Matt Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, Palfy said: The DUP all voted for her they didn't want a general election in case they lost their seats who else has sided with her besides her own MPs. DUP doesn’t surprise me in the slightest, they’d lose more than just seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, Matt said: DUP doesn’t surprise me in the slightest, they’d lose more than just seats. Northern Ireland is still massively segregated along sectarian lines and there are still Protestant and Catholic areas (among "peace walls") so I don't think the DUP MP's were worried about losing their seats, they were worried only about losing the ridiculous power they've been given by propping up the Tory minority. Tories were the ones worried about losing their seats getting behind the ABC (anyone but Corbyn) movement. You know the irony? Corbyn wanted Brexit, May didn't; 80% of Labour voters want to stay in the EU but the vast majority still support Corbyn while his fellow MP's hate him. We're in a lose/lose/lose/lose situation at the moment and I really see no way out of it. May's party have voted for her tonight but they'll still be lining up to slag her off again tomorrow, I just give up. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, MikeO said: Northern Ireland is still massively segregated along sectarian lines and there are still Protestant and Catholic areas (among "peace walls") so I don't think the DUP MP's were worried about losing their seats, they were worried only about losing the ridiculous power they've been given by propping up the Tory minority. Tories were the ones worried about losing their seats getting behind the ABC (anyone but Corbyn) movement. You know the irony? Corbyn wanted Brexit, May didn't; 80% of Labour voters want to stay in the EU but the vast majority still support Corbyn while his fellow MP's hate him. We're in a lose/lose/lose/lose situation at the moment and I really see no way out of it. May's party have voted for her tonight but they'll still be lining up to slag her off again tomorrow, I just give up. the underlined is what i don't get. why don't his party just remove him as leader, they want remain, their constituents want remain, he doesn't, odd man out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just to add an extra cherry on top of the fucked up British political system cake, despite rightly bitching and moaning about not being involved when May does finally offer the chance of negotiating both Corbyn and Cable put down a pre-condition to any dialogue. May can now just say that she tried, speak to the smaller party leaders and probably come back with more or less the same deal on Monday. They are all a bunch of time wasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: the underlined is what i don't get. why don't his party just remove him as leader, they want remain, their constituents want remain, he doesn't, odd man out. The card carrying Labour members want Corbyn by a fairly decent margin, since 2015 its been a 1 member = 1 vote (previously an electoral college system) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 "The threat from Brussels is that the EU will shrug its shoulders and allow a disorderly Brexit, with substantial disruption to trade, transport, and so forth. But it is much more likely that German business, along with the French and Dutch governments, would be up in arms against such a turn, and demand that the European Commission use its powers indefinitely to suspend any disruption in Europe’s ports and airports while meaningful negotiations begin for the first time since 2016." This has been my long held suspicion, it can't and won't be one way disruption, it takes two to trade tango. Money talks and in the end bureaucracy will run a marathon. (I've been wrong before though :D) https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/path-forward-after-parliament-brexit-vote-by-yanis-varoufakis-2019-01?fbclid=IwAR33A84MIYqOzb2QzZMPSvpZZIHGM2F4mwqpDzJpJxwxUvUBVj6CGMdtsEQ Keen to hear from @holystove on the Norway plus option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Chach said: "The threat from Brussels is that the EU will shrug its shoulders and allow a disorderly Brexit, with substantial disruption to trade, transport, and so forth. But it is much more likely that German business, along with the French and Dutch governments, would be up in arms against such a turn, and demand that the European Commission use its powers indefinitely to suspend any disruption in Europe’s ports and airports while meaningful negotiations begin for the first time since 2016." This has been my long held suspicion, it can't and won't be one way disruption, it takes two to trade tango. Money talks and in the end bureaucracy will run a marathon. (I've been wrong before though :D) https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/path-forward-after-parliament-brexit-vote-by-yanis-varoufakis-2019-01?fbclid=IwAR33A84MIYqOzb2QzZMPSvpZZIHGM2F4mwqpDzJpJxwxUvUBVj6CGMdtsEQ Keen to hear from @holystove on the Norway plus option. The only way to be a 100% sure this will turn out like Greece 2015 is to start taking Varoufakis' advice How many times has the Brexit side said "any minute now, German car makers will intervene and force the EU to give us what we want". German car makers have consistently said the integrity of the Single Market is most important. Don't expect much from the "French and Dutch governments" either, as it is the member state governments that have decided the Commission should take a firm line. Norway plus option is fine, the political declaration allows for such a thing to be negotiated. As I have said before however, Canada +++ Norway ++ or whatever else, all require the Withdrawal Agreement to be ratified. The Withdrawal Agreement is the legal basis for the transition period, during which Canada or Norway or.. will be negotiated. Chach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 11 hours ago, Chach said: The card carrying Labour members want Corbyn by a fairly decent margin, since 2015 its been a 1 member = 1 vote (previously an electoral college system) if the majority want remain, how could they want corbyn? they're mutually exclusive in that respect, that's what i'm talking about. how can a labour voter want a guy who doesn't represent what they want? that seems very strange to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: if the majority want remain, how could they want corbyn? they're mutually exclusive in that respect, that's what i'm talking about. how can a labour voter want a guy who doesn't represent what they want? that seems very strange to me. As he's the only honest man in there who genuinely cares about the people rather than himself and keeping the fat cats happy. Over here the Conservatives have done the biggest brain wash since the church convincing/lying to the public to work for pittance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 hours ago, pete0 said: As he's the only honest man in there who genuinely cares about the people rather than himself and keeping the fat cats happy. Over here the Conservatives have done the biggest brain wash since the church convincing/lying to the public to work for pittance. He is not honest though is he? as much as I have voted labour in the past I can not vote for such a two faced terrorist supporting monster as Corbyn but everyone to their own I think. we all agree on one thing though Theresa May has fucked this up badly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, rubecula said: He is not honest though is he? as much as I have voted labour in the past I can not vote for such a two faced terrorist supporting monster as Corbyn but everyone to their own I think. we all agree on one thing though Theresa May has fucked this up badly Terrorist supporting monster? History shows otherwise https://goo.gl/images/v1kjFo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, pete0 said: Terrorist supporting monster? History shows otherwise https://goo.gl/images/v1kjFo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, rubecula said: He's a pacifist who's opposed every war we've gone into. Big difference between not wanting to fight than supporting terrorist. https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyn-on-northern-ireland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 everyone has their own opinion Pete so if you and I disagree on the man or his policies then that is ok with me, I will admit that I could never vote for labour while he is in charge though, but no way will I ever vote tory no matter who is in charge. I may be a little out of touch but I am not a bloody idiot. at least I don't think I am. but everyone else might disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, rubecula said: He "attacked the governments Ulster policy and said that troops should be pulled out of the province". What happened next? We talked to the IRA, brokered a peace and took the troops out. Not defending the IRA for a moment, or indeed the unionist extremists on the other side (the people currently propping up Mrs May, leader of the party who called Nelson Mandela a terrorist) but one man's terrorist is another one's freedom fighter. pete0, Matt and rubecula 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 thanks mike I think you explained better than me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 minute ago, rubecula said: thanks mike I think you explained better than me +1, was just about to type similar. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Ffs. People voting based on a figurehead piss me off. Sorry Rubes, but it’s just ridiculous and leads to Trumps and Mays. Vote for the parties policies, it’s not a dictatorship! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Matt said: Ffs. People voting based on a figurehead piss me off. Sorry Rubes, but it’s just ridiculous and leads to Trumps and Mays. Vote for the parties policies, it’s not a dictatorship! but it is apparently. labour is majority remain, but figure head is Leave, so they are leave. sounds like he's dictating regardless of constituents to me! holystove and rubecula 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 3 hours ago, pete0 said: As he's the only honest man in there who genuinely cares about the people rather than himself and keeping the fat cats happy. Over here the Conservatives have done the biggest brain wash since the church convincing/lying to the public to work for pittance. I needed a good laugh, thanks Pete0. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Matt said: Ffs. People voting based on a figurehead piss me off. Sorry Rubes, but it’s just ridiculous and leads to Trumps and Mays. Vote for the parties policies, it’s not a dictatorship! I do not vote for a figurehead never have and never will. but also I will avoid voting for a party with a figurehead that I can not stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: but it is apparently. labour is majority remain, but figure head is Leave, so they are leave. sounds like he's dictating regardless of constituents to me! It's a nutjob, this sums it up quite well... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/22/remainers-condemn-jeremy-corbyn-pledge-to-push-on-with-brexit The Scottish National party also rebuked Corbyn, with the party’s Westminster leader, Ian Blackford, calling him “the midwife to the delivery of the [Tories’] Brexit plans”. “Jeremy Corbyn has finally come off the fence he’s been sat on for the past two years,” he said. “But unfathomably he’s come down on the same side as Theresa May. The Labour party is incapable of providing opposition to the worst UK government that most people can remember.” The Liberal Democrat leader, Vince Cable, added that Corbyn “refuses once again to take the blinkers off”, with the party’s policy indistinguishable from the Conservatives’. “He is ignoring the concerns of his own supporters and the economic damage experts warn Brexit will do to the UK economy,” he said. “On Brexit, you simply cannot put a cigarette paper between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.” The only hope appears to be the minority parties, but they are (obviously) in a minority. Labour members support Corbyn for many reasons (most of which I agree with) so the Brexit stance is just one of many policies they take into account, he should be taking his members opinions into account on this as they're so loyal to him in general but this is the defining decision for our future right now and he's wimped out on it so far. rubecula, holystove, nyblue23 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 I think that Corbyn has always been a Brexiteer if the truth be known, that's why he doesn't advocate a 2nd referendum and in a lot of the areas where Labour hold the seat the votes went with Brexit, even though a majority of his MP's want another referendum he will always find the safety of saying no because your constituents voted for out in the main, they can't win and he can't lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, MikeO said: It's a nutjob, this sums it up quite well... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/22/remainers-condemn-jeremy-corbyn-pledge-to-push-on-with-brexit The Scottish National party also rebuked Corbyn, with the party’s Westminster leader, Ian Blackford, calling him “the midwife to the delivery of the [Tories’] Brexit plans”. “Jeremy Corbyn has finally come off the fence he’s been sat on for the past two years,” he said. “But unfathomably he’s come down on the same side as Theresa May. The Labour party is incapable of providing opposition to the worst UK government that most people can remember.” The Liberal Democrat leader, Vince Cable, added that Corbyn “refuses once again to take the blinkers off”, with the party’s policy indistinguishable from the Conservatives’. “He is ignoring the concerns of his own supporters and the economic damage experts warn Brexit will do to the UK economy,” he said. “On Brexit, you simply cannot put a cigarette paper between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.” The only hope appears to be the minority parties, but they are (obviously) in a minority. Labour members support Corbyn for many reasons (most of which I agree with) so the Brexit stance is just one of many policies they take into account, he should be taking his members opinions into account on this as they're so loyal to him in general but this is the defining decision for our future right now and he's wimped out on it so far. and that is the main reason that I will not vote labour while the moron is in charge, sorry but there it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Palfy said: I think that Corbyn has always been a Brexiteer if the truth be known, that's why he doesn't advocate a 2nd referendum and in a lot of the areas where Labour hold the seat the votes went with Brexit, even though a majority of his MP's want another referendum he will always find the safety of saying no because your constituents voted for out in the main, they can't win and he can't lose. if he is a brexiteer he is a bit of a coward in my book as if he had the balls the prime minister has he would go against his own feelings and go for remain, paradoxically if he went for a second referendum he would be undemocratic too so he would be shafted if he went down that road too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, rubecula said: if he is a brexiteer he is a bit of a coward in my book as if he had the balls the prime minister has he would go against his own feelings and go for remain, paradoxically if he went for a second referendum he would be undemocratic too so he would be shafted if he went down that road too. We are in a massive deadlock at the moment, as a remainer I've resigned myself to leaving, now we can only concentrate on getting the right deal and move on with a heavy heart. And Rubes you won't get the Brexit you thought you were voting for and I won't get the remain I wanted we will both be in a halfway house only time will tell if it works. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Palfy said: We are in a massive deadlock at the moment, as a remainer I've resigned myself to leaving, now we can only concentrate on getting the right deal and move on with a heavy heart. And Rubes you won't get the Brexit you thought you were voting for and I won't get the remain I wanted we will both be in a halfway house only time will tell if it works. I have already resigned myself to this scenario Palfy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 10 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: if the majority want remain, how could they want corbyn? they're mutually exclusive in that respect, that's what i'm talking about. how can a labour voter want a guy who doesn't represent what they want? that seems very strange to me. The 80% I assume are traditional voters, they may not necessarily be paid up members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 Matt, rubecula, pete0 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 6 hours ago, MikeO said: We should be so lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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