MikeO Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I think you do at the moment your a tree hugger, come on Mike get with the program a west country resident you must have Lib Dem coursing through your veins. Since the LibDems will be second in my constituency, albeit miles behind the Tory, I shall definitely be voting for them. UKIP came second here in 2015 but the libdems dropped 22.9% in line with the national rout, confident they'll have a lot more than nine MPs this time though they won't get close to the 62 they had in 2010. Thirty would be my estimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Since the LibDems will be second in my constituency, albeit miles behind the Tory, I shall definitely be voting for them. UKIP came second here in 2015 but the libdems dropped 22.9% in line with the national rout, confident they'll have a lot more than nine MPs this time though they won't get close to the 62 they had in 2010. Thirty would be my estimate.I know what you mean the constituency I live in is staunch conservative, so unless I become the world's biggest mass murderer by some 6,000 or so people they will romp it.When I lived 15 minutes away in Swindon East it was always marginal seat swinging between Labour and Conservative, wish I still lived in a marginal seat where your vote can make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 In some parallel universe David Milliband became Labour leader, won the last general election, there was no EU referendum and we were all quietly content with our lives and more than likely better off for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 In some parallel universe David Milliband became Labour leader, won the last general election, there was no EU referendum and we were all quietly content with our lives and more than likely better off for it. While those outdoors strive to avoid flying pigs and those in Hell enjoy a snowball fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 question from an outsider: seeing how hugely unpopular Corbyn is, is it possible he will loose his seat? If so, can he continue as leader or is it not necessary the leader of the party is also an MP? Apparently a lot of people on here don't want to vote for a certain party based on who's the leader of that party. Personally I would vote for the most capable politician in my constituency. For example, if I were to live in Rushcliffe I'd vote for the Conservative candidate, but if I lived in the East Midlands I'd vote Lib Dem, etc. (I have, in past elections, voted for the Green Party, the Liberal party and even the eurosceptic party.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 question from an outsider: seeing how hugely unpopular Corbyn is, is it possible he will loose his seat? If so, can he continue as leader or is it not necessary the leader of the party is also an MP? Apparently a lot of people on here don't want to vote for a certain party based on who's the leader of that party. Personally I would vote for the most capable politician in my constituency. For example, if I were to live in Rushcliffe I'd vote for the Conservative candidate, but if I lived in the East Midlands I'd vote Lib Dem, etc. (I have, in past elections, voted for the Green Party, the Liberal party and even the eurosceptic party.) Not a chance in hell he'll lose his seat, had a twenty thousand plus majority in 2015 in Islington North (29,659 v 8,465 for second place). He's not hugely unpopular with everyone which is why he won the Labour leadership vote (twice) by a landslide, voted for by party members. Unfortunately he's a throwback to old fashioned Labour who became unelectable hence the move to "new Labour" and the Tony Blair era in the nineties. New Labour were really "moderate" Tories 2,0 and the two main parties became virtually indistinguishable. Lib Dems became the most left minded mainstream party (even left wing luminaries like Billy Bragg were telling people to vote for them). Corbyn may be greatly unpopular with the majority but there are hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of people with traditional old fashioned and unfashionable Labour views still who are fiercely loyal and delighted to see the party go back to what it always stood for (in their opinion). I agree with a huge amount of what Corbyn says and I think he's honest and a truly conviction politician who's not going to compromise his opinions to gain power. Having said that the way the country is currently (unless the World tilts on its axis) he's totally unelectable. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted April 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Since the LibDems will be second in my constituency, albeit miles behind the Tory, I shall definitely be voting for them. UKIP came second here in 2015 but the libdems dropped 22.9% in line with the national rout, confident they'll have a lot more than nine MPs this time though they won't get close to the 62 they had in 2010. Thirty would be my estimate. Currently, the LibDems can fit their MP's into a Renault Espace. After June, I think they will maybe need another Espace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Currently, the LibDems can fit their MP's into a Renault Espace. After June, I think they will maybe need another Espace. And once again, due to our absurd electoral system, they won't have the representation their share of the vote warrants. But neither will UKIP so it's not all bad news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted April 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 And once again, due to our absurd electoral system, they won't have the representation their share of the vote warrants. But neither will UKIP so it's not all bad news. It will be better when the boundary changes are implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 May on the foreign aid budget... "Let's be clear, the 0.7% commitment remains and will remain." So that's that gone then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Surely she's committing to 1.4% then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Surely she's committing to 1.4% then? Either that or free supplies of magnolia paint for every UK citizen under the age of four or subsidised manicures for everyone whose middle name begins with T, could be anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Not a chance in hell he'll lose his seat, had a twenty thousand plus majority in 2015 in Islington North (29,659 v 8,465 for second place). He's not hugely unpopular with everyone which is why he won the Labour leadership vote (twice) by a landslide, voted for by party members. Unfortunately he's a throwback to old fashioned Labour who became unelectable hence the move to "new Labour" and the Tony Blair era in the nineties. New Labour were really "moderate" Tories 2,0 and the two main parties became virtually indistinguishable. Lib Dems became the most left minded mainstream party (even left wing luminaries like Billy Bragg were telling people to vote for them). Corbyn may be greatly unpopular with the majority but there are hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of people with traditional old fashioned and unfashionable Labour views still who are fiercely loyal and delighted to see the party go back to what it always stood for (in their opinion). I agree with a huge amount of what Corbyn says and I think he's honest and a truly conviction politician who's not going to compromise his opinions to gain power. Having said that the way the country is currently (unless the World tilts on its axis) he's totally unelectable. He seems to have quite a cultish following of hardcore supporters. Corbyn misses the boat in my opinion. The country is crying out for a leader to represent the working and middle classes, something the name of his party suggests they should be. I have looked at some of his pledges and they seem to be anti business. Increase corporation task, increase minimum wage, increase employee collective bargaining powers, remove zero hours contracts etc. If labour get into power even more businesses will struggle or move abroad and if that happens more people will be out of work or they will be on less hours and that in turn will require the govt to pay more in benefits. If businesses are successful, employees have more choice, the govt gets more in taxes and people have more disposable income to spend at other businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 He seems to have quite a cultish following of hardcore supporters. Corbyn misses the boat in my opinion. The country is crying out for a leader to represent the working and middle classes, something the name of his party suggests they should be. I have looked at some of his pledges and they seem to be anti business. Increase corporation task, increase minimum wage, increase employee collective bargaining powers, remove zero hours contracts etc. If labour get into power even more businesses will struggle or move abroad and if that happens more people will be out of work or they will be on less hours and that in turn will require the govt to pay more in benefits. If businesses are successful, employees have more choice, the govt gets more in taxes and people have more disposable income to spend at other businesses. In this country businesses were prioritised over the people during the recession. Workers rights and wages were savaged, and the benefits system squeezed the poorest even more. Now the businesses are booming more than ever yet, the workers aren't being compensated. It all stays at the top, and doesn't get spent in this country. We have a shit house corrupt government only looking out for themselves. One more tory turn and there will be anarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 He seems to have quite a cultish following of hardcore supporters. Corbyn misses the boat in my opinion. The country is crying out for a leader to represent the working and middle classes, something the name of his party suggests they should be. I have looked at some of his pledges and they seem to be anti business. Increase corporation task, increase minimum wage, increase employee collective bargaining powers, remove zero hours contracts etc. If labour get into power even more businesses will struggle or move abroad and if that happens more people will be out of work or they will be on less hours and that in turn will require the govt to pay more in benefits. If businesses are successful, employees have more choice, the govt gets more in taxes and people have more disposable income to spend at other businesses. this is a fallacy. if the businesses leave, others will start to fill their place. the cost of domestic products/services is always cheaper than an import. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 (edited) this is a fallacy. if the businesses leave, others will start to fill their place. the cost of domestic products/services is always cheaper than an import. Not true, Mark. Companies that have outsourced overseas have, on the whole, thrived. Those that refused to do so are mostly struggling or defunct. Yes, other companies may step in, but their costs will be out of step, which means exports will also plummet. Georgia used to be a Mecca for clothing manufacturers. Now there are none left because the cost of outsourcing manufacturing is so much less. It's the same for service industries. Most accountants outsource a majority of work overseas. If they didn't, their prices would soar and they'd be out of business. Edited April 22, 2017 by Cornish Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 the demand doesn't change Steve simple economics. If people live there and need a product there is demand. You leave someone else will open or move there to take advantage of the demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 the demand doesn't change Steve simple economics. If people live there and need a product there is demand. You leave someone else will open or move there to take advantage of the demand. this is a fallacy. if the businesses leave, others will start to fill their place. the cost of domestic products/services is always cheaper than an import. Its not fallacy at all, maybe more so historically but not anymore given the way you can access global markets much easier. We used to be a largely industrious country but there are barely any left now. If you start tightening regulations or taxing the services industry more than other countries they will also leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 In this country businesses were prioritised over the people during the recession. Workers rights and wages were savaged, and the benefits system squeezed the poorest even more. Now the businesses are booming more than ever yet, the workers aren't being compensated. It all stays at the top, and doesn't get spent in this country. We have a shit house corrupt government only looking out for themselves. One more tory turn and there will be anarchy. Without business, people will struggle. The recessions screwed everyone, businesses failed, people lost their jobs and with less money, of course benefits were squeezed, especially when a lot of people were receiving benefits when they shouldn't have been. Benefits should be there for the people that need them when shit hits the fan. Unfortunately the system had been abused for so long that people were milking it and taking money from those who worked all their life, lost their job and want to work but cant get a new job. Whether its Tory/Labour/Lib Dem, the government will always be crooked as greed seems to count for more than doing whats right by yourself and the country. Unfortunately this also applies to people in every walk of life, too many people are out for an easy buck, instead of working hard and grafting for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Without business, people will struggle. The recessions screwed everyone, businesses failed, people lost their jobs and with less money, of course benefits were squeezed, especially when a lot of people were receiving benefits when they shouldn't have been. Benefits should be there for the people that need them when shit hits the fan. Unfortunately the system had been abused for so long that people were milking it and taking money from those who worked all their life, lost their job and want to work but cant get a new job. Whether its Tory/Labour/Lib Dem, the government will always be crooked as greed seems to count for more than doing whats right by yourself and the country. Unfortunately this also applies to people in every walk of life, too many people are out for an easy buck, instead of working hard and grafting for it. Benefit fraud is massively exaggerated by the media and the government. From personal experience, living as a carer to a disabled wife, the change from DLA to PIP by IDS wanting to "target money where it's really needed" was complete bullshit. The governments stated aim was to remove 20% of DLA claimants, thus reducing the benefit bill by taking people who by the existing rules qualified but by the new ones didn't and telling them they were now all better. Their own figures at the time put fraud at less than 0.5% of claims, and I don't know how the fuck those 0.5% managed it because you have such a huge and detailed form to fill in plus you need the evidence of medical professionals; it's a complete and utter nightmare I assure you. PIP is worse, and much harder to get and people are assessed face to face by non medical professionals and even if a raft of doctors and specialists say one thing if a non-pro (from a private company who are tasked with reducing the number of claimants for which they'll be rewarded) then you're stuffed. Unless you get the right advice and appeal where most negative decisions are overturned. We're OK because I'm not daft and know how to go about stuff, many (particularly people with mental health issues) just give in. Very many cases of suicide on record as a result. I'm not saying benefit fraud doesn't exist, but I will say with absolute certainty that it costs the country a fraction of what tax avoidance by the rich and large corporations does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 Without business, people will struggle. The recessions screwed everyone, businesses failed, people lost their jobs and with less money, of course benefits were squeezed, especially when a lot of people were receiving benefits when they shouldn't have been. Benefits should be there for the people that need them when shit hits the fan. Unfortunately the system had been abused for so long that people were milking it and taking money from those who worked all their life, lost their job and want to work but cant get a new job. Whether its Tory/Labour/Lib Dem, the government will always be crooked as greed seems to count for more than doing whats right by yourself and the country. Unfortunately this also applies to people in every walk of life, too many people are out for an easy buck, instead of working hard and grafting for it. There is give and take, and now it's time for the businesses to start giving back. Not everyone had to lose their jobs. Businesses abused the new employment laws and used it to boost profits. Mike has covered benefits better than I could. Tories won't. May had a great speech when first standing in. All facts show she has done the opposite though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/how-many-of-jeremy-corbyns-policies-do.html?m=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 What are the chances of Diane Abbott being launched into space and never to be seen again can we have an election on that? Please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 What are the chances of Diane Abbott being launched into space and never to be seen again can we have an election on that? Please!! She been playing the racist card again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 She been playing the racist card again? Probably, I came across a clip of her on social media were she was put on the spot by a bloke regarding some of her past comments and every time the woman opens her trap utter contradictive nonsense spills out How she's even involved with politics and paid to do so is beyond me, I can't bare the daft cunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 Not often I quote the Fail but this is interesting! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4436044/Tory-lead-slashed-half-tax-U-turn.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 Probably, I came across a clip of her on social media were she was put on the spot by a bloke regarding some of her past comments and every time the woman opens her trap utter contradictive nonsense spills out How she's even involved with politics and paid to do so is beyond me, I can't bare the daft cunt It's funny because she's one of the biggest racists there is - it's clear that she despises whites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Not often I quote the Fail but this is interesting! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4436044/Tory-lead-slashed-half-tax-U-turn.html On Channel 4's The Last Leg, they referred to a source that suggested this would happen. They reckon that Labour will be talking up how Conservatives will win to encourage Labour voters to vote while Conservatives will be talking down their chances to encourage Conservatives to vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/mark-steel-on-conservative-doublespeak/ Chach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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