Southampton (A)

[Sibdane]

 

Reminds me of something that; just can't quite put my finger on it.

Ugh. Don't remind me. Moyes was great, but it was time for a change, because things got stale. Don't tell me things are already stale with Martinez.

 

We still have a half of a season left, and I believe we will start hitting form soon, but I can't just sit here with "brown(shoe)" tinted classes on.

[markjazzbassist]

I'm like you in that I try to give the manager the benefit of the doubt, but there are no excuses for today. The players should be ashamed, and I still can't wrap my head around the whole subs(or lack thereof) thing.

 

How can we expect to keep players like Mirallas or Barkley when we can't do anything?

 

sadly we can't. mirallas i've given up on (transfer wise), stones too (he'll leave one day), but ross barkley is really something. and if we sell him it's gonna break my heart.

[Toffee_in_LA]

I'm like you in that I try to give the manager the benefit of the doubt, but there are no excuses for today. The players should be ashamed, and I still can't wrap my head around the whole subs(or lack thereof) thing.

 

How can we expect to keep players like Mirallas or Barkley when we can't do anything?

The only thing I can defend about the subs (can't defend the fact that they should have been made at the hour mark if not at halftime) is that once we went 3-0 down, there really was no point in making them since we got so many games coming up.

 

I'm just upset because I went out late last night and my friend was talking smack about me waking up early to watch Everton (Chelsea fan). They are shit this year is what he told me. He's going to have a day after he sees the score of this game.

[Newty82]

Just to say I call 'foul play' on some hand picked lines from Martinez post game interview. Taking snippets is a bit deceiving...use the full sentences...

 

Everton manager Roberto Martinez on BBC Sport:

"Very disappointing. A game with nothing between the two sides apart from ourselves not being able to defend the six-yard box better.

"It is about how we defended the six-yard box, the other two goals were the same. They didn't have to do much to score three goals. It was not a case of them being superior to us, it is just we were very soft.

"I do feel we need to find a good run of performances. I don't think the performance was too far away from what you need to get good results

[Toffee_in_LA]

Just to say I call 'foul play' on some hand picked lines from Martinez post game interview. Taking snippets is a bit deceiving...use the full sentences...

 

Everton manager Roberto Martinez on BBC Sport:

"Very disappointing. A game with nothing between the two sides apart from ourselves not being able to defend the six-yard box better.

"It is about how we defended the six-yard box, the other two goals were the same. They didn't have to do much to score three goals. It was not a case of them being superior to us, it is just we were very soft.

"I do feel we need to find a good run of performances. I don't think the performance was too far away from what you need to get good results

Fair enough, I was looking at the quotes from twitter. Still that last sentence is pretty upsetting. I'm over it now though, it is what it is.

[Hafnia]

Fooking miles away from where we need to be Roberto. Your diagnostics are shite based on following formations.

 

We aren't a 24 man world class player squad. Certain players need to play certain positions and that's it.

 

You were in the process of building a nice house but all of a sudden you are concentrating on making the garden look nice. Fuck the garden! Let it get muddy whilst the building of the house gets finished.

 

He must be sitting in a throne in his house drinking expensive red wine underneath a picture of himself. Let Brendan Rodgers do that, you are still serving your big club apprenticeship.

[Shukes]

Oh come on ffs. Lukaku scores goals, he was fantastic last season. Barry held the midfield together at times last season too, well worth signing.

How come so many feel that they know football better than a guy who has played all his life and managed several

 

Do you guys take part in every practice? Every training? Do you know who is hot and who isnt? How the fuck would you know if there are better alteratives to the team that our manager fields?

 

Get behind our team, our players and our manager.

 

Im fucking out, too many negative shits around here lately. (This is not just aimed at you shukes, youre normally very sound)

It's just frustration mate. I watched the match and felt a bit let down. We seem to have a few outstanding individuals but it just doesn't seem to work.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/everton/368/blog/post/2209194/martinez-deserves-blame-for-wretched-everton

 

Sounds like I didn't miss anything then!

[Sideliner]

What a poor performance - in the final and the first third.

Look at the game again and tell me honestly we don't need a proper nr 10 -

we are like a rifle without a trigger -

and then the astonishing lack of subs or as some would say a plan B or plan C -

Martinez will have to improve his player management and develop creative ways to try and win -

We can not play like Real Madrid if we do not have the same skill levels in the midfield,

Get real Roberto ! We simply have to start conceding less than we score if we want to win consistantly.

[bassman]

O'Farrell on espn, summed it up well " Perhaps most alarming of all is Martinez's inability to acknowledge what appears right under his nose. "I did feel that the team was the right one to get back into the game," said the Blues' boss."

 

I cant stand that twat Shearer, but he also summed it up well, , Shite defending,no substitutions and no plan B.

[Romey 1878]

O'Farrell on espn, summed it up well " Perhaps most alarming of all is Martinez's inability to acknowledge what appears right under his nose. "I did feel that the team was the right one to get back into the game," said the Blues' boss."

 

I cant stand that twat Shearer, but he also summed it up well, , Shite defending,no substitutions and no plan B.

 

It's his complete unawareness of the problems in front of him that has me worried - if he's not going to acknowledge the problems that are clear as day to everyone then they won't get solved and we'll continue to lose games, and lose them comfortably.

 

It's the next day and I'm still dumbfounded by the starting 11 he put out.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/everton/368/blog/post/2209194/martinez-deserves-blame-for-wretched-everton

 

Sounds like I didn't miss anything then!

 

Wish I'd looked in here before posting this article in a thread I got to first!

[seve]

left back needs a spell out ready replacement available same for distin same for howard we need to learn to defend all over again

January top priority is a new keeper I know a lot of you will say joel is as bad but lets give him a run you can not just keep doing

the same things over and over again. The back four were shocking but there was no one behind them no one to come for crosses.

[Newty82]

Get real Roberto ! We simply have to start conceding less than we score if we want to win consistantly.

That's it...that's the missing formula! I can't believe no one has picked up on this already! Simples.

 

[markjazzbassist]

I've been thinking, playing mcgeady on the left and atsu on the right with naisy acm and Ross sitting with besic, might have had the same result but at least people would be playing their proper posititions. Why get atsu if he sucks? Play the lad, let him come good. Same with mcgeady. Better than Ross and naisy on the wings.

[Guest rusty747]

I have to put my hand up and say that I thought the starting eleven yesterday would work and I was comfortable, confident even, going into the game. It would therefore be hypocritical of me to slate Roberto for his starting eleven. However, when it became blatantly obvious that it wasn't working, what did he do? Zip, Nada, Nothing and that is absolutely unforgiveable

 

I am now persuaded that Naismith, Eto'o and Barkley cannot start together as attacking midfielders so what are the options?

 

We could play Ross deeper (as against QPR) along either one or two defensive mids with two or three attacking mids behind Lukaku or Kone.

 

Or we could just go 442

 

My point is that something, anything, has to change in tactics, formation, attitude, hunger and belief before the Stoke game. I don't see any benefit in dropping Howard for Robles. We have surely seen enough from both to realise that Tim's best days are behind him and Robles simply isn't up to the task. Ergo, new 'keeper in January please. Cech on loan maybe?

 

So, against teams we are expected to beat, and hoping Kev and Jimmy Mac are fit again, how about:

 

Howard (until Jan replacement)

Coleman/Hibbert. Jags. Stones. Baines/Garbutt

Jimmy Mac/Besic. Barkley

Mirallas. Naismith. Pienaar/Mcgeady

Kone/Lukaku

If we need to be a bit more defensive then play a midfield three of Jimmy Mac, Besic and Barkley

With Mirallas, Lukaku aand Pienaar in front.

 

442 would look like

Howard

 

Hibbo/coleman Jags Stones Garbutt/Baines

Mirallas Jimmy Mac Barkley Besic/Mcgeady

Kone Lukaku

 

Apologies for the rambling - still in shock from yesterday.

Edited December 21, 2014 by rusty747

[Romey 1878]

I've been thinking, playing mcgeady on the left and atsu on the right with naisy acm and Ross sitting with besic, might have had the same result but at least people would be playing their proper posititions. Why get atsu if he sucks? Play the lad, let him come good. Same with mcgeady. Better than Ross and naisy on the wings.

 

Atsu's injured remember.

[Elston Gunnn]

.... I'm still dumbfounded by the starting 11 he put out.

I will assume this mostly refers to starting all of Eto'o, Barkley, and Naismith, though I could imagine other reservations about this player or that.

 

My own pre-match comments focused on what I could only assume was RM's plan for these 3 to play "fluidly, " i.e., each player sometimes going forward centrally, at other times on a wing, thus presumably confusing defenders. I was surprised McGeady didn't start, though it's not as if McGeady garners a whole lot of support/confidence here. Pienaar not deemed ready, Mirallas injured again, one-match experiment with Coleman on wing unsuccessful -- no good wing options, so to me McGeady seemed the "least bad" option. RM thought otherwise.

 

The match performance, in the event, was embarrassing, most obviously on defense. Is there a direct connection between the discombobulation of the "fluidity experiment" on offense and the atrocious defending? It's inconceivable -- isn't it?? -- that RM would start exactly the same 11 v. Stoke? But his own post-match comments "admitted" only to failures on defense. His "we had the right team out there" comments admitted no flaw in the attacking set-up.

 

Trying to be upbeat here -- not easy for anyone, save RM -- I will look forward to seeing whether and how RM reconfigures lineups for the upcoming 3 matches in 7 days. I would expect to see Stones start a minimum of one match, more likely 2. I'd think at some point RM will again pair Barkley with Besic/Barry/McCarthy, allowing Naismith/Eto'o to play centrally. Barry moved to CB at least one match to accommodate Barkley with Besic/McCarthy? McGeady bound to start in 2 of the 3 matches, yes? Kone surely starts up front v. either Stoke or Newcastle. Surely. Hope to see Garbutt and/or Oviedo soon, starting or for extended minutes.

 

Overall, I will hope RM starts no outfield player in all 3 matches, and that he does not persist in the "fluidity experiment." Frankly, over the next 3, whenever McGeady doesn't start at RM, I'd prefer Lukaku out there, where he might occasionally use his speed and power to beat a defender by cutting inside for a left-footed drive.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Elston Gunnn

[Romey 1878]

Elston - yeah, mostly that. If yesterday was the first time Martinez had tried that and it'd backfired then I could say fair enough, but he's tried it a few times and it just hasn't worked. It leaves us with no width and no pace either. So why do it again? Especially as we'd won our previous game and it was a chance for us to put a couple of results together and maybe build confidence going into the Christmas period. Now that's been destroyed due to Martinez being a moron.

 

Then there's also the crazy decision to shove Barkley out on the left to accommodate Gareth Barry. The Gareth Barry who had looked totally off his game before the suspension. And Barkley and Besic had been a great partnership against QPR. There was absolutely no reason to make that change and its further evidence of him making changes for changes sake.

[markjazzbassist]

 

Atsu's injured remember.

I didn't know that. We have mcgeady and a half fit pienaar, my gosh we have a lot of injuries. Call Matty Kennedy back, he didn't play at all the last match for hibs and isn't starting anymore and they keep winning so he's expendable there.

[Newty82]

I didn't know that. We have mcgeady and a half fit pienaar, my gosh we have a lot of injuries. Call Matty Kennedy back, he didn't play at all the last match for hibs and isn't starting anymore and they keep winning so he's expendable there.

Yeah. He ain't starting for Hibs in Scotlands 2nd tier. But bring him back here and play him? Doesn't convince me that one!

 

I'm sure we have better options.

[MC11]

Newty the options out wide are very poor! We have Mirallas & when he's out injured nobody else. We used to be able to rely on Pienaar. Not anymore.

[Newty82]

Newty the options out wide are very poor! We have Mirallas & when he's out injured nobody else. We used to be able to rely on Pienaar. Not anymore.

Ai, I know. My comment above was half a joke.

 

But in all seriousness, what does anyone think a lad, who can't get into a team in the Scottish 2nd tier, is going to do for us? Just doesn't seem a viable option. I thought this kid had something about him, but he seems to have gone backwards.

 

Give that McAleny a go...Bit of a headless chicken but at least he runs with the ball!!!

[MC11]

I don't rate Kennedy. Let's be honest. To make it in the premiership as a british player you've got to have a little but more about you. That's why I tend to stay away from commenting on the youth team. 95% of them won't make it here. When I say make it I mean won't become a valuable member of the squad.

 

I'm very worried this season, I really am. We just aren't playing well. It's looking like a below top 6 finish already - going of stats. For me that's a poor season.

 

I wonder how long the performances on the pitch are going to go back to mocking the board? The problem we have now is the board actually backed the manager. It hasn't worked out at all for us and with the over spending on Lukaku, I can see them being very weiry of giving him a lump sum again.

[Paddock]

I wonderwhere we would have been now if we would ofbacked moyes with 35 million in one window.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I don't rate Kennedy. Let's be honest. To make it in the premiership as a british player you've got to have a little but more about you. That's why I tend to stay away from commenting on the youth team. 95% of them won't make it here. When I say make it I mean won't become a valuable member of the squad.

 

I'm very worried this season, I really am. We just aren't playing well. It's looking like a below top 6 finish already - going of stats. For me that's a poor season.

 

I wonder how long the performances on the pitch are going to go back to mocking the board? The problem we have now is the board actually backed the manager. It hasn't worked out at all for us and with the over spending on Lukaku, I can see them being very weiry of giving him a lump sum again.

I would happily take a top half finish at the moment

[Hafnia]

I wonderwhere we would have been now if we would ofbacked moyes with 35 million in one window.

Probably with Juan Mata, but he was £37m....

[AlbanyNYToffee]

Late to the party here and im sure everyone is ready to move on but im too disgusted not to post...

 

That front 4 is absolutely horrendous. HORRENDOUS. Naismith Etoo and Barkley are terrible out wide. Lukaku did well out there against Arsenal last year and yet this year he is solely used as a striker. Perhaps throw Eto'o up top and leave lukaku on a wing. Not voting for that just saying that is the only way it could produce anything remotely close to a good performance.

 

Keep rotating Barry/McCarthy/Besic in DM and plant Ross in the center as the 10. Play actual wingers and use Lukaku out wide when they need a rest. Use Eto'o and Naismith off the bench or use them to start when Lukaku goes out wide.

 

I really do like Roberto as a manager but Saturday convinced he will never be the in your face guy after a blowout. There are 2-3 occasions every season where the manager should just cook his teams performance publicly and privately. Saturday was his opportunity and he didnt do it which disappoints me. He talks a lot about the history and love of Everton but he is missing one key thing right now. Passion! Everton was built on passion and thrives on it. I dont give a shit what starting 11 is out on the field, play the under 18s for goodness sake but everyone better work their ass off and the manager better demand that.

 

On a positive note Besic is fucking brilliant. Hands down my new favorite player. The no. 17 has been great the past decade! Cahill, lukaku for his good season and now besic.

 

Lastly, and i know im mostly alone in this assessment but, I would take a 10th place finish if it meant we made it to the Europa League or FA Cup final.

[Guest rusty747]

There is something wrong with our second half performances this season especially. One interesting stat that was mentioned was that if all the games this season had finished at half time we would be third. Cant say I have checked but it seems reasonable.

[Bailey]

Elston - yeah, mostly that. If yesterday was the first time Martinez had tried that and it'd backfired then I could say fair enough, but he's tried it a few times and it just hasn't worked. It leaves us with no width and no pace either. So why do it again? Especially as we'd won our previous game and it was a chance for us to put a couple of results together and maybe build confidence going into the Christmas period. Now that's been destroyed due to Martinez being a moron.

 

Then there's also the crazy decision to shove Barkley out on the left to accommodate Gareth Barry. The Gareth Barry who had looked totally off his game before the suspension. And Barkley and Besic had been a great partnership against QPR. There was absolutely no reason to make that change and its further evidence of him making changes for changes sake.

 

I can see a reason for Barry coming into the team because Soton were likely to put us under more pressure than QPR did but to then shift Barkley wide is a sin. Then to compound that by having two other slow central players in that attacking 3 is just crazy.

 

As much as I hate saying it, McGeady would be the first name on my team sheet. We dont have anyone else capable of playing wide.