badaids Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 Out of the blue a mate has sent me a close up picture of the Gomes injury taken from a treatment room. I didn’t want to look but I couldn’t help it. It doesn’t look like a break as such but like his entire foot is dislocated and completely out of joint. I guess that means all the ligaments are gone. If that’s the case can they all be fixed? Has there been any news from the club today as to the extent of the injury? Totally devastated for him. Got a Portuguese mate who is going to translate a letter of best wishes that I’ve written for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 20 hours ago, Gwlad all over said: How long does it take to decide clear and obvious? Was never going to go our way. Took longer with Keane/Brighton and they gave it. VAR is beyond comical. It is ruining the sport. American sports have embraced replay and no doubt it has a few flaws but nothing even remotely close to this. If you're going to allow VAR to dictate judgement calls the match official is the only one who should be allowed to make a decision. PERIOD. Send him to the midline and let him see the video three times - that's all it should take for 'clear and obvious'. Decision made after that. We're back to playing within 2 minutes every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, AlbanyNYToffee said: Took longer with Keane/Brighton and they gave it. VAR is beyond comical. It is ruining the sport. American sports have embraced replay and no doubt it has a few flaws but nothing even remotely close to this. If you're going to allow VAR to dictate judgement calls the match official is the only one who should be allowed to make a decision. PERIOD. Send him to the midline and let him see the video three times - that's all it should take for 'clear and obvious'. Decision made after that. We're back to playing within 2 minutes every time. P.S. VAR was not a topic of conversation at the biggest event in the world. If FIFA, the most corrupt organization in sports, can figure out VAR the PL better get their shit together. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 On 03/11/2019 at 21:50, MikeO said: You can also hear what they're saying, not sure about in the ground but certainly on TV and you can also hear what the ref is saying to the players; much clearer system. This is what makes it work in rugby. You hear a conversation between the ref, linesman and video ref who all watch the replay on the big screen with the fans. Fans can also buy ear pieces (at least in internationals) where they can listen to what the ref is saying. You can also hear the ref all game, giving instructions about the decisions he makes and the warnIngs he gives to players. It is open, transparent and whilst the rules are still open to interpretation, there is reasoning given there and then as well as a collective decision. The FA seem very determined to do the opposite. They almost want to stop the refs providing an explanation so that they can scurry away after the game and provide a report to fit what happened. In the Alli example, if the decision posted was true, it didn't even matter if he handballed it if the interpretation was that he got a shove so why watch the ball hitting his hand over and over again. Why not have a conversation with the ref using the monitor and say this is what I see and think, what about you guys on the ground? They have made something so simple and straightforward so much more complicated. I fail to understand how you can't score a goal because the ball brushes against the arm but then you can have your arm flailing above your head in an unnatural position and it be deemed not to be a penalty. It's madness and it shows how inept both the FA and the referees in this country actually are. pete0, Matt, Romey 1878 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 I actually have some sympathy for referees (most of the time) because they're put into an impossible position and are always going to make mistakes. It's the FA that shoulders 90% of the blame for all this. This tool should've helped reduce the pressure on the referee and empower them, giving them confidence and help them learn from their mistakes. Getting the chance to overturn a decision when he has the chance to review would be much more positive and be a much more valuable tactic in the whole "respect" program that the FA has been trying to implement for years. Respect is earned; admitting you've gotten something wrong goes a long way to gaining respect, rather than having some parental figure not even present making a decision for you in a misjudged attempt at protecting. But all this is completely unsurprising when you read the Respect project brochure and look at the FA in general - business first, then the game, then the people involved (maybe). It's so full of corporate project management nonsense and catchphrases that it's made itself completely irrelevant where it should actually count! Shukes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 Another point I’ve made @Matt is why doesn’t the PL buy the best refs in the world? Instead we get Jim the gym teacher moonlighting as a ref on weekends. They buy the best foreign talent, they should do the same with refs. That would really show the rest of the leagues and the world how serious they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: Another point I’ve made @Matt is why doesn’t the PL buy the best refs in the world? Instead we get Jim the gym teacher moonlighting as a ref on weekends. They buy the best foreign talent, they should do the same with refs. That would really show the rest of the leagues and the world how serious they are. I assume there’s different qualifications per league, even if the job is fundamentally the same. Anyway, I don’t think it would help. All refs make mistakes, they’re just not supported enough. The FA makes gestures of support and protection but it’s mostly so they cover their asses, ticking a box in an audit by saying “we put up a poster saying respect, we’ve done our part”. They, and probably the league(s) organisers are the fundamental root cause of the issues, buying “the best” (like players, brilliant in one league who then can’t adapt) is like putting tits on a fish; may be something that’s a bit nicer to look at but fundamentally useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: Another point I’ve made @Matt is why doesn’t the PL buy the best refs in the world? Instead we get Jim the gym teacher moonlighting as a ref on weekends. They buy the best foreign talent, they should do the same with refs. That would really show the rest of the leagues and the world how serious they are. No we don't. "At the top end, Premier League referees are salaried so they get paid a regular wage with match fees on top of that. Referees in the top-flight of England can earn as much as £70,000 per year. They are paid a basic yearly retainer of between £38,500 and £42,000 based on experience, and then are paid £1,150 per match on top of that." https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/how-much-premier-league-referees-paid-wages-salary/14pjnss8mq3au1dmbi2acqhav0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 hours ago, MikeO said: No we don't. "At the top end, Premier League referees are salaried so they get paid a regular wage with match fees on top of that. Referees in the top-flight of England can earn as much as £70,000 per year. They are paid a basic yearly retainer of between £38,500 and £42,000 based on experience, and then are paid £1,150 per match on top of that." https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/how-much-premier-league-referees-paid-wages-salary/14pjnss8mq3au1dmbi2acqhav0 in the US 38k is the federal poverty line if you have a family. is it substantial in the uk? 70k is the max, which is middle class over here. not exactly sharing the profits are they. you pay them 2 or 3 times that but let them know there is promotion/relegation and will be competition from foreign talent all of a sudden these people are taking this shit deadly serious, unlike now. atkinson should be ref'ing league one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: in the US 38k is the federal poverty line if you have a family. is it substantial in the uk? 70k is the max, which is middle class over here. not exactly sharing the profits are they. you pay them 2 or 3 times that but let them know there is promotion/relegation and will be competition from foreign talent all of a sudden these people are taking this shit deadly serious, unlike now. atkinson should be ref'ing league one. You need to account for 2 things; exchange rate and cost of living (a massive point when comparing US vs other major economies). health care as an example is basically free, whereas in the US and Switzerland it’s stupid money for basic services (about 15% of my salary a month. My in-laws are paying close to 20% in the US and it’s only getting more expensive as they get older, causing all sorts of financial problems because of Obamacare (which I agree with in principal but it’s been very poorly implemented)) Anyway... If I got a pro referees wage I’d be made up based on job market and living costs, if I moved back. Assuming they ref 20 games a season, that’s 76kUSD a year. If you assume 50 (ie every league game and 12 cup games), that’s potentially 115kUSD a year with having a big off season/vacation. I’d never take it though because of the stress factor. it wasn’t that long ago that they got buttons as a wage though. As I said before, I have sympathy for the refs most of the time; they’re in the spotlight and take all the flack, deflecting from the cause of most of the issues. I’ve experienced this in the business world in previous jobs and you’re basically a patsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: in the US 38k is the federal poverty line if you have a family. is it substantial in the uk? 70k is the max, which is middle class over here. not exactly sharing the profits are they. you pay them 2 or 3 times that but let them know there is promotion/relegation and will be competition from foreign talent all of a sudden these people are taking this shit deadly serious, unlike now. atkinson should be ref'ing league one. Some good points there, incentives to make you better and want to stay at the top, but also more axing for those who don’t perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 8 hours ago, Palfy said: Some good points there, incentives to make you better and want to stay at the top, but also more axing for those who don’t perform. yeah matt proved the money is fine. then make some consequences. send the shite ones back to the championship and promote ones from the championship or league one that are doing well to premier league. it won't happen. they want the ones they have because the FA and top clubs can control them and give them the results they want. it's bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 12 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: yeah matt proved the money is fine. then make some consequences. send the shite ones back to the championship and promote ones from the championship or league one that are doing well to premier league. it won't happen. they want the ones they have because the FA and top clubs can control them and give them the results they want. it's bullshit. They do get demoted to lower leagues or pulled I believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, Matt said: They do get demoted to lower leagues or pulled I believe eg https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/live-match-centre/championship/mike-dean-penalty-leeds-barnsley-hand-ball-demoted-championship-premier-league-a7540251.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 37 minutes ago, MikeO said: eg https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/live-match-centre/championship/mike-dean-penalty-leeds-barnsley-hand-ball-demoted-championship-premier-league-a7540251.html Therefore punishing the Championship. They should sit out, not still get a game. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 with calls like that he should be doing u15 games. wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 I got offered £25 the weekend. I didn’t accept it, I gave it to the club I was refereeing. I need to rethink what I ask for haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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