Hafnia Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 In my honest opinion it took a while before fellaini justified his £15m fee, to be honest I would have sold him for £7m after the first season, he was a panic buy. In all honesty, do we think he is worth £25m just because we paid £17m for him? In my heart of hearts, £23m is about right. I am optimistic that Martinez has well done his work in getting his succession planning done and has his ducks lined up. Gutted about Baines going but wish him well (if it happens). Hopefully RM unearths a gem. The relaince on Baines may not be so great now we have Barkley pulling strings in midfield (hopeful) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 The trouble is some are saying we should spend the money on this and that player but the likely hood is we will see less then half of any money coming in if they are sold. Money will go to appease the banks then you have to take into account we will owe Liege a decent sized sell on fee. I'm certain that we will negate that by the double bid placing a higher value on Baines and having Fellaini as £15m - leaving them with zilch. The right thing will be to do £20m fellaini - £18m baines, and they get £500k or something. Maybe i'm being soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 He's got red hair but we don't care ..... cos he's a bastard. Lowensda and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 I don't understand why we are willing to sell them at thier true value? The market is vastly inflated with the likes of Bale going for 90 million and there are loads of other examples to use, so why are we selling at thier true value. Theres a boom in transfer fees at the moment but we are only selling for the true value of the player. Its like the housing boom in the 90's why would anyone not sell there house in accordance to market conditions rather than the true value of the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 He's not worth that though that's why no one has moved even when the release fee was active. Look at it from a different viewpoint, when Fellaini joined us he was raw, petulent, poor disciplinary record, but it was obvious that he had something, so it was up to Moyes to polish the rough edges and make him into a player. So 5 years down the line and what's changed.. not that much imo, YES he has improved his overall game but he is still petulent/sulky, still ill disciplined, no one seems to know whether he is better upfront or as a defensive player. The big teams want more of a finished article than what Fellaini offers imo. Don't get me wrong he deserves his chance in the CL, but he has been linked with moves ever since he got here yet no one has ever actually come in for him, somewhere around the £23m release fee is about correct imo. He is one of the best CM in the league, without doubt. Modric went for 35m, Felli is not 12m worse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 He is one of the best CM in the league, without doubt. Modric went for 35m, Felli is not 12m worse... Exactly thats what I am trying to get across. Why are we selling one of the players in the league for such a small figure (in terms of transfer deals gone through). Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 The fellaini we seen against Man united and Man city was a £40m player, just never seen enough of him. Get the money in, get him gone and lets rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 The fellaini we seen against Man united and Man city was a £40m player, just never seen enough of him. Get the money in, get him gone and lets rebuild. Perhaps for Tony Pulis, the top sides aren't going to spend 40m on a player for being a great target man. SimonButtle and Quinn31 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 shame liverpool aren't in for him cos they paid 35m for a shit one Steve_E 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 I have long been of the opinion that if one of them goes it should be Fellaini, but I've changed my mind. As good as Baines is, he's a 28 year old left back (turning 29 in December). With our sell-to-buy-necessity, it just would not make sense to turn down a good offer. We have already been drained of sellable assets in recent years with Rodwell and Arteta going among others. The squad is aging, will need major revamping over the next couple of years and who are we going to sell in order to get the money neccesary to do so? We are not going to be raking in big money selling Darron Gibson, Phil Jagielka is 31 and won't be bringing in a lot either, Jelavic won't either unless he improves massively this season. In two years timee, Baines won't be worth 10m, Fellaini will still get us a lot of money. And he'll be the only one. Coleman and Mirallas might still grab us a nice figure but not enough to adequately replace themselves and replace Distin and Osman and Hibbert and other possible retirees. And I don't want to sell Barkley. marcus jones and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 In two years timee, Baines won't be worth 10m, Fellaini will still get us a lot of money. And he'll be the only one. Coleman and Mirallas might still grab us a nice figure but not enough to adequately replace themselves and replace Distin and Osman and Hibbert and other possible retirees. And I don't want to sell Barkley. Thats 2-3 years of a player at his peak. Id rather have that than cash in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Thats 2-3 years of a player at his peak. Id rather have that than cash in now. What exactly is 2-3 years of Baines' prime going to get us though? Finishing 7th while giving him even more money than he already earns, even though we can't really afford to pay our players what we are already giving them at the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Thats 2-3 years of a player at his peak. Id rather have that than cash in now. Agree, a player at his peak for 2-3 season is worth far more than 12 million (United offer) for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzp7zy Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) Agree, a player at his peak for 2-3 season is worth far more than 12 million (United offer) for us. How do you work that out? How many places at £1m per place in the EPL will Bainsey get us? Even with him and Felli we aren't going to get into Champs League next year so you can't anticipate that we'll be earning big money on the back of just him over the next couple of seasons? Edited August 29, 2013 by SharpysVolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 He is one of the best CM in the league, without doubt. Modric went for 35m, Felli is not 12m worse... Sorry Matt, but i don't think he is anywhere near the top CM in the league, City only paid £23m for Silva and some fans want us to ask £30m for Fellaini, Silva's light years ahead of Fellaini(i know this is only one example) opening bids for Fabregas recently were £25m, again a totally different league to Felly. Im in agreement that i don't want Moyes getting some special deal from Blue Bill, but some fans valuation's are laughable. Im actually warming to the idea of keeping him and selling Baines, makes more logic when you think about it. Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Sorry Matt, but i don't think he is anywhere near the top CM in the league, City only paid £23m for Silva and some fans want us to ask £30m for Fellaini, Silva's light years ahead of Fellaini(i know this is only one example) opening bids for Fabregas recently were £25m, again a totally different league to Felly. Im in agreement that i don't want Moyes getting some special deal from Blue Bill, but some fans valuation's are laughable. Im actually warming to the idea of keeping him and selling Baines, makes more logic when you think about it. Barca laughed at the bid for Fab, they paid 10 more with him begging Arsenal to let him go that would be a truer value for Fellaini. Don't get how either example has logic one bid was brushed aside and the other player was inexperienced, see Steve_E's post for a logical reason. Closest comparisons would be Modric or Fab (£35 mil) as prem experience or the only player at his ability/position Martinez who went for €40 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) Barca laughed at the bid for Fab, they paid 10 more with him begging Arsenal to let him go that would be a truer value for Fellaini. Don't get how either example has logic one bid was brushed aside and the other player was inexperienced, see Steve_E's post for a logical reason. Closest comparisons would be Modric or Fab (£35 mil) as prem experience or the only player at his ability/position Martinez who went for €40 mil. Id hardly call Silva inexperienced(please don't start all that 'Well he never played in the premiership before' shite) He had played in a seriously talented Valencia team and the Spanish national team. If you want to use those as examples i still think both those players are the next level up from Fellaini, and i have seen people saying we should be looking for £30m+ and i just don't think he is worth anything like that sort of money. He has been in the Premiership for 5 years now, if he really was THAT good, he would have been long gone by now imo He definitely has the potential but just doesn't show it anything like the required amount. The reason i want him to stay is so we can see what Martinez could add to his game, id love to see him being the main man in a Martinez type midfield, he could become a £50m midfielder under Martinez imo, but sadly i think the manger is quite happy to part with him. At the moment i do think some need a reality check though, just look back to last season, post christmas he disappeared in half the games just out of pure laziness, NO CL team is going to pay £35m for a guy who blatently strolls round the pitch like he does at times, it's just not going to happen. Edited August 29, 2013 by Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 What exactly is 2-3 years of Baines' prime going to get us though? Finishing 7th while giving him even more money than he already earns, even though we can't really afford to pay our players what we are already giving them at the moment? 2-3 years of one of the most productive players in Europe is worth more than buying unknown players who might amount to nothing. I dread to think where we would be without his service? 2 places lower is 2m less income. That's a very generous prediction.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Id hardly call Silva inexperienced(please don't start all that 'Well he never played in the premiership before' shite) He had played in a seriously talented Valencia team and the Spanish national team. If you want to use those as examples i still think both those players are the next level up from Fellaini, and i have seen people saying we should be looking for £30m+ and i just don't think he is worth anything like that sort of money. He has been in the Premiership for 5 years now, if he really was THAT good, he would have been long gone by now imo He definitely has the potential but just doesn't show it anything like the required amount. The reason i want him to stay is so we can see what Martinez could add to his game, id love to see him being the main man in a Martinez type midfield, he could become a £50m midfielder under Martinez imo, but sadly i think the manger is quite happy to part with him. At the moment i do think some need a reality check though, just look back to last season, post christmas he disappeared in half the games just out of pure laziness, NO CL team is going to pay £35m for a guy who blatently strolls round the pitch like he does at times, it's just not going to happen. It's not shite many players better than Silva have struggled to have an impact over here. Veron, Shevchenko, Deco, and Ballack all experienced and class in other leagues but didn't cut it at the same level in the prem. Never seen Fabregas put a shift in to rival Fellaini v City, not players ever will. Most of what your saying rests on Moyes wasting him out of position. As a DM there's no rival for what he can do, just imagine if he played there every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 2-3 years of one of the most productive players in Europe is worth more than buying unknown players who might amount to nothing. I dread to think where we would be without his service? 2 places lower is 2m less income. That's a very generous prediction.... He wasn't very productive when you discount set pieces, more so when you look at the proportion of goals we conceded down the left. We would have been more dangerous mixing it up, all we became too predictable and other teams took advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) It's not shite many players better than Silva have struggled to have an impact over here. Veron, Shevchenko, Deco, and Ballack all experienced and class in other leagues but didn't cut it at the same level in the prem. Never seen Fabregas put a shift in to rival Fellaini v City, not players ever will. Most of what your saying rests on Moyes wasting him out of position. As a DM there's no rival for what he can do, just imagine if he played there every week. Well at least we agree on one thing Edited August 29, 2013 by Simon pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Well at least we agree on one thing As an AM, where most people seem to think he plays thanks to motd, I'd say he's worth no more than £15 mil. But infront of the defence he's worth silly money. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-blow-for-leighton-baines-as-everton-turn-down-second-joint-bid-from-manchester-united-8790482.html £38m rejected. Hard ball, like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 As an AM, where most people seem to think he plays thanks to motd, I'd say he's worth no more than £15 mil. But infront of the defence he's worth silly money. I get so annoyed hearing pundits say that. Such a shortsighted view of things.They fail to recall how that tactic was found out after a while, and Fellaini doesn't play the best when frustrated by defenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 "Baines, 28, has asked the club to negotiate a deal with United in meetings with the manager, Roberto Martinez, and another with the chairman, Bill Kenwright, that have taken place over the summer, as revealed by The Independent yesterday. Baines wants the transfer to go ahead and Everton are well aware of his state of mind on the subject." "Today, Martinez denied in his morning press conference that Baines has asked him or the club to do a deal with United, but refused to elaborate on the issue any further." So the Independent report what Bob has said which completely contradicts what they have said in the previous paragraph. Should they not pont out that either.... a. They know shit or b. Martinez is lying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/13-14/rumour-mill/25538.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainaar Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/29/manchester-united-baines-fellaini-everton Would normally class the guardian as reliable but the article seems like it has purely fabricated these quotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainaar Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 What baffles me is Martinez says he doesn't want them to go, we don't need to sell we are in a good financial situation then he now leaves the situation to Kenwright to continue negotiating with Man Utd when it's getting late in the window what the hell is this? Kenwright is going to screw us over and sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 What baffles me is Martinez says he doesn't want them to go, we don't need to sell we are in a good financial situation then he now leaves the situation to Kenwright to continue negotiating with Man Utd when it's getting late in the window what the hell is this? Kenwright is going to screw us over and sell. Everyone has a price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 See RM's quotes.... Doesn't wanna know just wants to be told of outcome. Aka:- bill wants to sell, I'm fucked off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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