Matt Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50079385 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Matt said: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50079385 May also got her deal agreed with the EU. Key question is, will it pass the House of Commons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, holystove said: May also got her deal agreed with the EU. Key question is, will it pass the House of Commons? Considering the Conservatives don’t have a majority, and are propped up by the DUP who say they’re against it, it’s unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 I thought this was very funny (from the NYT): https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/17/opinion/brexit-what-comes-next.html Matt and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Formby said: I thought this was very funny (from the NYT): https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/17/opinion/brexit-what-comes-next.html Brilliant that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 MikeO, Matt and StevO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: Hilarious that Boris has been using language such as "Surrender Act" and has gone ahead with some sort of deal that is 95% Theresa May's deal. This is a terrible deal and will leave us as a vassal state. My feelings on the EU have always been that we have sat on the fence with them, neither committing fully nor walking away. Boris' "deal is akin to staying sat on the fence but turning the other way with our backs to Europe. This is not what leavers want, this is not what remainers want. In fact I would rather go all in with Europe, Euro currency and all, than to take this deal. At least we would know where we stood and would have full veto power and clout within the community. Exactly why all this discussion/negotiation should've taken place before the referendum was held, so people had a clue what they were voting for. The vote in parliament tomorrow is on a knife edge, it's going to be a huge day however the chips fall, I'd be fascinated if it was happening in another country; as it's happening to us I'm a little bit terrified. pete0, StevO and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 17 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: Hilarious that Boris has been using language such as "Surrender Act" and has gone ahead with some sort of deal that is 95% Theresa May's deal. This is a terrible deal and will leave us as a vassal state. My feelings on the EU have always been that we have sat on the fence with them, neither committing fully nor walking away. Boris' "deal is akin to staying sat on the fence but turning the other way with our backs to Europe. This is not what leavers want, this is not what remainers want. In fact I would rather go all in with Europe, Euro currency and all, than to take this deal. At least we would know where we stood and would have full veto power and clout within the community. Don’t mean to be rude mate, but you’ve no idea what Leave voters wanted purely because there was no idea as to what it meant. This was always going to happen without a plan before the vote. id be right with you on the E.U. all in deal though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 7 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said: I'm a leave voter pal so I speak from my own experiences. I've explained previously my thoughts on Brexit and how it has been an accumulation of the financial crisis in 2008 and through the refugee crisis of Libya and Syria. I speak as a working class leave voter and believe that I can gauge the principles of this group, as much as the chattering classes like to slander us as racists, it is that we fundamentally believe that mass migration is a tool for the global elites to drive down our negotiating power by flooding the market with surplus labour. It's no surprise that zero hour contracts have coincided with mass migration for example. It's nothing to do with race or any other thing, it's a numbers game and always has been. You're either rich or poor now and there is no inbetween. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. If you can't afford to lose your job then you are poor. Deal with it and don't get distracted with the myriad of side issues that are conveniently presented to us. That’s kind of my point - from your experience. But that has been proven on here and in general; the definition of Leave has varied person to person. That’s all I was getting at, it wasn’t meant as a dig or anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50083026 soooo, a United Ireland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 1 hour ago, TallPaul1878 said: Northern Ireland looks to be a vassal state within a vassal state. Having restrictions on setting VAT rates. Almost like a powerful state in a union of countries forcing its will upon one of its members! MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 OK so now Johnson has to ask the EU for an extension because our democratically elected members voted that he had to. But he says he's not going to. Is that not putting himself forward for potential "dictator" status? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, MikeO said: OK so now Johnson has to ask the EU for an extension because our democratically elected members voted that he had to. But he says he's not going to. Is that not putting himself forward for potential "dictator" status? No way he’ll refuse to do so in reality. The Tory’s are already in disarray and have a minority government. DUP would probably take legal action (I would at least). Plus, when it comes to a GE, he’ll have completely killed any chance of any majority future government. He’s too vain and smart to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 18 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said: I'm a leave voter pal so I speak from my own experiences. I've explained previously my thoughts on Brexit and how it has been an accumulation of the financial crisis in 2008 and through the refugee crisis of Libya and Syria. I speak as a working class leave voter and believe that I can gauge the principles of this group, as much as the chattering classes like to slander us as racists, it is that we fundamentally believe that mass migration is a tool for the global elites to drive down our negotiating power by flooding the market with surplus labour. It's no surprise that zero hour contracts have coincided with mass migration for example. It's nothing to do with race or any other thing, it's a numbers game and always has been. You're either rich or poor now and there is no inbetween. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. If you can't afford to lose your job then you are poor. Deal with it and don't get distracted with the myriad of side issues that are conveniently presented to us. You do realise the tories will lower employment rights? And the only accountants to say we will survive brexit say so on the back of the assumption we will dick our workers rights. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, Matt said: No way he’ll refuse to do so in reality. The Tory’s are already in disarray and have a minority government. DUP would probably take legal action (I would at least). Plus, when it comes to a GE, he’ll have completely killed any chance of any majority future government. He’s too vain and smart to do that. He's been even more hard-nosed on the date than May was though, and at least she had the humility and sense to back down when it became apparent she had no mandate. Against that Johnson has no humility at all, I really can't see him backing down until he's in a straitjacket at Broadmoor and the largactil kicks in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, MikeO said: He's been even more hard-nosed on the date than May was though, and at least she had the humility and sense to back down when it became apparent she had no mandate. Against that Johnson has no humility at all, I really can't see him backing down until he's in a straitjacket at Broadmoor and the largactil kicks in. Yet she continually pushed the date back. Plus she never backed down, she tried 3 times to pass the same thing! its just “politics”, another thing that the leading (or any) party has to say to save face for themselves. Just like repeating “strong and stable” for months/years whilst the party and country spirals downward. It’s all about saying the message regardless of fact or situation. If a message needs continually repeating it will, eventually, lose all meaning. If it hasn’t already, we’re truly at Ingsoc and Newspeak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Matt said: Just like repeating “strong and stable” for months/years It's, "our European friends and partners" that annoys me the most now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Just now, MikeO said: It's, "our European friends and partners" that annoys me the most now. They all annoy me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-boris-johnson-sends-unsigned-letter-to-eu-requesting-extension-to-brexit-deadline-a4266001.html?fbclid=IwAR0hKLY3sfzCSKdiomxSqggnOc0PD06LaUlJ-0Udqfgr9UuU5r4y2XZASKA Imagine backing this buffoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 47 minutes ago, pete0 said: Imagine backing this buffoon. I can't imagine that circumstance personally, and I can't understand anyone who would. Voting leave after giving it thought in 2016 I can understand but he's just a different level of undemocratic idiocy. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 On 18/10/2019 at 18:11, TallPaul1878 said: Hilarious that Boris has been using language such as "Surrender Act" and has gone ahead with some sort of deal that is 95% Theresa May's deal. This is a terrible deal and will leave us as a vassal state. My feelings on the EU have always been that we have sat on the fence with them, neither committing fully nor walking away. Boris' "deal is akin to staying sat on the fence but turning the other way with our backs to Europe. This is not what leavers want, this is not what remainers want. In fact I would rather go all in with Europe, Euro currency and all, than to take this deal. At least we would know where we stood and would have full veto power and clout within the community. I completely agree. It will be interesting to see how the EU reacts in the next few days but it would seem they are only going to consider the extension once Parliament has made up its mind on the deal. Parliament needs to stop dicking around with all these amendments and just get on with the vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 I'm not entirely sure who's now left to support Johnson's position. Certainly not those that voted Brexit in the Euro elections (30% election share) because Farage has dismissed it as a "treaty" rather than Brexit, certainly not the LibDems who want to remain (19.6% in the same poll) and certainly not the Scots, Northern Irish or the Welsh. There's a few Labour dissenters and some Tories who are still doing as they're told and a few stupid enough to believe what they read in the Express but his deal put to the country would be lucky to get 20%. Actually hilarious that we'd have done the deed by now had Boris and his ERG mates voted for May's deal, which was a fag paper away from what he's proposing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 11 hours ago, MikeO said: Actually hilarious that we'd have done the deed by now had Boris and his ERG mates voted for May's deal, which was a fag paper away from what he's proposing. But that was more about party politics than Brexit they wanted May out as their leader and Boris in, they just used Brexit as the vehicle to achieve that. When the next general election comes and Boris is still leading the Tories people need to remember, that he can’t be trusted, he is a liar and a dictator. We have to have a 2nd referendum on this single issue, it’s far too big and important to let it become a party decision after a general election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 (Stolen from elsewhere) Johnson was in the government that agreed the WA. Then he changed his mind and twice voted against the WA. Then he changed his mind and voted for the WA. Then he changed his mind and introduced a new tweaked WA. Now he wants MP's to have a 4th "meaningful" vote on WA's. But if we plebs were to be asked if we had changed our minds via a 2nd 'meaningful' vote. That would be 'undemocratic'!? Palfy and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 the trouble with Boris is really He is a Politician and as evertone knows if a politician tells you that Monday comes before Tuesday, you had better check it on a callender However he is between a rock and a hard place (mainly because of other politicians who are shit scared of leaving the warm cosy lap of the EU w here they don't need to do much and they are too lazy to take up the jobs they were elected to do in the first place) on the whole I would like him to succeed (not because I like him, not because I am a tory voter = I am not by the way = but mainly because I am pissed off with the people who are delaying everything ad infinitum . I have said this before in public and on here Polititicians? I have shit them …. Thersa May Compounded the errors made by Cameron and now we are reaping what we deserve, but fuckin hell I just want us out of the whole bloody mess now We can carry on negotiating once we are out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 This is just unbelievable. Oliver Letwin saying (with a straight face) that MPs should vote for this exit deal because even if they believe it to be crap it's the least crap on offer....and getting cheers from the Tory benches for saying so. A new low; and Johnson going to take his ball (and his bill presumably) home with him if he doesn't get his way tonight. Next he'll be sat there holding his breath until the House does what he wants. Embarrassing. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50146182 not surprised in the slightest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Matt said: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50146182 not surprised in the slightest But if (as expected) he loses the vote currently being taken on the scheduling of the bill he's going to pull the plug on it himself, enough voted for the last bill on the basis that when the seemingly inevitable GE happens they can say, "well I voted for it" to their constituents. So pretty meaningless really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 11 hours ago, MikeO said: But if (as expected) he loses the vote currently being taken on the scheduling of the bill he's going to pull the plug on it himself, enough voted for the last bill on the basis that when the seemingly inevitable GE happens they can say, "well I voted for it" to their constituents. So pretty meaningless really. And as expected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said: General Election incoming. No party will gain a suitable majority, in fact I think all 3 major parties will get around 30% of the vote each. The only thing I can see happening there is that Labour and Lib Dems go into power with the Lib Dems insisting on a second referendum or even outright cancelling Brexit. Agreed with the Labour LibDem alliance if gained enough seats to form a government, but could the Brexit party hold the key with the Tories for the next coalition government. That latter would be a far right dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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