Matt Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46908205 meanwhile, other EU powerhouses collaborate to get stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 27 minutes ago, Matt said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46908205 meanwhile, other EU powerhouses collaborate to get stronger. I thought all the EU member states were supposed to be 'equal'. Why are two member states signing an agreement which doesn't involve the other 25? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, johnh said: I thought all the EU member states were supposed to be 'equal'. Why are two member states signing an agreement which doesn't involve the other 25? Nothing says you can’t define your own country rules provided you adhere to the general EU regulations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, johnh said: I thought all the EU member states were supposed to be 'equal'. Why are two member states signing an agreement which doesn't involve the other 25? Benelux sign agreements often too. You see, as sovereign countries they can do what they want . Chach and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 This, however, is inviting a foreign government to interfere with your sovereign parliament. MikeO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 31 minutes ago, holystove said: This, however, is inviting a foreign government to interfere with your sovereign parliament. Bloody foreigners i am trying to enjoy the irony that we’re so disorganised and incapable of sorting this mess ourself that we’ve gone to the Polish of all countries to help us get something done... markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, holystove said: Benelux sign agreements often too. You see, as sovereign countries they can do what they want . Like Greece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, johnh said: Like Greece. Like Britain too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-46961982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 54 minutes ago, johnh said: Like Greece. Yes like Greece. What's your point? Any country can make sovereign choices but it has to stand by the consequences of that choice. If it so whishes, noone can stop Greece from making the sovereign choice to leave the euro. MikeO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2019/01/22/breaking-former-downing-street-adviser-poses-as-plasterer-to-get-on-radio-brexit-debate/?fbclid=IwAR1ooQ4kM7HCFTUfnN8ZRQKBJLYgYOIvky1Fw3lwc1QDgOn-B7sSwzoiG8I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46968720 another company leaving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46971390 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 17 hours ago, holystove said: Yes like Greece. What's your point? Any country can make sovereign choices but it has to stand by the consequences of that choice. If it so whishes, noone can stop Greece from making the sovereign choice to leave the euro. Lets have a look at what Pierre Moscovici (EU Commissioner for Economic ad Financial Affairs) had to say about Greece. (2017) 'handling of Greece's bailout program was 'a scandal in terms of democratic processes......I am talking about the basic details of the life of a country which were decided in a body, behind closed doors, whose work is being prepared by technocrats without the minimum control of a parliament'. Yep! sounds just like sovereignty to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, johnh said: Lets have a look at what Pierre Moscovici (EU Commissioner for Economic ad Financial Affairs) had to say about Greece. (2017) 'handling of Greece's bailout program was 'a scandal in terms of democratic processes......I am talking about the basic details of the life of a country which were decided in a body, behind closed doors, whose work is being prepared by technocrats without the minimum control of a parliament'. Yep! sounds just like sovereignty to me. The bailout wasn't a sovereign choice, it was a decided necessity. Scandalous as it may have been, it has nothing to do with sovereignty or Greek democracy even Leaving the Euro would be their sovereign choice, as Bailey pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/23/for-the-eu-to-prosper-britain-must-leave Chach and holystove 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 15 hours ago, pete0 said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/23/for-the-eu-to-prosper-britain-must-leave Clear as day, and come back with tail between legs and a better attitude down the road. Admins, please change my vote to leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46984229 Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 59 minutes ago, Chach said: Clear as day, and come back with tail between legs and a better attitude down the road. Admins, please change my vote to leave Don’t you know you’re not allowed to change your mind? so we can’t change your vote, it’ll bring democracy on the forum to its knees! holystove, MikeO, pete0 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Touchè! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Matt said: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46984229 Good post - I work in aviation and saw this quote and was going to post it but you beat me to it! Aerospace is one of the few manufacturing industries where the UK (and the US...) still have a leading presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Matt said: Don’t you know you’re not allowed to change your mind? so we can’t change your vote, it’ll bring democracy on the forum to its knees! I don't recall any vote in our history being re-run because of 'change of mind'. There was one MP in the last General Election who won by 1 vote (after several recounts). The vote was accepted by the electorate. This re-run of voting idea is a brain child of the EU. There have been several referendums which have gone against the EU and all have been re-run. Not one of the referendums in favour of the EU have ever been re-run. We don't want EU 'democracy' anywhere near this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, Quinn31 said: Good post - I work in aviation and saw this quote and was going to post it but you beat me to it! Aerospace is one of the few manufacturing industries where the UK (and the US...) still have a leading presence. My brother works for Airbus (currently based in Germany but just back from a few months in Singapore) and he said to me a year or more ago that they'd be off. Brexiteers said companies were bluffing but he called it, roughly "you think we're bluffing, fucking watch this". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 hours ago, johnh said: I don't recall any vote in our history being re-run because of 'change of mind'. There was one MP in the last General Election who won by 1 vote (after several recounts). The vote was accepted by the electorate. This re-run of voting idea is a brain child of the EU. There have been several referendums which have gone against the EU and all have been re-run. Not one of the referendums in favour of the EU have ever been re-run. We don't want EU 'democracy' anywhere near this forum. Strawman, theres no suggestion that there should be a second vote because of a change of mind on Brexit per se, its because there has been a material change in what Brexit means and what the electorate now understand it to mean. We're 67 pages in, at least represent the arguments correctly Matt and Palfy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 13 hours ago, johnh said: I don't recall any vote in our history being re-run because of 'change of mind'. There was one MP in the last General Election who won by 1 vote (after several recounts). The vote was accepted by the electorate. This re-run of voting idea is a brain child of the EU. There have been several referendums which have gone against the EU and all have been re-run. Not one of the referendums in favour of the EU have ever been re-run. We don't want EU 'democracy' anywhere near this forum. You mean direct democracy? A much more sensible option to what the UK has. Im curious, John. Are you happy with the plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 14 hours ago, johnh said: This re-run of voting idea is a brain child of the EU. There have been several referendums which have gone against the EU and all have been re-run. Not one of the referendums in favour of the EU have ever been re-run. We don't want EU 'democracy' anywhere near this forum. Not really an EU competence that, John, .. forcing countries to organize referendums; let alone "re-run" them. Is this UK 'democracy'? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46971390 (Mogg proposes the Queen (!) shuts down Parliament to protect brexit) .. Though if you brought that to this forum, I don't know who would play the Queen. Matt, Palfy and Chach 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, holystove said: Not really an EU competence that, John, .. forcing countries to organize referendums; let alone "re-run" them. Is this UK 'democracy'? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46971390 (Mogg proposes the Queen (!) shuts down Parliament to protect brexit) .. Though if you brought that to this forum, I don't know who would play the Queen. That’s very clearly Louis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Matt said: That’s very clearly Louis He's the biggest queen I know, for sure. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Does seem like there needs to be an inordinate amount of legislation passed for anything to happen https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-already-been-cancelled-heres-13896286?fbclid=IwAR35yl-_liOjtLTJa5rndALDzgcautFQwV8TAI0Dy5HJcNdjo9FreNzBe2U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Chach said: Does seem like there needs to be an inordinate amount of legislation passed for anything to happen https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-already-been-cancelled-heres-13896286?fbclid=IwAR35yl-_liOjtLTJa5rndALDzgcautFQwV8TAI0Dy5HJcNdjo9FreNzBe2U There's that then all of the treaties, contracts etc. on top... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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