Keith B Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I don't think Tim had his best day and he's clearly past his prime. But do we trust Joel? I certainly don't. We'll need to transfer someone in January if we want an upgrade but I'm not sure the club wants to spend money on a keeper. Hell the club is barely spending money on transfers at all. I think we are stuck with him until the summer when he moves to MLS. I disagree with Steve--7 of the next 10 are games that Everton should win. And the other three aren't schedule losses. We got through the tough stretch okay--not as good as it should have been but okay. Let's get Cleverly and Besic back, give our side some depth, and go on a nice little run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I don't think Tim had his best day and he's clearly past his prime. But do we trust Joel? I certainly don't. We'll need to transfer someone in January if we want an upgrade but I'm not sure the club wants to spend money on a keeper. Hell the club is barely spending money on transfers at all. I think we are stuck with him until the summer when he moves to MLS. I disagree with Steve--7 of the next 10 are games that Everton should win. And the other three aren't schedule losses. We got through the tough stretch okay--not as good as it should have been but okay. Let's get Cleverly and Besic back, give our side some depth, and go on a nice little run. I'm not sure Joel's the answer, we definitely need to be on the lookout for a new keeper, but Howard is costing us points game by game and has been for over a season now. And Joel showed last season that when given a few games, rather than just the odd game here and there, he calms down and doesn't look so anxious. Three clean sheets in a row wasn't it? Matt and Lowensda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Is it anything to do with his personal life being in the press? Either way he isn't good enough and his legs look very heavy. He's taking it very easy and in my opinion his best days are gone. He will have the occasional good game buy the defence have lost confidence in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Howard managed to dive under and away from the ball for both those goals. It's that bad it looks as if he's been cropped in them photos for a laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elston Gunnn Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Howard has a second gig, soon enough to be his day job, presumably. He does commentary for NBC Sports Network several times during the EPL season, including today's Manchester derby. I assume Robles will start Tuesday evening. RM's choice for keeper in next Sunday's match with Sunderland seems an open question right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 PS - I don't believe in this bullshit that the league is going to get easier starting next week. Other teams have great players who score goals and we will still have Howard, so any EFC fans that think we are going to cakewalk 6 wins in a row right now are seriously deluded or huffing paint, or possibly both. Howard is a liability at this point, as is our entire back line at times. We have some extremely talented players back there, but along with the great plays come the stupid fuck-ups, ESPECIALLY from set pieces. It's becoming an easy way to beat EFC. I truly hope I'm wrong. I think the next few games will show us whether or not we have learnt anything from last season. The problem last year wasn't how we played against the top sides, it was more of an issue when we played sides who just came and shut up shop. Lowensda, Romey 1878 and Elston Gunnn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 A tale of two halves. We were absolutely woeful in the first half. Our goalkeeper continued to show he's a complete liability by being at fault for both Arsenal goals. Our CB's were shambolic - with Jags having a hand in both of the goals too, and on a couple of occasions both he and Stones went for the same ball causing havoc. Only Galloway and Coleman looked like they knew how to defend. Apart from Deulofeu you wouldn't have even known we had a midfield out there because Barry and McCarthy got nowhere the Arsenal players for 45 minutes and Lennon was totally invisible. Barkley cut a frustrated figure, mostly frustration with himself though I thought because he seemed to lack sharpness. Lukaku would have needed a loudspeaker just to be able to communicate with his closes team mate. Whenever we did actually manage to get the ball we didn't look like we had any idea what to do with it, our lack of creativity was there for all to see. When Barkley isn't on it we have nothing, that's why it's criminal that we didn't get a creative midfielder in over the summer. You can't be relying on a 21 year old to do it every game. We just resorted to smacking the ball up field and hoping Lukaku could do something. But even if he could manage to get the ball what was he supposed to do with it when there was no support? It left me just praying we could get through to half time still on level terms and hoping Martinez could do something. Sadly that wasn't to be and we conceded the two very sloppy goals. It'd be interesting to see just how many goals we've conceded (and points we've lost) through our own doing. I did think that was game, set and match at that point if I'm honest. I just could not see how we could get back into the game. Fortunately we got a goal against the run of play right before half time on the counter attack. We were like a different team in the second half. We pressurised them and got much closer to them all over the pitch. Why we couldn't do that in the first half is beyond me, and it's unacceptable. We used the ball better, we looked capable of creating openings - we did create openings and could and should have got ourselves back level. And because we kept the ball better there weren't as many set-pieces getting put into our box so there wasn't quite so much panic in our defence. Jags going off actually helped us because Mori looked a lot more solid. Coleman in particular was a real terrier in his defensive effort. There was a massive improvement in McCarthy and, in particular, Barry. I know Barry got sent off but I thought he was brilliant in the second half. We got Deulofeu in the game more and he was a constant threat, and should have scored. Barkley was much better too and linked up really well with Rom and Geri. If those three really hit it off at some point this season a team is going to be on the end of a hammering. Sadly, that first half showing just left us with too much to do. We can't keep doing it all season; having to rescue things. We need to find some consistency and it needs to happen fast, because any side can beat any other side in this league and if you're not on it for 45 minutes then you will be punished. We've got to put full 90 minutes together, and if we do we'll pile the points up and see most sides off. Howard - Another game where he costs us goals. He wasn't the only culprit in the clusterfuck that was our defending though so he's not on his own. But it really is getting beyond a joke now and a new first choice goalkeeper needs to be an absolute priority. We can't go into games knowing we more than likely need to score at least 2 to win the game. Every time the ball goes into our box from a corner or a free-kick I'm fully expecting pandemonium and that there's a very good chance we'll concede. Yes the defence panic but I think a lot of that is down to having no trust in the goalkeeper behind them. Coleman - There's still a lot missing from his attacking play for me, he just doesn't seem to be as sharp or as positive. But, I thought he put an excellent shift in for the defensive side of his game. Especially in the second half when he was snapping at Arsenal players whenever they had the ball, either pushing them back or taking the ball from them. Jagielka and Stones - They were like the Chuckle Brothers, and not for the first time this season either! There just didn't seem to be any sort of communication between them as partnership. Jagielka, in particular, had a nightmare. It was actually a bit of relief when Jags had to go off, because Mori provided much more solidity back there. Not so good that it looks like being a long-term injury for him though! Galloway - Pretty much the only positive I could take out of the first half. He showed the desire and energy that was lacking in the majority of our side. His willingness to get up and down the touchline was commendable. He does not give up and you couldn't fault his effort. You could also see that he truly wanted to go out there and win that game, and I just wish that a few more of our players had that same attitude. As I've said elsewhere though, he did get caught the wrong side of his man a bit too often. We could have been punished because of that a few times but he either recovered the situation (something he also often does) or someone else came to the rescue. Deulofeu - He was another player that looked like he really wanted to win yesterday. Sometimes that was to his detriment though and he tried too hard at times, meaning his decision making suffered - instead of just whipping the ball in he'd try too many step overs or run into his man. But he was carrying us for a lot of the game, and I thought he carried that burden well for the most part. He was our main (only?) avenue of creativity and did end up being responsible for the creation of our goal, and should have grabbed the equaliser. However, his diving and making more of challenges than there really is is something that he needs to cut out of his game. He doesn't need to do it. He still gets my MOTM vote though. McCarthy and Barry - Both of them were utterly pointless in the first half. Neither one shielded the defence or got anywhere near the attacking midfielders. They just had free reign to do whatever the fuck they liked. They were both much in the second half, however, and got into the Arsenal players much more, pushing them back. I was really pleased with Barry in particular tbh. We all know he's not the most mobile of players but he's good at positioning himself well and that's what he did during the second half, snuffing things out just by being in the right place. I thought both yellow cards he picked up were harsh, but having a game off should do him good. Lennon - Can we convince him he's actually only on loan here again? Because he's not showed anything approaching what he did last season. He was like the invisible man last night. It's hard to pinpoint something he did badly because it was just like he wasn't there. I was pleased before the game when I saw that we were playing with two wingers but it transpired we were still playing with just the one winger after all! Barkley - I've criticised him the past few games for his lack of effort but there was a big improvement in that respect from him yesterday. His problem in yesterday's game was frustration; with himself and with the way the whole side was playing. With himself because he just wasn't quite sharp enough in his own play, he gave the ball away a couple of times and miscontrolled balls and you could see him visibly pissed off with himself. But as the game wore on his game improved and he was looking more of a threat. And of course he scored our goal. It may have come from a deflection but if you don't shoot then you don't score. Lukaku - It wasn't the robust performance we got from him in the previous two games but I can't fault his effort in the face of what must have been total frustration with a lack of service and support. He could have sulked and thought "fuck you", but he didn't. He still chased what were lost causes, still went up for headers he had no chance of winning and still always tried to put himself in positions to help the team. I do feel he should have scored from that header late on though. That's the only criticism I have of him yesterday. pete0 and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I think the next few games will show us whether or not we have learnt anything from last season. The problem last year wasn't how we played against the top sides, it was more of an issue when we played sides who just came and shut up shop. Spot on dunc I feel the same way. We play to the level of opposition sadly we don't steam roll the minnows and we need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 The fact that you missed the defending and o ly concentrated on the keeper is what does it. You played academy football and didn't make it? So you weren't good enough eh! Never mind. Get over yourself lad. please don't call me lad. The fact is I'm merely saying that I have played football to a high standard which means I do know a bit about football. After reading the papers and most posts on our websites it seems you are in the minority about blaming Howard for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 please don't call me lad. The fact is I'm merely saying that I have played football to a high standard which means I do know a bit about football. After reading the papers and most posts on our websites it seems you are in the minority about blaming Howard for anything. Playing at a decent standard does not make you knowledgeable about football and I thought it was a very naive comment to make...so I called it. It seems o am in the minority, but I am strong enough to stand by my beliefs and accept that. Whether others agree or not I thought the defence was shite in conceding those goals... Tim was not solely responsible for me. To single him out where two defenders let a forward run in-between them for a free header is criminal for me. Our whole defence was shambolic for both goals....and where does our captain play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/echo-readers-say-tim-howard-10329244 Let's see if Martinez falls in the 86% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 When Barkley isn't on it we have nothing, that's why it's criminal that we didn't get a creative midfielder in over the summer. You can't be relying on a 21 year old to do it every game. Cleverley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/echo-readers-say-tim-howard-10329244 Let's see if Martinez falls in the 86% That says 14% agree with me ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Cleverley? He's not a creative midfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Howard sucks right now, Joel is worse. Joel is not and never will be the solution. Howard has to play until another gk is bought. Im an american and im ready for howard to be replaced...but never by Joel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Howard sucks right now, Joel is worse. Joel is not and never will be the solution. Howard has to play until another gk is bought. Im an american and im ready for howard to be replaced...but never by Joel. What has being american got to do with it? I don't care what country he's from - if you ain't good enough you ain't good enough. I would like to point out that last year when Howard was out Robles gave our defence far more confidence - he played better in those games than many would have expected - based on those appearances he's good enough - he needs a consistent run. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Howard sucks right now, Joel is worse. Joel is not and never will be the solution. Howard has to play until another gk is bought. Im an american and im ready for howard to be replaced...but never by Joel. I don't get this. Joel did an admirable job stepping in last season. He was voted MotM at least once in that run of games. markjazzbassist and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 I don't get this. Joel did an admirable job stepping in last season. He was voted MotM at least once in that run of games. agreed plus HE WON THE FA CUP, the guy is not bad, he just needs a run like any player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 agreed plus HE WON THE FA CUP, the guy is not bad, he just needs a run like any player. Not by himself though . Couple of cracking saves I seem to remember it has to be said. I'm coming round to the, "give him a run to see what he can do" camp. Sorry Taliban Tim, love you and all that but Saturday was a step too far; or more accurately a few steps too little. markjazzbassist and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Playing at a decent standard does not make you knowledgeable about football and I thought it was a very naive comment to make...so I called it. It seems o am in the minority, but I am strong enough to stand by my beliefs and accept that. Whether others agree or not I thought the defence was shite in conceding those goals... Tim was not solely responsible for me. To single him out where two defenders let a forward run in-between them for a free header is criminal for me. Our whole defence was shambolic for both goals....and where does our captain play? fair play shakes I agree the whole defence goalkeeper included were at fault. I was fuming with Howard after it though. Mates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 fair play shakes I agree the whole defence goalkeeper included were at fault. I was fuming with Howard after it though. Mates? Course mate. Ignore me, sometimes frustration gets the better of me and I act like prick haha. I don't know why because I'm really not like that in real life. I do think that way too much focus is on Tim at the moment and it is hiding the fact that our defense has been poor recently. Stones awful for the second. Jags was awful for both. But there is substance to the point that Tom doesn't command his lines...but this isn't new and his defence shouldn't need telling this. I'm just worried that Robles isn't the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 What has being american got to do with it? I don't care what country he's from - if you ain't good enough you ain't good enough. I would like to point out that last year when Howard was out Robles gave our defence far more confidence - he played better in those games than many would have expected - based on those appearances he's good enough - he needs a consistent run. Sentiment I guess. On the topic of Joel... His first few outings were nervy and he looked young and naive. His second spell he looked miles better than Howard and had a run of 3 clean sheets after heroics in the West Ham cup game. I don't get why people want to write him off, maybe because he came from a relegated side and isn't perfect, but the lad deserves a run and deserved to stay in the team last winter. Roberto completely mismanaged that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Myself it's because I didn't think he performed heroics but rather made some good saves. There were also a few moments that he got away with, but were still questionable desicions. But as people have said....he needs a run if games to build up that consistency and confidence. I would be OK with seeing him have a good run of games...but would like to see us scouring the market looking for a long term replacement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 What has being american got to do with it? I don't care what country he's from - if you ain't good enough you ain't good enough. I would like to point out that last year when Howard was out Robles gave our defence far more confidence - he played better in those games than many would have expected - based on those appearances he's good enough - he needs a consistent run. Time to put this consistent run into action. If Howard starts next game then Martinez wants a slap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard's way Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 With that midfield and defence I don't care who we put between the sticks, we'll get battered anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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