MikeO Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Sorry, after seeing the SSN interview first hand. I'm out. Completely disagree, I thought he came out of that fine and Carragher was a twat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I rememeber this conversation from last season, heard the names Ferguson and Stubbs getting bandied about as potential replacements, I'm with the board on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesey05 Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I wonder how many of you will re-post on here after the Southampton game??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Completely disagree, I thought he came out of that fine and Carragher was a twat. I thought Carragher was quite inciteful, but thats not what changed my mind. Roberto made it clear he has no intention of evolving. He justified nearly every criticism as "thats how Barca and Spain do it", defending a style of play that has known for 10 years now. We need evolution, not picking the winning (and boring) tactics from squads including Messi, Iniesta, Xavi etc. We're not equipped for it but he's made it perfectly clear he's going to carry on regardless. His blind optimism is incredible, his absolute arrogance is astonishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) First thing is first lads, he could be the 5th worst manager in the league and that would be ok for this club as it would mean safety. That is where we are i'm afraid. He has a lengthy contract that would need paying up and a new manager unless promoted from within or "unemployed" would need to come with a compensation package. Sooo... we can talk all we want about him getting the boot but do not for one minute think we would be getting a klopp or whatever, our ah hem "operating costs" are far too high for that. I am disappointed with what I see and hear with him, especially after the first season where he really did transform us. He has had one good season and one poor season so on that basis he should be given this one to see if he has learned anything. Edited August 12, 2015 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 First thing is first lads, he could be the 5th worst manager in the league and that would be ok for this club as it would mean safety. That is where we are i'm afraid. He has a lengthy contract that would need paying up and a new manager unless promoted from within or "unemployed" would need to come with a compensation package. Sooo... we can talk all we want about him getting the boot but do not for one minute think we would be getting a klopp or whatever, our ah hem "operating costs" are far too high for that. I am disappointed with what I see and hear with him, especially after the first season where he really did transform us. He has had one good season and one poor season so on that basis he should be given this one to see if he has learned anything. Agree with nearly everything, but the point in bold is that he has shown absolutely little to no evolution in the last 12 months, talks like he's not going to in the next 12 months and hopes that his charm offensive is going to save him. Thats the concern and that's why I've changed my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Agree with nearly everything, but the point in bold is that he has shown absolutely little to no evolution in the last 12 months, talks like he's not going to in the next 12 months and hopes that his charm offensive is going to save him. Thats the concern and that's why I've changed my mind. I do see a person with somewhat of a bit of a chip on his shoulder in Martinez - he has truly nailed his colours to the mast by being known as an advocat of pretty possession football. The more you harp on about possession the more of a hypocrite you will appear to be when you realise that its not always the answer. The problem with his system is when it works it looks awesome - and it wins admirers so much so that it makes it impossible to change. Its up to him, how does he want to learn... the hard way and show a reluctance to evolve as was the case with his predeccessor. Or will he show less arrogance, talk less and be more poker faced. Let others talk about your systems Roberto - stop trying to make out you are the pioneer, its putting pressure on you. Pride comes before a fall. Edited August 12, 2015 by Hafnia Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I do see a person with somewhat of a bit of a chip on his shoulder in Martinez - he has truly nailed his colours to the mast by being known as an advocat of pretty possession football. The more you harp on about possession the more of a hypocrite you will appear to be when you realise that its not always the answer. The problem with his system is when it works it looks awesome - and it wins admirers so much so that it makes it impossible to change. Its up to him, how does he want to learn... the hard way and show a reluctance to evolve as was the case with his predeccessor. Or will he show less arrogance, talk less and be more poker faced. Let others talk about your systems Roberto - stop trying to make out you are the pioneer, its putting pressure on you. Pride comes before a fall. Personally, I think he's even more stubborn / arrogant / Alpha male than Moyes by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 It's so obvious that the players need a boost. I haven't seen any evidence that this manager can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 No. And our style of play has evolved somewhat from the first season. We are more direct, still possession based, but more direct. Check the stats. Realistically, see how we are at the end of September. Then I might have a rethink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethinO Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) I've voted no because he has a few months to convince me before I go to the 'yes' option. Regarding his appearance on MNF the other night a few things did alarm me. First of all, he seemed to justify Carragher's point about Utd's risky formation in leaving themselves open at the back by saying "but they kept a clean sheet". He misunderstood what Carragher was saying as he pointed out against better opposition, especially in Europe, Utd will be caught out if they keep leaving their defenders in one v one situations. The fact that they kept a clean sheet was irrelevant as Carragher was trying to point out this will eventually cost them but Martinez's stubbornness came across there in his attitude being "so what they still kept a clean sheet". Secondly, when they went on to talk about set pieces, Martinez in a very sarcastic and mocking himself kind of way responded with "Ooh my speciality". I mean, come on, get a grip will you. Set pieces are very important, especially in the premier league, but as we kind of already knew that he doesn't pay much attention to them as our defending and attacking of set pieces since he's been our manager has been dreadful. May he should give more time to them on the training ground so that it does become a speciality! As I said, he's on thin ground with me. He said that in the premier league now you have to be flexible. The irony in him saying that statement was incredible. He has one philosophy and that's it. He is in no way a flexible manager as we saw last season. Got a lot of convincing to do between now and christmas. Edited August 12, 2015 by Geth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somuchfun Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 No, Martinez has until New Year to prove his worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I've voted no because he has a few months to convince me before I go to the 'yes' option. Regarding his appearance on MNF the other night a few things did alarm me. First of all, he seemed to justify Carragher's point about Utd's risky formation in leaving themselves open at the back by saying "but they kept a clean sheet". He misunderstood what Carragher was saying as he pointed out against better opposition, especially in Europe, Utd will be caught out if they keep leaving their defenders in one v one situations. The fact that they kept a clean sheet was irrelevant as Carragher was trying to point out this will eventually cost them but Martinez's stubbornness came across there in his attitude being "so what they still kept a clean sheet". Secondly, when they went on to talk about set pieces, Martinez in a very sarcastic and mocking himself kind of way responded with "Ooh my speciality". I mean, come on, get a grip will you. Set pieces are very important, especially in the premier league, but as we kind of already knew that he doesn't pay much attention to them as our defending and attacking of set pieces since he's been our manager has been dreadful. May he should give more time to them on the training ground so that it does become a speciality! As I said, he's on thin ground with me. He said that in the premier league now you have to be flexible. The irony in him saying that statement was incredible. He has one philosophy and that's it. He is in no way a flexible manager as we saw last season. Got a lot of convincing to do between now and christmas. forgot about this. it definately pisses me off. set pieces are great chances to score, especially with rom, jags, stones, barry, in the lineup, some big boys. just seems stupid to waste these chances no matter the stats and moneyball defense. the moyes team you always knew if we had come corner's at the end of the match we had a chance, now we might as well just give them the ball back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 yes, he ran out of ideas 18 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 yes, he ran out of ideas 18 months ago. 18 months ago we were challenging for 4th, so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Martinez himself said that in the first half the players were still in pre season mode. At the moment we have all the rumours about Stones which is undoubtedly going to unease the player. Then you've got Baines who is out as well which doesn't help. Gerry is injured but should be back for the trip to Southampton. This was one game against Watford and the start of the season. Arsenal lost 2-0 to West Ham does that mean they are going to have a rubbish season? No. We had to play a side that has just been promoted and out to prove a point straight away. We sat back and let them play their game, we weren't aggressive enough in our approach but that doesn't mean I want to get rid of Martinez. I don't want to be one of these clubs who don't stick with the manager. Simple answer no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Think Martinez did okay Saturday actually. His change for Barry to LB and Kone on effectively got us 2 goal and the 2 we let in where sloppy opening game goals. We are more direct then last year as well. I think he had adapted a bit and goes direct more now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) It's blatantly onvious by the young talent we're snapping up there's a 5 year plan (or thereabouts) in place. He's building for the future and that really pleases me the problem is can he keep us competative while he does this? Look at the bigger picture.. In 3-4 years IF we keep hold of them, Likaku, Stones, Garbutt,McCarthy, Barkley, Deulefeu are all going to be our senior pros then you have the likes of Browning, Galloway, Hollgate, Hennen etc all breaking through as first team regulars so we could have a fantastic team inthe future. Can we wait that long and can he keep the fans happy? I'm not so sure on that. Edited August 13, 2015 by Paddock Cornish Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) It's blatantly onvious by the young talent we're snapping up there's a 5 year plan (or thereabouts) in place. He's building for the future and that really pleases me the problem is can he keep us competative while he does this? Look at the bigger picture.. In 3-4 years IF we keep hold of them, Likaku, Stones, Garbutt,McCarthy, Barkley, Deulefeu are all going to be our senior pros then you have the likes of Browning, Galloway, Hollgate, Hennen etc all breaking through as first team regulars so we could have a fantastic team inthe future. Can we wait that long and can he keep the fans happy? I'm not so sure on that. Thats my concern. I've been patient all along because I knew it was going to take 3-5 years to put it in place, but he is so blinded by and desperate to implement his vision, that I'm not sure we'll survive in a good enough state for him to achieve it. If he could show a little flexibility, if he recognized that everything isn't phenomenal etc. I'd have a lot more patience. Just ignoring the issues of now because you're trying to sort something out in the future is just not good enough. Any project needs a sustain in parallel to the change management and cutover activities. It just seems that he's only interested in the latter 2 than all 3. I'm more calm that I was the other day, so changing my vote back to No. But the certainty I had in January (despite our shite play) has certainly taken a huge knock. Edited August 13, 2015 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Thats my concern. I've been patient all along because I knew it was going to take 3-5 years to put it in place, but he is so blinded by and desperate to implement his vision, that I'm not sure we'll survive in a good enough state for him to achieve it. If he could show a little flexibility, if he recognized that everything isn't phenomenal etc. I'd have a lot more patience. Just ignoring the issues of now because you're trying to sort something out in the future is just not good enough. Any project needs a sustain in parallel to the change management and cutover activities. It just seems that he's only interested in the latter 2 than all 3. I'm more calm that I was the other day, so changing my vote back to No. But the certainty I had in January (despite our shite play) has certainly taken a huge knock. I think the very last but of my patience with him hinges on these "3" he wants to bring in. If (and I know it's a big if) the board give him the money and he gets 3 proper first team players in I'll hold my breath and see how the season pans out. If after he has done that we are still regurgitating the same shit football and performances then he has to go. If he doesn't get the players he wants questions and blame needs to fall in the boards lap for me. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I think the very last but of my patience with him hinges on these "3" he wants to bring in. If (and I know it's a big if) the board give him the money and he gets 3 proper first team players in I'll hold my breath and see how the season pans out. If after he has done that we are still regurgitating the same shit football and performances then he has to go. If he doesn't get the players he wants questions and blame needs to fall in the boards lap for me. If he really is going for Spain 2008-2014, we're going to see exactly that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 If he really is going for Spain 2008-2014, we're going to see exactly that If he gets this 10 he wants of a high standard we'll see. i'd love him to turn it round and prove me wrong I really would. He is doing some things right by snapping up promising youth and he is intergrating them as much as possible in or around the first team. He's got a plan and I like the vision he has with youth, I like the way he steadfastly fights to keep the team together and I like the fact he recognises the team needs to stay together. There's so much he is doing that's right but he cannot carry on the way he is with his constant playing players out of position and playing the tacticts he is and not having any other ideas to change things around. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 So far, one game, he didn't play anyone out of position until he tried to shake things up in the second half. If he gets these three players, no one should need to play out of position, at least unless the squad gets hit by more injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 So far, one game, he didn't play anyone out of position until he tried to shake things up in the second half. If he gets these three players, no one should need to play out of position, at least unless the squad gets hit by more injuries. Exactly, that's why for me anyway, IF he gets them and we don't improve or nothing changes his number is up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I agree with that. For me, if Eddie Howe keeps Bournemouth up, still playing attacking football, he's the man. Chach and markjazzbassist 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 It's blatantly onvious by the young talent we're snapping up there's a 5 year plan (or thereabouts) in place. He's building for the future and that really pleases me the problem is can he keep us competative while he does this? Look at the bigger picture.. In 3-4 years IF we keep hold of them, Likaku, Stones, Garbutt,McCarthy, Barkley, Deulefeu are all going to be our senior pros then you have the likes of Browning, Galloway, Hollgate, Hennen etc all breaking through as first team regulars so we could have a fantastic team inthe future. Can we wait that long and can he keep the fans happy? I'm not so sure on that. spot on. the only thing he's missing is that he has to win enough in the meantime to keep his job, which is something he's not doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 18 months ago we were challenging for 4th, so....mr pedantic, we did not finish that season well and last season was crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I agree with that. For me, if Eddie Howe keeps Bournemouth up, still playing attacking football, he's the man. Bingo. English. Exciting and an Everton fan? Yes please. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 mr pedantic, we did not finish that season well and last season was crap Won 9, lost 3 from March 1st? Not that bad really.... Last season, I cannot (and wouldn't even bother) defend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Won 9, lost 3 from March 1st? Not that bad really.... Last season, I cannot (and wouldn't even bother) defend... we were hammered by Liverpool 4 - 0 we lost at home to Sunderland the pattern was there for all to see predictable we stumbled through games a blind man on a galloping horse could see what was coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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