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MikeO

James McCarthy

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But dont you see that is just the point?

 

There are many midfileders around that you can buy for your team that will add to the quality of your first team.

The trick is to find players in other positions that can add quality too. thats how you build a good team. We have a left back that actually adds quality and offensice power....that is why Baines is worth so much money.

 

There are simply no others for under 20 m that can replace a player of his quality, yet there are a hundred players if you look arouynd that can do a great job in midfield for you.

 

Midfiled is not a nharder position than left back....just a different position.

If we were weak in the left back position then i am sure we would all be screaming out to strengthen that position.

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Don't know how people can think £12 mil is excessive for McCarthy, but are offended by the same amount for Baines.

 

Are you being serious?

 

For a club in our financial position, we cannot afford to invest in players with no resale value (not often at least), that's true, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be asking for more than 12 million for Baines. He's one of the best left backs in the world and still has 4 or 5 seasons left in him, so I'm sure a club with money would be happy to pay that amount to get him, rather than investing in a McCarthy.

 

I like McCarthy myself but 12 million is madness. This transfer window alone has seen more promising midfielders moving for much less. In the Portuguese league. See Djuricic, Quintero, etc

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But dont you see that is just the point?

 

There are many midfileders around that you can buy for your team that will add to the quality of your first team.

The trick is to find players in other positions that can add quality too. thats how you build a good team. We have a left back that actually adds quality and offensice power....that is why Baines is worth so much money.

 

There are simply no others for under 20 m that can replace a player of his quality, yet there are a hundred players if you look around that can do a great job in midfield for you.

 

Midfiled is not a nharder position than left back....just a different position.

If we were weak in the left back position then i am sure we would all be screaming out to strengthen that position.

How many > 28 y.o full backs have been sold for over 12 million compared to midfielders?

Actually I'll make this easy. Quick google, no left-back 28 or over has been sold for that price.

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I like McCarthy myself but 12 million is madness. This transfer window alone has seen more promising midfielders moving for much less. In the Portuguese league. See Djuricic, Quintero, etc

Non of them are proven. Can Everton afford to take the risk?

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Not proven? Well, one's done well in Serie A and the other in Eredivisie. I guess it depends on whether you see Wigan as more challenging.

I see the epl as more challenging than any league, more so if you play for a team like Wigan.

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Let's agree to disagree then. Obviously the Eredivise isn't as competitive, but I'd rather we spent 6 million Euros in one of the league's star players, who has been capped and scored a few goals for Serbia, than 12 million pounds in getting James McCarthy. Djuricic and Quintero were just 2 names that sprung to mind anyway.

 

Remember I'm not saying McCarthy isn't a good player, just that this 12 million pound price tag is massively inflated, nevermind the 20 million being mentioned. I'd be very disappointed if we signed him for that amount of money.

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I'd be made up if we signed Djuricic, don't know much on the other player. The whole market is inflated now, £12 mil is probably the going rate for a player of McCarthy's ability/age he'd cost closer to 20 if he was English. There's been a massive increase in revenue from the new tv deal, an average player (JJ Shelvey) now going for £6 million.

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How many > 28 y.o full backs have been sold for over 12 million compared to midfielders?

Actually I'll make this easy. Quick google, no left-back 28 or over has been sold for that price.

exactly.. thank you. someone else strengthening my point....No other left back is anywhere near to Baines quality. Thanks for the backing Bud!

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Wow!!!

 

Baines was one of the most creative footballers in the whole of Europe last season if not the most (it's on here somewhere the most created chances stat for last season). He is not comparable to McCarthy regardless of position. Baines is in the top 5-10 in his position in the world, James McCarthy is a good central midfield player. Even with 2 yrs left and him being 28, Baines is well worth holding out for £18m. I'd be very disappointed if we spent £12m on McCarthy as there is better out there for cheaper... thing with Baines is that there aren't many better - maybe only Contreau (real player not the drink), Alaba, Marcelo, Alba... con't name many others off the top of my head.

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Not many because they don't have a left-back as good as Leighton Baines.

 

 

^done^

 

pete i just always get the feeling you go against the tide just to get attention....you talk some absolute shite

 

 

that's all i have to say on this thread

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I really like McCarthy but not for daft money. Like a lot of people have said you can get a lot better value abroad. What is Strootman gonna go for? probably not much more than McCarthy is being touted for. Capoue is another. As ive got older I watch less football from other teams/leagues etc so I cant say im a fountain of knowledge I will leave it to the scouts

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^done^

 

pete i just always get the feeling you go against the tide just to get attention....you talk some absolute shite

 

 

that's all i have to say on this thread

Thought I had gave reasonable responses explaining why, just to be greeted with a tirade of objection with little substance to why. The majority swayed against Pienaar once they opened their eyes to his flaws (decision-making, shooting), and if Baines goes I expect most people will eventually reflect on it as a good deal.

 

Kadlec, a left back not far off Baines got transferred for less than £5 million this summer.

Shelvey who is half the player of McCarthy went for 6.

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Thought I had gave reasonable responses explaining why, just to be greeted with a tirade of objection with little substance to why. The majority swayed against Pienaar once they opened their eyes to his flaws (decision-making, shooting), and if Baines goes I expect most people will eventually reflect on it as a good deal.

 

Kadlec, a left back not far off Baines got transferred for less than £5 million this summer.

Shelvey who is half the player of McCarthy went for 6.

 

 

the majority as you put it had an issue with a bad patch of form he had...don't make it sound like you were right all along...he's had far more good games than bad

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Thought I had gave reasonable responses explaining why, just to be greeted with a tirade of objection with little substance to why. The majority swayed against Pienaar once they opened their eyes to his flaws (decision-making, shooting), and if Baines goes I expect most people will eventually reflect on it as a good deal.

 

Kadlec, a left back not far off Baines got transferred for less than £5 million this summer.

Shelvey who is half the player of McCarthy went for 6.

really? think you need to take another look through the thread.

 

If Baines goes for anything less than 18m, I expect most people to be seriously fuckin livid.

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Got to say, I disagree with the Pienaar bashing. Even though his stats were poor, he was still a major player and influence in the amazing stats Baines had.

 

He was bloody frustrating though last season. He has never been the best in the final thrird but normally be makes up for it with his good work before that (normally with Baines!). However this season he went through large spells of unproductivity and when that happens he isn't much use to anyone.

 

He is an important part of the team but he rightfully deserves stick at stages of last season. It was good to see him buck his ides up again towards the end though!

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to buy him for 12 million would be a waste never mind 20 hate dw what a cunt wont be happy if another wigan player comes. get someone with a bit of class these young english players are never going to live up to the hype and teams seem to think a 18-24 year old player guarentees you 20 million these days. look abroad we need movement in our team and there's very few who have that from england, they all seem to stand still and pass sidewards, gets you nothing, neville in midfield proved that. you need to be able to pass forward on the floor and the rest of the team need to move, not seen enough of that except when we have beaten good teams in the past at goodison we always seem to be scared of keeping the ball i hope roberto can get them to relax in possestion but still burst with speed to attack.

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18m for a 28 year old fullback is a good deal on our part. The bottom line is that fullbacks don't fetch the same prices that forwards do, and if Baines wants to leave, and we can get 16-18m for him, I tihnk we have to take it.

 

As for spending 20m on McCarthy? NO thanks. He's a good player, but not worth 20m.

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to buy him for 12 million would be a waste never mind 20 hate dw what a cunt wont be happy if another wigan player comes. get someone with a bit of class these young english players are never going to live up to the hype and teams seem to think a 18-24 year old player guarentees you 20 million these days. look abroad we need movement in our team and there's very few who have that from england, they all seem to stand still and pass sidewards, gets you nothing, neville in midfield proved that. you need to be able to pass forward on the floor and the rest of the team need to move, not seen enough of that except when we have beaten good teams in the past at goodison we always seem to be scared of keeping the ball i hope roberto can get them to relax in possestion but still burst with speed to attack.

McCarthy isn't English.

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I think we'll get him for the price we've initially offered. Wigan are trying to be a big club and demand stupid fees but it won't work. They're a small club, McCarthy will kick up a fuss if he's got a genuine chance of joining Everton in the Premier League.

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Got to say, I disagree with the Pienaar bashing. Even though his stats were poor, he was still a major player and influence in the amazing stats Baines had.

 

 

 

He was bloody frustrating though last season. He has never been the best in the final thrird but normally be makes up for it with his good work before that (normally with Baines!). However this season he went through large spells of unproductivity and when that happens he isn't much use to anyone.

 

He is an important part of the team but he rightfully deserves stick at stages of last season. It was good to see him buck his ides up again towards the end though!

 

I would agree with a lot of that Bailey. After seeing him play as an attacking midfielder with two holding behind him yesterday, I'd be happy to see more of him in that role.

With Mirallas and Coleman on one side, Baines and another on the left, I think Pienaar would be good floating side to side to help link up play for all of them.

 

I don't think we need McCarthy, unless we sell Fellaini. I'd rather keep Fellaini.

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I think we're dangerously low on midfield options really. Fellaini, Gibson and Osman are our only proven first team options for 3 positions! Then there's Barkley as well, but he's really only an option for one of the midfield positions (the one furthest forward). As much as I like Osman, he's a bit of a defensive liability. I would feel much more confident if he would be a bench option. I'm sure McCarthy would get into the team ahead of him. I'm also fairly confident he would get into the team ahead of Gibson as well and he'll likely miss a fair chunk of the season anyway.

 

So I think we need at least another holding player with technical ability. McCarthy is probably high on Martinez wish list for that role, Jorginho might be on it as well. I'd probably still be willing to pay 12m for McCarthy, but if they want much more we should move on to plan B. And I think we could do with another number 10 as well to be honest, though we likely won't have anymore funds for that.

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I think we'll get him for the price we've initially offered. Wigan are trying to be a big club and demand stupid fees but it won't work. They're a small club, McCarthy will kick up a fuss if he's got a genuine chance of joining Everton in the Premier League.

 

Have we actually made an offer for him then?

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A bit of paper talk for the last few weeks, this one the latest: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/everton-transfers-james-mccarthys-move-2052191

 

£20m?! No chance. He may turn out to be a £20m talent if he fulfills his potential. If we have bid £12m then it says that Fellaini is pretty much offski....

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I think we're dangerously low on midfield options really. Fellaini, Gibson and Osman are our only proven first team options for 3 positions! Then there's Barkley as well, but he's really only an option for one of the midfield positions (the one furthest forward). As much as I like Osman, he's a bit of a defensive liability. I would feel much more confident if he would be a bench option. I'm sure McCarthy would get into the team ahead of him. I'm also fairly confident he would get into the team ahead of Gibson as well and he'll likely miss a fair chunk of the season anyway.

 

So I think we need at least another holding player with technical ability. McCarthy is probably high on Martinez wish list for that role, Jorginho might be on it as well. I'd probably still be willing to pay 12m for McCarthy, but if they want much more we should move on to plan B. And I think we could do with another number 10 as well to be honest, though we likely won't have anymore funds for that.

 

I wouldn't say we are dangerously low. I agree we only have Fellaini, Gibson and Osman. But they are competing for two positions, not three. The third midfielder will be given a lot more freedom, just how Swansea used to set up under Roberto, and how Wigan did before they reverted to three at the back.

I'd like McCarthy, and I rate him, but the point we know can gather is that it will be him or Fellaini. And I'd rather keep Fellaini. If we could have both and have all four of them competing for the two places then great, but can Everton afford that? They will all be on healthy wages, I'm not so sure we can.

 

I agree we could do with another number ten, at the moment I think we only have Pienaar (I rate Barkley but I'd rather get him on loan somewhere for the full season to progress) but I think we could do with another to push us on. Maybe the Spanish kid will play there?

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McCarthy versus Fellaini:- for me Felli has the strength, aerial ability and control to be the best of his type around. For me where he lacks is where mccarthy excels - he is a fully commited team player. He runs himself into the ground, is technically competent with a good array of passing. He is disciplined and consistent.

 

Fellaini has far greater potential but for me doesn't show it enough. For hald the price of what we can sell felli (£24m and mccarthy £12m is ok by me)

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I wouldn't say we are dangerously low. I agree we only have Fellaini, Gibson and Osman. But they are competing for two positions, not three. The third midfielder will be given a lot more freedom, just how Swansea used to set up under Roberto, and how Wigan did before they reverted to three at the back.

I'd like McCarthy, and I rate him, but the point we know can gather is that it will be him or Fellaini. And I'd rather keep Fellaini. If we could have both and have all four of them competing for the two places then great, but can Everton afford that? They will all be on healthy wages, I'm not so sure we can.

 

I agree we could do with another number ten, at the moment I think we only have Pienaar (I rate Barkley but I'd rather get him on loan somewhere for the full season to progress) but I think we could do with another to push us on. Maybe the Spanish kid will play there?

I wouldn't say we are low in midfield but i don't think we are a unit either. Gibson will always have fitness concerns, Osman, consistency, Fellaini(see Haf's post above) and i've never hidden the fact im no huge fan of Pienaar.

Loan Barkley? that's just crazy might as well just sell him at least he would bring some money in. Martinez should be looking to build a squad round the likes of him and Coleman. I really don't see the point of continually loaning youngsters, if they are NOT good enough to play first team, then they are not ever going to be. It's ok at 16/17/18 but after that they should be involved with first team imo.

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I agree we could do with another number ten, at the moment I think we only have Pienaar (I rate Barkley but I'd rather get him on loan somewhere for the full season to progress) but I think we could do with another to push us on. Maybe the Spanish kid will play there?

 

I think Ossie has all the tools and ability to play that role too, although not every week as his legs aren't up to it. I could see him and Pienaar being rotated in that position, with Barkley their understudy as he learns the role.

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I wouldn't say we are dangerously low. I agree we only have Fellaini, Gibson and Osman.

 

I think we're dangerously low on midfield options really. Fellaini, Gibson and Osman are our only proven first team options for 3 positions!

 

Ossie was a big concern for me last season, went missing far too often. Great player on his day, but he is a squad player for me if we are to improve in the engine room and progress.

 

Since when is Ossie a CM though, or DCM? He was again played out of position most of last season and most of his career under Moyes. He is an AMC, sitting behind the striker, jinking and turning the on-rushing defenders and laying it off to the striker.

 

Which makes me agree with Steve_E. We are very low - there is only Felli and Gibson to play CM. Pienaar, Ossie, Barkley, even Naismith are too attacking to sit and hold the midfield, which leaves us looking at the youth to the likes of Junior and Lundstrum that could do that job.

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Ossie was a big concern for me last season, went missing far too often. Great player on his day, but he is a squad player for me if we are to improve in the engine room and progress.

 

Me too, but as we've just given him a new contract it looks like he'll be around for this season at least so that's the only position I'd be comfortable to see him from time to time. Too slow to play wide and too weak to play a deeper CM role.

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Ossie was a big concern for me last season, went missing far too often. Great player on his day, but he is a squad player for me if we are to improve in the engine room and progress.

 

Must admit he is one of my concerns too. I think we have him and Barkley who are 50/50 type players at the different stages of their career. Barkley is improving all the time but isnt the finished article and his performance will be up and down and Osman is probably now starting the decline of his career where I wouldnt want to have to play him week in week out. If both stay fit and can share that attacking midfield role I would be reasonably happy but that is unlikely.

 

 

 

 

Since when is Ossie a CM though, or DCM? He was again played out of position most of last season and most of his career under Moyes. He is an AMC, sitting behind the striker, jinking and turning the on-rushing defenders and laying it off to the striker.

 

Which makes me agree with Steve_E. We are very low - there is only Felli and Gibson to play CM. Pienaar, Ossie, Barkley, even Naismith are too attacking to sit and hold the midfield, which leaves us looking at the youth to the likes of Junior and Lundstrum that could do that job.

 

Yeh thats a good point too. I could see Junior doing pretty well in that defensive role as he looks pretty solid on the ball and whilst I havent seen enough of his positioning etc I think he has the technical ability to step up.

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For me, our midfield is nothing like the strength it once was, either in numbers or class / form.

 

We shouldn't presume we are selling Fellaini just because we want to invest in this area. It is by far our weakest, and by far our priority in my opinion. I would imagine that it will be a hardball deal that could take until late in the window in order to get the guys we want.

 

It is possible that so far we've milked the cheap and cheerful, in order to capture main targets.

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I've never liked the idea of Osman playing behind the striker. He's got great feet, quick over five yards or so. But in all the years I can't remember him playing enough balls through to the front man for me to want him to play up there.

I don't think he's solid enough to play deeper either,but as back up to Fellaini and Gibson I don't mind.

 

My point about McCarthy was that I think we can only get him if we lose Fellaini and I'd rather just keep him.

 

With Barkley, yeah the kids got talent, but I doubt Roberto will have him down as a first choice. In which case I'd rather see him go and get 40 games next season with another club an improve, he's missed enough football already.

 

Between junior, lundstrum and Barkley, chances are none of them will make it. I'm not doubting they have talent, but about 9/10 don't make it. Baxter, Kissock, Vaughan, not trying to be on a downer about these kids, just remember all the kids who didn't make it while we hope the next lot do.

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I've never liked the idea of Osman playing behind the striker. He's got great feet, quick over five yards or so. But in all the years I can't remember him playing enough balls through to the front man for me to want him to play up there.

I don't think he's solid enough to play deeper either,but as back up to Fellaini and Gibson I don't mind.

 

 

 

And his shooting ability is, well, embarrassing.

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Once in a while he gets it right and scores a beaut.

 

 

The once in a while bit means he shouldn't be considered to play that role. You want someone there who will do it more consistently than that. And, like you, I don't think he plays enough through balls etc to warrant playing there as well.

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I've never liked the idea of Osman playing behind the striker. He's got great feet, quick over five yards or so. But in all the years I can't remember him playing enough balls through to the front man for me to want him to play up there.

can you remember how many times hes played in that position, rather than RW/LW or CDM? Cant make the pass if youre not playing in the position!

 

Agree on his shooting though, its more miss than hit!

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can you remember how many times hes played in that position, rather than RW/LW or CDM? Cant make the pass if youre not playing in the position!

 

Agree on his shooting though, its more miss than hit!

 

I know he hasn't played there a lot, but in 11 years under Moyes surely if he could do it he would have had more chances? I know he preferred Cahill in that role, but now I'm actually thinking about Moyes changing his style. I've lost it. Ignore me. Where has this come from?

Meltdown.

 

(Edit) not a Moyes bashing post by the way.

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I've never liked the idea of Osman playing behind the striker. He's got great feet, quick over five yards or so. But in all the years I can't remember him playing enough balls through to the front man for me to want him to play up there.

I don't think he's solid enough to play deeper either,but as back up to Fellaini and Gibson I don't mind.

 

My point about McCarthy was that I think we can only get him if we lose Fellaini and I'd rather just keep him.

 

With Barkley, yeah the kids got talent, but I doubt Roberto will have him down as a first choice. In which case I'd rather see him go and get 40 games next season with another club an improve, he's missed enough football already.

 

Between junior, lundstrum and Barkley, chances are none of them will make it. I'm not doubting they have talent, but about 9/10 don't make it. Baxter, Kissock, Vaughan, not trying to be on a downer about these kids, just remember all the kids who didn't make it while we hope the next lot do.

 

I think he is probably better there than you think. I agree that both him (and Pienaar) do a lot of the hard work before fluffing their lines but their movement, work rate and ability to read the game (even if they can always execute it) mean that they are still the best players for the job in the current squad.

 

I would much rather have either of them in that position than anyone else (bar Barkley on occasions).

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Just reading the thoughts on other's regarding Osman and playing him in that role and Bilyaletdinov's name popped into My head straigt away I'd have loved to have seen Him here under Martinez and in the kind of system he plays I personally think he'd have flourished.

 

Anyway random thoughts aside I'd love to have McCarthy here but only for the right money £10/12m but does have the potential to become a more valuable player.

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If we spend 13.5m on Mccarthy we want our heads testing.

 

How much was Gibson again ?

 

If we would have bid for McCarthy, Whelan would have confirmed it on Sky News immediately. I agree we shouldn't be paying that much for him though. On the other hand, Kevin Strootman went to Roma for 15m a couple of days ago though and I think he's of a similar quality to McCarthy. I don't think it's a particularly outrageous amount of money for him, I just don't think we should be the ones paying it.

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No chance we're spending that much money on a central midfielder, unless other players are already as good as out the door. Someone to cover Gibbo definitely makes sense, but we're not a club that spends 13.5 million on cover.

 

Besides which, Mail reports we already failed with a 12m bid and as already pointed out, we've not heard squat from Whelan and he'd be all over this.

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£15m is about £5m too much - that's being conservative. However he does tick many boxes in terms of what we need. He has tremendous potential, professionalism, and he is a very good player who will improve with quality around him.

 

On the scale of things £15m ain't a crazy amount to pay for a player who can be one of the best of his type, it's just too much for the likes of us.

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£15m is about £5m too much - that's being conservative. However he does tick many boxes in terms of what we need. He has tremendous potential, professionalism, and he is a very good player who will improve with quality around him.

 

On the scale of things £15m ain't a crazy amount to pay for a player who can be one of the best of his type, it's just too much for the likes of us.

I agree. it's clubs like the shite that pay 20m for Jordan Henderson that give teams like Wigan the idea their players are worth more than they are.

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Ive got to say I really really rate McCarthy. You know when you watch other teams and some players just stand out a mile and you think "how good is he?". I know its a lot of money but Caulker has just gone to Cardiff for £9 mill and has made probably 20 starts in the prem? McCarthy has has 2-3 seasons in the centre of midfield in the prem in a struggling team and SHONE. He is a box to box midfielder that breaks up play, can get on the end of things and knows exactly what Martinez wants and obviously thrives on it. His wages wont be massive and if we can get him for £13 mill or roundabouts will be money well spent

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I rate this lad too and think he would be the perfect addition to the squad. The Independent and the Express are both reporting today that Newcastle are interested in him now, and the Indy article says that although Wigan value him at £20m, both Newcastle and Everton believe he can be signed for "significantly less".

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/wigans-james-mccarthy-next-in-line-with-bafetimbi-gomis-on-verge-of-newcastle-switch-8744474.html

 

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/419427/Newcastle-looking-to-see-off-Everton-for-Wigan-s-James-McCarthy?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-express-sport-news+%28Daily+Express+%3A%3A+Sport+Feed%29

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Well let's hope that "significantly" is about £10m less because he'll get his arse kicked good and proper by some on here if we sign him for more and he doesn't bag 50 goals and win The Golden Boot, 3 seasons in a row! That'll learn the useless fucker! :)

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