US Politics/Biden Presidency (Trump-free zone)

[markjazzbassist]

once that 1 trillion infrastructure bill gets passed and the potholes/broken bridges are repaired, and people get their free internet, no one will care about afghanistan (rightly or wrongly).  he's done this stratigically so it will be erased in a news cycle by that passing, and the budget which includes a ton of money for other stuff (child tax credit permanence being one) as well.  those will dwarf this.  every president has a military fuckup, sadly it's part of the US makeup to play GI-Joe.  it won't define him.  

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

thing is palfy polls show majority of americans want us out of there, even after this fiasco.  they don't care, they think we need to fix the issues in our country first.  he is doing the will of the people.  might not be pretty, but it's what WE want.

I’m  not disagreeing that most Americans wanted to withdraw from Afghanistan but in an orderly negotiated fashion surely, we have seen polls from America were by memory 56 or 58% of Americans aren’t happy by what’s unfolded, they may have wanted a way out but what they didn’t want was to pull the ladder up and leave Afghani's to what could be a fate worse than death for many, also Biden’s ratings have dropped due to his handling of the withdrawal, my problem isn’t with the people of the USA like us you have political leaders who can’t run a bath properly never mind a country. I understand you want America to just look after America and no one else, but wasn’t that what America was doing by being there, what’s transpired now is that you’ve sent Afghanistan back 20 years and your security to attacks from Islamic fundamentalists have gone the same way. 

[Ghoat]

3 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

once that 1 trillion infrastructure bill gets passed and the potholes/broken bridges are repaired, and people get their free internet, no one will care about afghanistan (rightly or wrongly).  he's done this stratigically so it will be erased in a news cycle by that passing, and the budget which includes a ton of money for other stuff (child tax credit permanence being one) as well.  those will dwarf this.  every president has a military fuckup, sadly it's part of the US makeup to play GI-Joe.  it won't define him.  

Most of the stuff in that bill will takes years to see the fruits of - lots of very needed things - but they are not things that are quick projects or immediate fixes. And it may quickly get "lost" in the noise of the brawl in the form of $3.5T that the democrats are trying to get pushed thru. 

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

 my problem isn’t with the people of the USA like us you have political leaders who can’t run a bath properly never mind a country.  

Gold, Jerry, gold! 

[markjazzbassist]

20 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

Most of the stuff in that bill will takes years to see the fruits of - lots of very needed things - but they are not things that are quick projects or immediate fixes. And it may quickly get "lost" in the noise of the brawl in the form of $3.5T that the democrats are trying to get pushed thru. 

Gold, Jerry, gold! 

there was a so called "brawl" when trump was in with him battling mitch and co to pass the budget as well, no one cared once it was passed.  win is a win.

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

thing is palfy polls show majority of americans want us out of there, even after this fiasco.  they don't care, they think we need to fix the issues in our country first.  he is doing the will of the people.  might not be pretty, but it's what WE want.

What are your thoughts on South Korea and Americans as a whole about the money you have been spending there for over 70 years, it makes what you have spent in Afghanistan look like a spit in the ocean, only ask you because you are more concerned about the cost of the Afghan war to America than the what happens to the people and country after the failed withdrawal, and please don’t take this as a personal attack I just want to know why Korea doesn’t get a mention when talking about spending money on US military in other countries. 

[Sibdane]

14 minutes ago, Palfy said:

What are your thoughts on South Korea and Americans as a whole about the money you have been spending there for over 70 years, it makes what you have spent in Afghanistan look like a spit in the ocean, only ask you because you are more concerned about the cost of the Afghan war to America than the what happens to the people and country after the failed withdrawal, and please don’t take this as a personal attack I just want to know why Korea doesn’t get a mention when talking about spending money on US military in other countries. 

We also get a lot of benefit in our relationship with South Korea -- they're one of our largest trading partners. 

[markjazzbassist]

16 minutes ago, Palfy said:

What are your thoughts on South Korea and Americans as a whole about the money you have been spending there for over 70 years, it makes what you have spent in Afghanistan look like a spit in the ocean, only ask you because you are more concerned about the cost of the Afghan war to America than the what happens to the people and country after the failed withdrawal, and please don’t take this as a personal attack I just want to know why Korea doesn’t get a mention when talking about spending money on US military in other countries. 

south korea is one of our largest trading partners and allies.  they have a robust economy and produce a lot of electronics and tech.  the only thing Afghanistan was exporting to the US was heroin.  My wife taught English in South Korea and lived there, she loved the country and the people.  We eat their cuisine regularly as my wife prepares it or we go to a Korean restaurant.  I would say most americans think very favorably of South Korea just like they do Japan.  Products made in Japan or South Korea are thought of highly in terms of quality.

 

edit:  there are a lot of immigrants from south korea as well, in LA there is koreatown which is a massive area which a lot of them live.  i used to live near there and it was wild, for blocks and blocks of the city, signs, billboards, everythign was in korean, you all of a sudden were transported to another country.  wild.  great food.  had some wonderful korean friends when we lived in LA.  

[Ghoat]

1 hour ago, Sibdane said:

We also get a lot of benefit in our relationship with South Korea -- they're one of our largest trading partners. 

One very small local example for those in my part of the country. In 2004 Hyundai built it's only US assembly plant in Montgomery, AL. This past month they assembled their 5 millionth vehicle. 65 Suppliers also moved into Alabama (as in were not here prior to the plant.) The annual economic impact is estimated at $5B per year in Alabama. In 2009, Kia (Hyundai is their parent company) opened their only US assembly plant in West Point, GA. 5 Miles from the Alabama state line, and 95 miles from the Hyundai plant. That has a little over $4B economic impact, with over a a billion of it to Alabama, as many of the suppliers are in Alabama, sitting between the 2 plants.  That's almost $100B that Korean industry has impacted just Alabama in less than two decades. Now they may jam up the golf course a little, but it's a small price to pay, and we have a lot of great Korean restaurants!

 

Strategically it's also a great place to keep an eye on the largest most aggressive communist government in the world, not to mention their crazy ass little cousin. If we bailed out of Korea with the speed we did Afghanistan, I bet within days (if they got approval from China) Seoul would be in ruins and the DMZ would be overrun, at a much higher cost to the world. 

[MikeO]

He-who-shall-not-be-named lawyers sent for "legal education"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58344982

[Palfy]

I’ve got to say this I feel so enraged with what’s happened and happening in Afghanistan, due to the fucked up American withdrawal, for the many innocent civilians that have been killed and yet to be killed by the Taliban, the many US servicemen killed and injured at the airport, the many beautiful innocent children killed by a failed American reprisal made in anger and to help Biden get out of jail because of the American lives lost. 
The American government and its forces advisers are fucking useless bunch of cunts who shouldn’t be allowed to make decisions they are incompetent to make decisions on. As a white British citizen I hate them with a passion they are murderers in my eyes no excuses, I can’t help thinking if I feel this way what are the parents of innocent children feeling.  

[dunlopp9987]

The GOP has gone full dystopian autocratic. As always, I would say I'm shocked, but this is par for the course.

[MikeO]

11 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

The GOP has gone full dystopian autocratic. As always, I would say I'm shocked, but this is par for the course.

Just when you thought people could sink no lower.

[Chach]

What am I missing here, the headline doesn't fit the actual quote?

 

G.O.P. Declares Jan. 6 Attack ‘Legitimate Political Discourse’

"They chose to join Nancy Pelosi in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens who engaged in legitimate political discourse that had nothing to do with violence at the Capitol.”

 

Edit: Got it, the censure resolution omitted the distinction. 

[dunlopp9987]

13 hours ago, Chach said:

What am I missing here, the headline doesn't fit the actual quote?

 

G.O.P. Declares Jan. 6 Attack ‘Legitimate Political Discourse’

"They chose to join Nancy Pelosi in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens who engaged in legitimate political discourse that had nothing to do with violence at the Capitol.”

 

Edit: Got it, the censure resolution omitted the distinction. 

It's the fact that they are calling what happened on Jan 6th "legitimate political discourse." 

And yet they sling every imaginable insult at protests against police brutality against Black people. 

It's just gone past the point of believability.

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

It's the fact that they are calling what happened on Jan 6th "legitimate political discourse." 

And yet they sling every imaginable insult at protests against police brutality against Black people. 

It's just gone past the point of believability.

This is the Republicans opening the way for Trump to return as their presidential candidate, but first they need to try and legitimise all his evil wrongs as legitimate political discourse, only in America would a country that enjoys freedom of speech would this happen. 

[Chach]

14 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

It's the fact that they are calling what happened on Jan 6th "legitimate political discourse." 

And yet they sling every imaginable insult at protests against police brutality against Black people. 

It's just gone past the point of believability.

This is part of the problem though isn't, the way the way things are reported.

Showing up January 6 to listen to an address, hold up a sign and demonstrate your dissatisfaction with an election outcome is legitimate political discourse, not everybody marched and stormed the capitol.

After an incident of police brutality showing up to a demonstration, holding up a sign and demonstrating your dissatisfaction with policing is legitimate political discourse, setting peoples businesses on fire and looting shops isn't but that never stopped Democrat leaders from excusing the anarchy so why would we expect the GOP to be any different?

[Matt]

30 minutes ago, Chach said:

This is part of the problem though isn't, the way the way things are reported.

Showing up January 6 to listen to an address, hold up a sign and demonstrate your dissatisfaction with an election outcome is legitimate political discourse, not everybody marched and stormed the capitol.

After an incident of police brutality showing up to a demonstration, holding up a sign and demonstrating your dissatisfaction with policing is legitimate political discourse, setting peoples businesses on fire and looting shops isn't but that never stopped Democrat leaders from excusing the anarchy so why would we expect the GOP to be any different?

So 2 wrongs make a right?

[Chach]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

So 2 wrongs make a right?

Where did I say that?

[Palfy]

15 minutes ago, Chach said:

This is part of the problem though isn't, the way the way things are reported.

Showing up January 6 to listen to an address, hold up a sign and demonstrate your dissatisfaction with an election outcome is legitimate political discourse, not everybody marched and stormed the capitol.

After an incident of police brutality showing up to a demonstration, holding up a sign and demonstrating your dissatisfaction with policing is legitimate political discourse, setting peoples businesses on fire and looting shops isn't but that never stopped Democrat leaders from excusing the anarchy so why would we expect the GOP to be any different?

The person holding the address was the President who couldn’t except he had lost the election, so he whipped up an already hostile mob and basically told them to attack the White House, you didn’t need a reporter to tell you what was happening you only had to listen to Trump and see the reaction of the mob, that isn’t legitimate political discourse, and using the rioting of the BLM protests shouldn’t be used as an any excuse to cover the President the Republican Party and it’s violent supporters, this is wholly a debate on one incident that occurred on Jan 6th and anything before or after is completely immaterial and especially BLM which should never have been mentioned in the same sentence, you make me wonder what your real agenda is in your views. 

[Chach]

5 minutes ago, Palfy said:

you make me wonder what your real agenda is in your views. 

It's called dialectic Palfy, people have been doing it for 1000's of years and it's how we made progress in our political discourse.

Mindless partisanship, the kind that you largely engage in is how we generally end up in wars.

[Palfy]

17 minutes ago, Chach said:

It's called dialectic Palfy, people have been doing it for 1000's of years and it's how we made progress in our political discourse.

Mindless partisanship, the kind that you largely engage in is how we generally end up in wars.

The type of dialect you are engaging in is what causes most wars, answer all the points I made, particularly the President in sighting the attack on the White House, and how journalists misrepresented what we heard and saw, and what has any incident before or after got to do with it bar Trump losing the election which started it all off. It isn’t legitimate political discourse no matter how much you try to muddy the waters. 
Just answer my questions instead of engaging in personal slurs, and how has what I said been mindless partisanship bar of course I disagree with your vailed attempts to some how legitimise what happened on Jan 6th

[Chach]

Dialect and dialectic are not the same thing, after you learn the difference and given time you should be able to work the rest out.

Godspeed.

[Palfy]

8 minutes ago, Chach said:

Dialect and dialectic are not the same thing, after you learn the difference and given time you should be able to work the rest out.

Godspeed.

So you have no answers to my questions I guessed you would not from your first response, again personal attacks are your defence, I’m happy with what I know when it comes to right from wrong, and I haven’t needed to swallow a dictionary convey that, you think you have the superiority over everyone because of words you use as if they set you on some higher plane, what you fail to grasp in your great wisdom is that this is not literary society site, so maybe you should move on and find pompous people like yourself to communicate with in the future. 
 

Good bye and good luck, fingers crossed  

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Chach said:

Where did I say that?

Didn't say you did. But you did say that GOP have done it, so I was asking for clarity. 

[dunlopp9987]

5 hours ago, Chach said:

This is part of the problem though isn't, the way the way things are reported.

Showing up January 6 to listen to an address, hold up a sign and demonstrate your dissatisfaction with an election outcome is legitimate political discourse, not everybody marched and stormed the capitol.

After an incident of police brutality showing up to a demonstration, holding up a sign and demonstrating your dissatisfaction with policing is legitimate political discourse, setting peoples businesses on fire and looting shops isn't but that never stopped Democrat leaders from excusing the anarchy so why would we expect the GOP to be any different?

Do you....do you really not see the difference here? On the one hand, protests and riots were happening because Black people are continuing to be murdered by the police in this country.

On the other hand, a bunch of white people rioted because they were angry that their candidate lost an election.

Do you not see this?

[Chach]

22 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

protests and riots were happening because Black people are continuing to be murdered by the police in this country.

To the original point, this is a framing that doesn't actually hold up to any scrutiny.

The evidence of racially motivated killings by the police in the US is rare as hens teeth yet you could be convinced that black people were being hunted in the streets from the way it is covered.

African Americans are disproportionately represented but are still far less by number because of demographics, what all the people shot have in common is they are almost always armed and threatening police.

There's a data base on the WaPo that records all the data that funnily enough was started after the Michael Brown shooting, an incident where a majority of people still believe that he had his hands in the air saying "don't shoot" when he was shot because that was the way it was covered.

[Cornish Steve]

On 05/02/2022 at 11:08, dunlopp9987 said:

The GOP has gone full dystopian autocratic. As always, I would say I'm shocked, but this is par for the course.

Sadly, I'm beginning to think that January 6 was America's Beer Hall putsch.

[Cornish Steve]

On 07/02/2022 at 04:52, Chach said:

It's called dialectic Palfy, people have been doing it for 1000's of years and it's how we made progress in our political discourse.

Mindless partisanship, the kind that you largely engage in is how we generally end up in wars.

No it's not. In this case, it was nothing short of attempted insurrection.

[Chach]

7 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

No it's not. In this case, it was nothing short of attempted insurrection.

You've misread the posts, I was referring to the discussion and Palfy's  claim that because I am drawing a comparison between the behaviour of the GOP and Democrat politicians that I must be a secret Nazi rather than someone who is simply interested in the truth of opinions.

[Cornish Steve]

5 minutes ago, Chach said:

You've misread the posts, I was referring to the discussion and Palfy's  claim that because I am drawing a comparison between the behaviour of the GOP and Democrat politicians that I must be a secret Nazi rather than someone who is simply interested in the truth of opinions.

Then I apologize for misunderstanding.