US Politics/Biden Presidency (Trump-free zone)

[Sibdane]

26 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Mind blowing this...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-46757179

Another woman in the university video is wearing a t-shirt with, "What will your legacy be?" on it. That's a question that a lot of Americans (along with billions of others Worldwide) need to be looking in the mirror and asking themselves at this point in history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=65&v=Qj2Xald7NYQ

Edit: Reading up on the lady I like her a lot!

 

Yep -- it's a pretty pathetic thing to latch onto in order to try and make a point that someone is disqualified for their job.

She rolls with the punches and seems an incredibly smart woman. We need younger representation like her in government, because right now its filled with old politicians who don't know anything about the modern society or embracing technology; that includes Republicans AND Democrats.

[markjazzbassist]

yeah she's the future of liberal-ish politics.  and yes the repubs followers are crazy for trying to attack her over every little thing.  yet another reason i hate social media and it's constant negativity

[Matt]

Won’t matter, the shutdown could last years according to Trump, unless he gets the money for the border wall

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Won’t matter, the shutdown could last years according to Trump, unless he gets the money for the border wall

He’s supposed to be some amazing negotiator.  He’s awful at it.  That comment is dumb by him, perfect sound bite for the next election.  Not to mention the onus lies on him, Congress already approved the bill and he said no since it didn’t have border wall money.  It’s all on him.

[StevO]

13 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah she's the future of liberal-ish politics.  and yes the repubs followers are crazy for trying to attack her over every little thing.  yet another reason i hate social media and it's constant negativity

Is that a sign they are scared of her? 

I think she’s very impressive from the few twitter clips I’ve seen of her. 

[Matt]

11 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

He’s supposed to be some amazing negotiator.  He’s awful at it.  That comment is dumb by him, perfect sound bite for the next election.  Not to mention the onus lies on him, Congress already approved the bill and he said no since it didn’t have border wall money.  It’s all on him.

Apparently it’s a national emergency and he’s going to try and bypass Congress. Wouldn’t that need approval from the Supreme Court? 

Tiptoeing closer to a dictatorship 

[markjazzbassist]

4 hours ago, StevO said:

Is that a sign they are scared of her? 

I think she’s very impressive from the few twitter clips I’ve seen of her. 

Oh yes they are scared of her, she’s young and has a bright future.  Yeah I’m impressed with her as well so far.

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Apparently it’s a national emergency and he’s going to try and bypass Congress. Wouldn’t that need approval from the Supreme Court? 

Tiptoeing closer to a dictatorship 

The Congress Repubs said they won’t go along with that.  If he does any “go around” to get the wall it will be taboo and be used against him that he doesn’t play by the rules etc etc next election.  His people know this and that’s why he threatens with it but they are telling him don’t do it.  It will backfire.

 

they are trying to make this wall thing a bigger issue than it is.  Throwing tear gas at people crossing the border, ripping kids from a families and separating them.  They are manufacturing a crisis of which they believe the wall is the solution.  None of this happened under other presidents (even republicans ones). 

 

If you read articles from people who work inside the White House (lower level employees and career civil aervants) who have leaked info you realize Trump is not a smart guy and is extremely impulsive.  He tried to invade Syria only for his secretary of defense and other military leaders to evade him until his mood blew over.  That is scary.

[Matt]

1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

Oh yes they are scared of her, she’s young and has a bright future.  Yeah I’m impressed with her as well so far.

The Congress Repubs said they won’t go along with that.  If he does any “go around” to get the wall it will be taboo and be used against him that he doesn’t play by the rules etc etc next election.  His people know this and that’s why he threatens with it but they are telling him don’t do it.  It will backfire.

 

they are trying to make this wall thing a bigger issue than it is.  Throwing tear gas at people crossing the border, ripping kids from a families and separating them.  They are manufacturing a crisis of which they believe the wall is the solution.  None of this happened under other presidents (even republicans ones). 

 

If you read articles from people who work inside the White House (lower level employees and career civil aervants) who have leaked info you realize Trump is not a smart guy and is extremely impulsive.  He tried to invade Syria only for his secretary of defense and other military leaders to evade him until his mood blew over.  That is scary.

“Doesn’t play by the rules” will be cocaine for those that voted for him “speaking his mind”. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ignores congress, does what he wants and blames the democrats for blocking him. Divide and conquer. I’d say his tactics are deviously brilliant, but honestly I don’t think he has that intelligence and it’s a clear sign of the president being a puppet to someone (like w Bush)

[Cornish Steve]

Among the people I know, I don't see any waning in their support of Trump whatsoever. If anything, they are even more fanatical in their support.

[Matt]

4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Among the people I know, I don't see any waning in their support of Trump whatsoever. If anything, they are even more fanatical in their support.

It’s what I see and hear too. I think there’d be a civil war before any waning in support. 

[markjazzbassist]

19 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Among the people I know, I don't see any waning in their support of Trump whatsoever. If anything, they are even more fanatical in their support.

I agree 100%

[Chach]

There's a huge sunk cost bias for Trump supporters, you don't spend two years supporting an abortion of a human like him and then swing because he's doing all the things he said he would do pre-election.

Democrats need to focus on finding new sheep so to speak, not trying to cut the horns off rams. If he gets another four years he could do irreparable damage.

[nyblue23]

On 01/01/2019 at 12:33, sibdane said:

I don't even think that's it... she's just an uninspiring candidate, and she's too far left to appeal to moderates. 

She’s too moderate to appeal to true leftists, too.

[Chach]

10 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

She’s too moderate to appeal to true leftists, too.

Not sure I would agree with that but for arguments sake, what would be the alternative for "true leftists" if Warren was the candidate?

Stay at home?

Yeah, that really worked out last time.

 

[nyblue23]

5 hours ago, Chach said:

Not sure I would agree with that but for arguments sake, what would be the alternative for "true leftists" if Warren was the candidate?

Stay at home?

Yeah, that really worked out last time.

 

To the first bit: https://www.politico.com/story/2010/08/is-warren-more-of-a-moderate-040609

To the second:

No of course not and what a jump to make. But as she’s the first Democrat of note to announce her candidacy, that’s not a position anyone is even close to assuming. I just tend to agree that she’s too polarizing to both sides (too progressive for moderates and too much of a capitalist for the far left) to have a truly viable candidacy.

It’ll be interesting to see how many of Booker, Biden, Gabbard, Harris, O’Rourke and Sanders decide to run, as I think all of them have a much better shot in a general election than Warren.

[Matt]

Didn’t trump win by capitalising on a polarised nation? It would only make things worse, no?

[Sibdane]

I think a more moderate candidate would be preferred in order to win the swing voters. "True leftists" will still vote for a Democrat regardless of if they're far enough left or not, as long as it's not Trump and the DNC doesn't screw up again (Hillary vs. Bernie). 

I've said O'Rourke is my early choice before. He reminds me the most Obama with his policy and charisma.

[Matt]

44 minutes ago, sibdane said:

I think a more moderate candidate would be preferred in order to win the swing voters. "True leftists" will still vote for a Democrat regardless of if they're far enough left or not, as long as it's not Trump and the DNC doesn't screw up again (Hillary vs. Bernie). 

I've said O'Rourke is my early choice before. He reminds me the most Obama with his policy and charisma.

Trouble is, as much as I liked him, Obama did estrange folk (that I know anyway). 

Its goin to be tough for whomever steps up, on both sides

[markjazzbassist]

i want a lefty because i'm not a moderate or repub.  i want a socialist.  i want the UK healthcare system, i want free college for my kids, i want a universal basic income for those that are in need.  i'm willing to be taxed to the high heavens for it all.  i believe in love and compassion.

[MikeO]

2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i want a lefty because i'm not a moderate or repub.  i want a socialist.  i want the UK healthcare system, i want free college for my kids, i want a universal basic income for those that are in need.  i'm willing to be taxed to the high heavens for it all.  i believe in love and compassion.

I hate the fact that those qualities mark you out as a "lefty" (as a derogatory term for many) in this day and age, it should be the norm in every developed country, we should be past the "haves" and "have nots" as there's plenty for everyone to live comfortably if systems were fair. Fiefdom, xenophobia and nationalism should have had their day but we seem to be ushering them back in all over the globe. Brazil the most recent example.

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i want a lefty because i'm not a moderate or repub.  i want a socialist.  i want the UK healthcare system, i want free college for my kids, i want a universal basic income for those that are in need.  i'm willing to be taxed to the high heavens for it all.  i believe in love and compassion.

Out of interest how would you feel if you had 1 kid and someone has 10 kids knowing that their family was 10 x the cost of yours and yet you were being taxed the same (assuming of the same modest income). 

Not trying to make a point of it or anything, just genuinly interested. In America you see more of the "true" cost of everything compared to over here so just interested to see what you (or any other Americans) think? 

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Out of interest how would you feel if you had 1 kid and someone has 10 kids knowing that their family was 10 x the cost of yours and yet you were being taxed the same (assuming of the same modest income). 

Not trying to make a point of it or anything, just genuinly interested. In America you see more of the "true" cost of everything compared to over here so just interested to see what you (or any other Americans) think? 

that wouldn't bother me.  i just want equality, when the haves are hoarding everything and getting lawmakers elected so they can have more and take more from the have nots that just doesn't jive with me.  i get that we can't all be rich.  i get that we can't all have the perfect life.  but you look at the scandinavian countries and they have high levels of happiness and also extremely high taxes, but there isn'tt the systematic poverty there is here in the states.  i understand its not perfect, but the crime rates, poverty rates, etc are WAY lower than here.  people may not have massive american mansions and 5 cars and massive possible upside to finance as in america, but living a simple life without the stress of are you going to eat, are you going to be able to have a place to sleep, etc is worth it to me.

 

caveat, i'm more on the minimalist side of living so i guess it's easier in a sense for a person like myself to not worry about being taxed and not having a lot so others can have more.

[Chach]

9 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i want a lefty because i'm not a moderate or repub.  i want a socialist.  i want the UK healthcare system, i want free college for my kids, i want a universal basic income for those that are in need.  i'm willing to be taxed to the high heavens for it all.  i believe in love and compassion.

You don't want a socialist surely you mean you want a democratic socialist?

If its the former you have no chance and that's probably for the best as I can't think of a single instance where the planned economy has actually worked, if you mean the latter and want something that closer to the Scando model then Warren would be a good start in that direction:

 

 

[Chach]

 

That's some next level delusion.

[markjazzbassist]

i watched the oval office announcement and i'm still just amazed that this buffon is our president.  what a country.

 

@Chach just because none of the socialist economies have worked doesn't mean it won't.  the democratic governments haven't exactly been the model for compassion and peace either.

[Chach]

17 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

just because none of the socialist economies have worked doesn't mean it won't

That's actually exactly what it means, that's why you run experiments and when they don't work you try again and improve on them. 

Socialism, Communism, Capitalism whatever, they are academic theories none of them are going to have all the answers to human/social flourishing we keep the bits that work and throw away what doesn't and they are refined over time.

Government does some things better, but not everything. Should you have a single payer universal healthcare system? of course you should but you can't move straight to it from where you are now. 

 

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, Chach said:

That's actually exactly what it means, that's why you run experiments and when they don't work you try again and improve on them. 

Socialism, Communism, Capitalism whatever, they are academic theories none of them are going to have all the answers to human/social flourishing we keep the bits that work and throw away what doesn't and they are refined over time.

Government does some things better, but not everything. Should you have a single payer universal healthcare system? of course you should but you can't move straight to it from where you are now. 

 

says who?  you?  ok, well everyone's got an opinion, if you think you got all the answers why don't you run for office?

[Chach]

6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

says who?  you?  ok, well everyone's got an opinion, if you think you got all the answers why don't you run for office?

That's an emotional reaction on the other end of the spectrum of the kind that gave your country Donald J Trump.

Engage in dialectic, have an actual argument. Play the ball, not the man.

[StevO]

I’m finding this thread really interesting lately. I’m a huge fan of the states, I’ve got family there and I tend to go at least once a year either with my wife or friends, I completely love the place. But at the same time it baffles me. 

I see people like Mark, who want the best for everyone, want a peaceful society where sick people recieve treatment and the poor get a helping hand to improve their lives and education for young people. This all seems perfectly rational to me, but then I see people like that get called communists and things like that, like it’s a bad thing. I understand the country is built on capitalism, though it’s crazy. I’ve driven through LA a few times and seen the houses of Beverley Hills just a few miles away from some of the worst poverty ever seen, I think you could do with a little bit of communism over there (only a little bit if the CIA are reading this, please don’t have my ESTA revoked, I need it for October’s trip). 

Even the gun laws shock me, after Sandy Hook I was watching on the news with my wife, it’s an absolutely shocking tragedy, but totally avoidable. I said to her they will do something now, so many kids murdered like that, the people will rise up against it. And then the shit about more guns would have stopped it, I was in even more shock that the NRA could come out with that. They talk about the constitution like it can’t be changed, it has to stay the same forever. No, times change, laws change, society changes, you can change your constitution if it was needed. 

Mrs Stevo works in mental health, so she’s always telling me your gun laws and lack of mental health care (coming from lack of health care) is a ticking time bomb, ready to go off daily. 

Was about to get started on police brutality towards blacks, but that just gets me really angry so I’ll leave it. 

We’ve often talked about emigrating, my parents and sister have said they would follow if we did. We even discussed it with my family in Florida last October. I have a distant relative who works alongside law enforcement, and I explained how we would just be a bit scared to take the jump while Trump is in power and the police shooting innocent people, his response; “Don’t worry, you guys are white. You’ll be fine!” I think that scared me just as much as the rest. 

[Chach]

14 hours ago, StevO said:

I see people like Mark, who want the best for everyone, want a peaceful society where sick people recieve treatment and the poor get a helping hand to improve their lives and education for young people. This all seems perfectly rational to me, but then I see people like that get called communists and things like that, like it’s a bad thing.

That's not actually what happened, Mark declared he wanted a Socialist candidate. Socialism in practice is just another form of authoritarianism as is/was communism which has time and time again actually proved itself to be a bad thing.