Hull City (Away) December 30th

[Palfy]

Pad is one of the few who is actually showing a bit of understanding of our current plight.

How is saying we played well showing understanding when we played terribly, that's just wallpaper over the cracks, or head buried in the sand mentality.

[c1982]

How is saying we played well showing understanding when we played terribly, that's just wallpaper over the cracks, or head buried in the sand mentality.

He's saying we didn't play as bad as some are harping on about. You'd think Koeman had turned Martinez's title challengers into a mediocre mid-table team the way some are harping on about on here.

[Paddock]

Does anyone know if senile dementia can start in your mid forties, if it can unfortunately I think Pad has got it.

Why don't you go and fuck yourself.

[Paddock]

He's saying we didn't play as bad as some are harping on about. You'd think Koeman had turned Martinez's title challengers into a mediocre mid-table team the way some are harping on about on here.

I wouldn't bother mate, he's eith a kopite on the fish or one of the knobs who expects a complete turnaround and a 11th placed team to be fighting for Europe because a new managers had 15 games.

[Shukes]

Pad is right. We didn't play that bad.

For once we actually had shots at the oppositions goal.

Not saying it is good enough yet, but the last few matches have shown a slow steady progress.

[MC11]

Why is everyone a Kopite who doesn't agree with you Paddock?

 

I'll be honest with you, I don't see anything that indicates we are improving. The team is playing as individuals and we're all over the place. Koeman is worse than Martinez in my eyes! His brand of football is dreadful

[johnh]

Did we seriously just bring on a 3rd cb in the 86th minute against the worst team in the league... Why oh why

 

Watching on Sky, when he made that change, I said out loud 'Koeman's happy with a draw'.

[Bailey]

Re Robles... it would have been a world class save to stop it going in from there. It's hit the top of his hand not even his palm. It would have been save of the season if he had stopped it. We know he isn't that good, Stek probably wouldn't have moved!

 

The only thing he could have done was stand another yard off his line. It would give him more chances to divert the ball wide but it would have given him less reaction time.

 

On the whole individually we didn't play that bad but at times we were poor as a team. Problem is Hull were fucking dreadful, worse than against West Ham and City and yet we could only pick up a point and only test the keeper a couple of times. Surely that isn't good enough?

[chalkpie]

If Lukaku is ALWAYS so isolated, shouldn't RK be trying everything in the book to alleviate that? Is he?

[Paddock]

Why is everyone a Kopite who doesn't agree with you Paddock?

 

I'll be honest with you, I don't see anything that indicates we are improving. The team is playing as individuals and we're all over the place. Koeman is worse than Martinez in my eyes! His brand of football is dreadful

They're not plenty of people do and aren't.

 

If you don't see an improvement that's fine it's your opinion, whether you're right about Koeman remains to be seen but it's too soon to judge, that's my point.

 

Whether you see no improvement or not we were not terrible last night, we were terrible in many other games but last night we dominated for long spells.

 

No it wasn't great either but all the boo boys can't wait to jump on any performance where we don't win and scream it's shite. Hull beat some good teams at the start of the season, Burnley have also, yes they'll both probably go down but just because we don't beat them doesn't automatically mean we played shite.

 

We were not shite yesterday.

[Cornish Steve]

They're not plenty of people do and aren't.

 

If you don't see an improvement that's fine it's your opinion, whether you're right about Koeman remains to be seen but it's too soon to judge, that's my point.

 

Whether you see no improvement or not we were not terrible last night, we were terrible in many other games but last night we dominated for long spells.

 

No it wasn't great either but all the boo boys can't wait to jump on any performance where we don't win and scream it's shite. Hull beat some good teams at the start of the season, Burnley have also, yes they'll both probably go down but just because we don't beat them doesn't automatically mean we played shite.

 

We were not shite yesterday.

 

My biggest concern after that game is that the players genuinely don't appear to understand their role in the team system. You suggest we didn't play too badly, but didn't you get that same feeling? Would it explain why we see the same problems game after game - Rom so isolated and huge gaps in midfield?

[Paddock]

 

My biggest concern after that game is that the players genuinely don't appear to understand their role in the team system. You suggest we didn't play too badly, but didn't you get that same feeling? Would it explain why we see the same problems game after game - Rom so isolated and huge gaps in midfield?

Of course the players understand their role, they're professionals and know how to play all different ways.

 

The problem we have is we don't have the type of players to play the system he wants us to play. We don't have the physical presence or tenacity and we have too many mediocre players.

 

I don't see players not understanding what they are supposed to be doing I see aging players trying to play a high intensity pressing game and they aren't capable of it.

[MC11]

Of course the players understand their role, they're professionals and know how to play all different ways.

The problem we have is we don't have the type of players to play the system he wants us to play. We don't have the physical presence or tenacity and we have too many mediocre players.

I don't see players not understanding what they are supposed to be doing I see aging players trying to play a high intensity pressing game and they aren't capable of it.

What is this phantom system? Because I don't see one at all! What type of players does it require?

[TOFFEEliscious]

Why is everyone a Kopite who doesn't agree with you Paddock?

 

I'll be honest with you, I don't see anything that indicates we are improving. The team is playing as individuals and we're all over the place. Koeman is worse than Martinez in my eyes! His brand of football is dreadful

 

we are improving if only because some new young guys are getting time and looking decent. we sometimes play as individuals but against Hull we were able to string together patches of play where we looked decent. We're not consistent, that's for sure. But RK has an aged squad and hasn't really had time, 15 games, are we really that impatient?

 

did you believe in what he did at SouHpt? I think he needs more time. At least RK tells it like it is and doesn't sugar coat things. He hasn't had enough time or opportunity to get his players to implement is brand of football.

[Paddock]

What is this phantom system? Because I don't see one at all! What type of players does it require?

He wants us to be more agressive and play at a higher tempo, he's said it numerous times but he has the likes of Barry -too old, Cleverley -shite McCarthy -could do it but his hamstrings are stuck tgether with chewy, Geri-is knackered after half an hour, Barkley - shits out of every tackle, Mirallas - plays for himself but could fit into that catergory, Lukaku - wouldn't run the hozzy if a relative was on their lazzies.

 

He brought in Gana and Bolasie who are both strong and direct and work hard, he wanted Sissoko who although I think we dodged a bullet is strong and bull-ish.

 

We don't have the players to play how he wants it's glaringly obvious. Martinez has saddled us with a load of shite, mediocre players and fucking crocks who he gave contrzct extentions to. You can't expect him to come in and wave a magic wand , you can polish a turd as much as you like but it'll always be a turd.

[Hafnia]

I thoughg it was telling the way a 19 year old kid came on and looked like he was on speed.

 

Too many lazy fuckers.

[Paddock]

I thoughg it was telling the way a 19 year old kid came on and looked like he was on speed.

 

Too many lazy fuckers.

Yes, a bit of enthusiasm can go a long way.

 

I'm still not convinced Davies is ready to be a starter though. A season in and around the first team with some sub appearances and the odd start for me.

[EFC-Paul]

The man's been here for half a season and people are writing him off already...

You can't polish a turd and the man has been handed some sloppy ones

 

Has Gana been an improvement? has Bolasie? Williams? Yes all have had a big or positive impact and by no fault of his own one has had a serious injury set back

 

As said he's inherited some absolute shite from Martinez and he's had six or so months to work with them, he's looking at youth he's brought better players in and we currently sit 7th in the league

 

I agree we need to be better and I'm not papering over any cracks dropping points against sides like Hull Burnley etc isn't great and we'd be sitting very pretty if that wasn't the case (as would all) but we need some sensible perspective, we are not a great side we've a relatively new manager and set up working with some dross that needs some youth and quality adding to it

 

The man needs this and next years transfer window to try and shape us up, I'm positive come the start of next season we will see a completely different and much improved side

Edited January 1, 2017 by EFC-Paul

[markjazzbassist]

Spot on paul and pad

[Paddock]

The man's been here for half a season and people are writing him off already...

You can't polish a turd and the man has been handed some sloppy ones

 

Has Gana been an improvement? has Bolasie? Williams? Yes all have had a big or positive impact and by no fault of his own one has had a serious injury set back

 

As said he's inherited some absolute shite from Martinez and he's had six or so months to work with them, he's looking at youth he's brought better players in and we currently sit 7th in the league

 

I agree we need to be better and I'm not papering over any cracks dropping points against sides like Hull Burnley etc isn't great and we'd be sitting very pretty if that wasn't the case (as would all) but we need some sensible perspective, we are not a great side we've a relatively new manager and set up working with some dross that needs some youth and quality adding to it

 

The man needs this and next years transfer window to try and shape us up, I'm positive come the start of next season we will see a completely different and much improved side

Good post mate and even if he doesn't get it right at least he was given a chance.

[Palfy]

I thoughg it was telling the way a 19 year old kid came on and looked like he was on speed.

Too many lazy fuckers.

Spot on Davies should be playing from the start, instead we get the predictable Barry nearly every game, we all know he's past it according to Pad even Koeman knows it, so to constantly pick him over Davies is in my book incompetent management.

If Davies is better he's old enough, that's why I got know time for Koeman, we could do better than we are with the players he has at his disposal if he had a clue about what he was doing, and that's not saying we could be pushing for Europe or being 6th in the league, but we should be out there looking like a football team and not eleven blokes who look like they've never met before, a bad tradesman always blames his tools.

For these reasons to me he is a poor manager good managers wouldn't constantly pick players that weren't good enough when he clearly has other options.

[Hafnia]

Davies does look a bit rough round the edges but looks mentally strong.

[EFC-Paul]

Agree Palfy if your good enough your old enough, he won't be thrown in all the time but the lad definitely should be given much more time imo

 

Alli probably being the best example of late but the likes of Targett Gray Chilwell and co seem to be coping well enough amongst others

[Romey 1878]

I like how willing our senior players are to give Davies the ball. That says a lot about him right there.

[Palfy]

Davies does look a bit rough round the edges but looks mentally strong.

Haf I remember a story you told me about a lad you new who didn't make it but should have, be honest would you play Barry or Davies at this moment in time if you were in charge.

Also I would play Holgate instead of Jags or Williams I don't believe you can play them two together because there both to old and neither has got any pace so they sit to deep cause they don't want a chase back to box when they know they'd be skinned, so if you play Holgate with either one he would be able to get us further up the pitch Jags or Williams would follow him confident in the knowledge that if a ball was played in the space behind them Holgate has got the speed and legs for the chase, now in my head that is such a basic and simple thing to do which would help with the so called pressing, yet Koeman can't see that and he's on 6M a year, that's what I mean by doing the best with what you've got.

[Palfy]

Thierry Henry is such a twat. Worse than Carra and Redknapp's!

He is just terrible. Talks out of his arse.

 

He was talking about Barkley moaning that he only has two assists, ignoring that he has created the most chances despite not even playing every game.

 

He said something earlier that was equally as ignorant too.

Enough said that's how much we care about what Henry has to say about Barkley.

[Bailey]

Of course the players understand their role, they're professionals and know how to play all different ways.

 

The problem we have is we don't have the type of players to play the system he wants us to play. We don't have the physical presence or tenacity and we have too many mediocre players.

 

I don't see players not understanding what they are supposed to be doing I see aging players trying to play a high intensity pressing game and they aren't capable of it.

I don't think they do understand entirely what they should be doing. We don't press as a team, against Hull there were several occasions when they were pointing anlt each other and arguing who should have been doing what.

 

We certainly weren't as shite as we were against Leicester but Hull were awful and we somehow let them score 2 against us and at the same time we only created 1 other clear cut chance (as far as I can remember).

 

I'm also not having the player excuse to that extent. Only Gana has been a real success. Williams has been the main protagonist for us dropping deep, Bolasie wasn't exactly that great at pressing and if he wants high energy then stop picking the slow and old. Regardless of whether Davies is truly ready, Barry can't play high energy so we are losing out more as a team.

 

We also showed at Arsenal that we are capable of this high octane game and in the first half v Liverpool.

 

When Klopp turned up across the park he immediately got the players pressing and his philosophy into the squad, largely with the same players that Rodgers had. He did that without a preseason. It didn't always work because he did need to get some of his own players in and because it was a new system but you could see what they were trying to do. Since then he has got a couple of new players in, he has whipped them into shape pre season and they are playing as well as anyone. Koeman has already had a summer, has some of his own players in already and we looked far better week 1 v Spurs than we have done at any point after it. I would have expected us to start averagely and then improve not the other way around.

 

Hopefully we do start showing that improvement in the second half of the season as we desperately need to otherwise we will be in the bottom half again.

[Paddock]

I don't think they do understand entirely what they should be doing. We don't press as a team, against Hull there were several occasions when they were pointing anlt each other and arguing who should have been doing what.

 

We certainly weren't as shite as we were against Leicester but Hull were awful and we somehow let them score 2 against us and at the same time we only created 1 other clear cut chance (as far as I can remember).

 

I'm also not having the player excuse to that extent. Only Gana has been a real success. Williams has been the main protagonist for us dropping deep, Bolasie wasn't exactly that great at pressing and if he wants high energy then stop picking the slow and old. Regardless of whether Davies is truly ready, Barry can't play high energy so we are losing out more as a team.

 

We also showed at Arsenal that we are capable of this high octane game and in the first half v Liverpool.

 

When Klopp turned up across the park he immediately got the players pressing and his philosophy into the squad, largely with the same players that Rodgers had. He did that without a preseason. It didn't always work because he did need to get some of his own players in and because it was a new system but you could see what they were trying to do. Since then he has got a couple of new players in, he has whipped them into shape pre season and they are playing as well as anyone. Koeman has already had a summer, has some of his own players in already and we looked far better week 1 v Spurs than we have done at any point after it. I would have expected us to start averagely and then improve not the other way around.

 

Hopefully we do start showing that improvement in the second half of the season as we desperately need to otherwise we will be in the bottom half again.

Klopp also took over a team that had spent 300 million pound on players with a much richer squad depth than we have.

 

We were an absolute shambles when we sacked Martinez, we were leaking 3 goals a game most games, we were sliding into oblivion and Koemans inherited that.

 

I'm not saying he's the answer he may be shite but nobody can expect ANY manager to come in and rectify that mess in one window and 17 games, it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

 

He has shored the back up to an extent, we don't look like we're going to concede everytime the opposition come forward, we're 7th so it's not like we're bottom half. It was always going to be a project that needed building from the bottom upwards again.

[Bailey]

Klopp also took over a team that had spent 300 million pound on players with a much richer squad depth than we have.

 

We were an absolute shambles when we sacked Martinez, we were leaking 3 goals a game most games, we were sliding into oblivion and Koemans inherited that.

 

I'm not saying he's the answer he may be shite but nobody can expect ANY manager to come in and rectify that mess in one window and 17 games, it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

 

He has shored the back up to an extent, we don't look like we're going to concede everytime the opposition come forward, we're 7th so it's not like we're bottom half. It was always going to be a project that needed building from the bottom upwards again.

I do agree with some of your points but money doesn't mean they are good players though. Just look at Moreno and Balotelli!

 

We may be 7th but we aren't playing like a club in 7th. I can only hand on heart say that we gave deserved to win about 5 games this season (my memory isn't always the best though ?). Like I mentioned in the other thread, I think we are only 1 point better off than last season and my main point about Klopp is that he stamped his style on the squad from day 1, not perfect, but you could see what they were trying to achieve. I honestly can't see what we are trying to achieve under Koeman. In fact I am more confused now that I was on week 1.

 

I agree we look less likely to concede but at the same time we don't commit nearly as many forward and out attacking play has drastically suffered. I think we have only conceded 5 or 6 less goals this season yet we have scored around 15 less.

[chalkpie]

I do agree with some of your points but money doesn't mean they are good players though. Just look at Moreno and Balotelli!

 

We may be 7th but we aren't playing like a club in 7th. I can only hand on heart say that we gave deserved to win about 5 games this season (my memory isn't always the best though ). Like I mentioned in the other thread, I think we are only 1 point better off than last season and my main point about Klopp is that he stamped his style on the squad from day 1, not perfect, but you could see what they were trying to achieve. I honestly can't see what we are trying to achieve under Koeman. In fact I am more confused now that I was on week 1.

 

I agree we look less likely to concede but at the same time we don't commit nearly as many forward and out attacking play has drastically suffered. I think we have only conceded 5 or 6 less goals this season yet we have scored around 15 less.

 

This for me totally too. We have no identity other than pure, unadulterated shite at the moment. Moments of brilliance? Maybe, but SOOOOO infrequent and more of a fluke than anything else.