough personal money to put in and secure against assets, so the assets had to be sold to keep cash flowing.

 

I just want to make clear I'm not out and out defending Kenwright and Co. But I do feel that airplane banners after one game of the new season is to much.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

so we have to put up with his "rescue act" for 20 years and believe that no one viable had approached him to buy? - I know for 100% fact that Lerner approached him to buy - so on that alone Kenwright is lying.

 

The whole sorry affair should have ended with Kings dock - simple as that. That came about from lies. He has bought people into our club who lie.

 

But hey, he saved us from PJ... selling bellefield, mortgaging against goodison (because of another of his mistakes NTL) etc etc is all part of business.... its not. Paying ridiculous interest rates because we spent money we didnt have almost got us into adminsitration (not just Johnson).

 

If he didn't blow that NTL money that wasnt there and we weren't left with a high risk mortgage resulting in crippling interest payments we could have adopted the steady eddie approach. Ultimately he too like PJ advertently did a Peter Ridsdale and only just got away with it.

 

 

I'll leave this thread, the facts (anecdotal or otherwise) are there, you wanna believe what you wanna believe. Facts remain, we have been left well behind in his tenure and his mistakes have majorly contributed to that.

 

 

What should we have done then?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/600411/Crystal-Palace-Steve-Parish-Everton-Bill-Kenwright-Premier-League-Football

 

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/600439/Everton-Premier-League-Football

 

http://toffeenews.com/roberto-martinez-faces-the-sack-at-everton-if-he-cant-make-transfer-system-work/

Edited August 24, 2015 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Makis]

Bill's PR machine hard at work. Seems like the excuses for transfer failings are starting to emerge. He's a great chairman even though he's skint and if the club doesn't sign good players it's Martinez's fault.

[Hafnia]

Steve Parish??? Blimey, does he want front row tickets to the shawshank redemption.

[StevO]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/600411/Crystal-Palace-Steve-Parish-Everton-Bill-Kenwright-Premier-League-Football

 

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/600439/Everton-Premier-League-Football

 

http://toffeenews.com/roberto-martinez-faces-the-sack-at-everton-if-he-cant-make-transfer-system-work/

 

One article saying we are being left behind and one saying its as good as it gets?

At least they recognise the golden goose of the kings dock.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Hmmm I see Haf hasn't answered my question again then!

[Hafnia]

Hmmm I see Haf hasn't answered my question again then!

What question Duncan about asset utilisation on the premise that a complete and utter business fuck up rendered the club with a mortgage that had the banks more or less running us???

 

Do I start the story after that to appease you? As in... "Oooh we had this debt that needed to be repaid and yeah anyway the club more or less had to sell its assets to reepay the interest on this high risk loan?"

 

I know you'd like to pretend that such a fuck up couldn't be attributed to Bill, but it was him. Other than that rumours are that the persistence in Kirby cost us £10m, going to the likes of HOK sport for their consultancy in something that was never going totake off.