c1982 Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 It's all about the money these days and whatever words come out of players' mouths it is always about the money. I don't actually think this is fully true when it comes to Lukaku. He wants to play Champions League football as soon as possible. He could get £120-150k at us but that doesn't give him the platform he wants to play on yet. He may well get a better contract at a club with Champions League football but I just get the impression it's the playing at a higher level/winning things that he's after primarily. Sibdane and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 United - replace Ibra, back with Mou, feasible City - No chance Spurs- No chance Chelsea - replace Costa, feasible Liverpool - no chance Arsenal - no chance PSG - Unless Cavani leaves, no chance Dortmund - No chance, even if Auba leaves none of the other big sides in big leagues need/want/could afford him. It's Chelsea and United and that's it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Bayern? Always thought he'd end up there personally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) Bayern? Always thought he'd end up there personally they don't spend that kind of money on players. the only teams that do are Real, Barca, Juve, PSG, Monaco, and premier league teams. in fact one of their board was bragging about how non galactico they are in terms of spending money. i think 40-50m might be the most they've ever spent on 1 player. Edited April 21, 2017 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Not followed then since I changed jobs 5 years ago, so I'll bow you your better judgement They could always do money and a player though. Isn't Reus on the move or am I that out of date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Not followed then since I changed jobs 5 years ago, so I'll bow you your better judgement They could always do money and a player though. Isn't Reus on the move or am I that out of date? reus is dortmund, they especially buy low sell high. like i said, there are only a couple clubs that break the bank to this kind of money. Real, Barca, PSG, Juve, Chelsea, United, City, Monaco. The rest of the clubs stick to 50m and less. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Blimey, it has been a while. Is it Reus I'm thinking of? There was a lad that went from Dortmund to Bayern, maybe Gotze? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Blimey, it has been a while. Is it Reus I'm thinking of? There was a lad that went from Dortmund to Bayern, maybe Gotze? he went back to dortmund for pennies and is on the bench barely. world cup winner was his peak sadly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Fuck me. When I did watch the Bundesliga, those 2 were immense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 he went back to dortmund for pennies and is on the bench barely. world cup winner was his peak sadly Gotze's got some sort of illness that's virtually ended his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 We should get back to being Everton fans and supporting our team rather than being Lukaku fans. Foootball has never been about one player and it never will be. Same with Ross and the rest. Can't some of us be Rom fans AND Everton fans? Why do we have to choose? Right now I'm just along for the ride. I would love to see him stay, but if it isn't meant to be, then so be it. Everton has a long and decorated history without the guy, and we will continue to win trophies once this current crop of players are long gone. Hopefully the current team can win us something as well. No manager or player will ever be bigger than Everton. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. duncanmckenzieismagic and nutmegwolf203 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) My prediction is that he will go to Utd with £60m plus Rooney coming the other way and some sort of package to cover Rooney's wages in some form of upfront or staggered payment. Other than sentimentality, I can't think why we would ever accept Rooney back. I'll be annoyed if we do. He will never be our main striker, and we have other options for the bench. We're supposed to be a rich club now, so whatever marketability potential he still has shouldn't factor into it either. If United offer 60 mill plus Rooney I'd tell them to piss off. I read their forum, Redcafe, they want his absurd wages off their books more than anyone else's. He's costing them a million a month to do fuck all. We're supposed to be happy they throw him into a deal for one of the most exciting and consistently prolific young strikers in world football? Sod that. Dumping him on us in lieu of more transfer fee for Lukaku would be taking the piss. United spent 90 mill on Pogba. They have cash. They don't have top class strikers. If they want Lukaku they can pay 90 mill. That's my armchair appraisal of the situation. Edited April 21, 2017 by Isaiah Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 One thing Matt said made me think. If Rom is being compared with these players it's something we should enjoy. Over the Moyes years who thought we would end up with a striker we could compare to Zlatan or Aguero? I certainly never. I didn't think we would end up with a striker out scoring them either. I think my own defensiveness towards Rom is because the best striker we've probably had in my generation was Dunc and in really he wasn't special, we just loved him anyway. Almost every game I've been to this season Rom has found the net. He's given me that experience of jumping up and down like a dick head, grabbing my mate by his coat and shaking him while screaming my head off. The experience we all go the game for, and he does it more than anyone else in the league. I enjoy that, I want more of it, and while he keeps giving me that I'll keep supporting him. MikeO and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Scoregasms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 One thing Matt said made me think. If Rom is being compared with these players it's something we should enjoy. Over the Moyes years who thought we would end up with a striker we could compare to Zlatan or Aguero? I certainly never. I didn't think we would end up with a striker out scoring them either. I think my own defensiveness towards Rom is because the best striker we've probably had in my generation was Dunc and in really he wasn't special, we just loved him anyway. Almost every game I've been to this season Rom has found the net. He's given me that experience of jumping up and down like a dick head, grabbing my mate by his coat and shaking him while screaming my head off. The experience we all go the game for, and he does it more than anyone else in the league. I enjoy that, I want more of it, and while he keeps giving me that I'll keep supporting him. I get that I really do... im just pissed off he hasn't allowed me to enjoy him as much as I should have done. There is a saying "you can choose your attitude".... never is this showcased more than with this lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Haf, Rom hasn't stopped you enjoying it. You have stopped yourself. You won't just let yourself enjoy him. You're focusing on the negative all the time, how can you enjoy it when that's how you feel. If you just let it go you'll enjoy the positive in his game like the rest of us. Sibdane, duncanmckenzieismagic and markjazzbassist 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 I think you are missing the point.... look at number of goals to shots. That is all you need to know. You were talking before about goals vs shots on target which is an odd stat. Someone could take 1000 shots and blow them all over the bar but of the 15 they get on target score 15 goals. It essentially gets rid of an element of performance that doesn't look as good as the other. As soon as I seen the stat i knew something was amiss because Rom has a tendency to miss the target high with shots further than 18 yards. If he gets them down more there is a chance of a corner, rebound etc. His long range shooting could be better with the power he has in his left foot. Ironically something he could learn from Kane. Kane has played 800 minutes less (nigh on 9 games) which is why he has a comparable number of shots to Rom. But the comparison is in percentages - so its irrelevant. I'm sorry but the stats on number of shots against the top sides is indicative of how he plays against them. Most strikers will only get a couple of sniffs in these games - he's not alone. The strikers will be doing a job to occupy the back 4 to create space between the lines to take pressure off the rest of the side. Again I find myself repeating the fact that my judgement of him in these games isn't about goals.... it's about him not engaging their defenders. Winning battles, fighting for scraps. In the derby he let their defence have the easiest of afternoons- didn't jump for headers, didn't even go in for a shoulder to shoulder (as highlighted by osman on radio 5)... this culminated in him getting roasted by Baines and Williams against man United..... ever seen a striker get that before? I get it but I was just intrigued. These do include penalties though so that will skew the results. As a comparison of Kane. V Bournemouth (h) - 5 shots V Everton (h) - 6 shots V Liverpool (2 games) - no shots at all! V Utd (a) - 1 shot V Chelsea (2 games) - 1 shot V Soton (a) - 3 shots Looking through his stats he is terrible in the big games. Limited shots (which I was surprised by), very few chances created (less than Rom), barely any take ons, few successful crosses, average passing. He seems to be a flat track bully that takes a month to get going. From an output perspective they are very similar, even their conversion rate is almost identical (32.9% Rom v 32.3% Kane). They are completely different players in terms of how they play but they both get the job done. Kane suits possession teams more, Lukaku counter attacking teams. Kane is more rounded but Lukaku's spikes are higher in some areas and lower in others. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Haf, Rom hasn't stopped you enjoying it. You have stopped yourself. You won't just let yourself enjoy him. You're focusing on the negative all the time, how can you enjoy it when that's how you feel. If you just let it go you'll enjoy the positive in his game like the rest of us. No I haven't... his behaviour with the press, his attitude and indifference to hard work on the pitch aligned with his need to improve on a few aspects despite telling the world he's at x y or z level has pissed me off. He gets excused these things because of his goal tally. Not from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 No I haven't... his behaviour with the press, his attitude and indifference to hard work on the pitch aligned with his need to improve on a few aspects despite telling the world he's at x y or z level has pissed me off. He gets excused these things because of his goal tally. Not from me. Managers orders Martinez teams don't press, McGeady come out saying it was weird being told to leave your runner and stay up top. Under Koeman he's done it. More rounded than he's given credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 I get it but I was just intrigued. These do include penalties though so that will skew the results. As a comparison of Kane. V Bournemouth (h) - 5 shots V Everton (h) - 6 shots V Liverpool (2 games) - no shots at all! V Utd (a) - 1 shot V Chelsea (2 games) - 1 shot V Soton (a) - 3 shots Looking through his stats he is terrible in the big games. Limited shots (which I was surprised by), very few chances created (less than Rom), barely any take ons, few successful crosses, average passing. He seems to be a flat track bully that takes a month to get going. From an output perspective they are very similar, even their conversion rate is almost identical (32.9% Rom v 32.3% Kane). They are completely different players in terms of how they play but they both get the job done. Kane suits possession teams more, Lukaku counter attacking teams. Kane is more rounded but Lukaku's spikes are higher in some areas and lower in others. Again I find myself repeating the same thing over and over again.... lukakus "input" into these games from a team perspective . Selfless running, pressing, challenging. Holding up the ball - relieving the stress from the defence. The last 20 minutes against United he was having shots from 25 yards, taking on a player rather than holding it up. We were 1 nil up and the likes of Baines was screaming at him to help the defence out by keeping hold of the ball.... no chance. He hadn't scored - golden boot before the team. Argue that one all day long if you want. Him trying to nick tom davies goal was evidence enough of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Managers orders Martinez teams don't press, McGeady come out saying it was weird being told to leave your runner and stay up top. Under Koeman he's done it. More rounded than he's given credit for. You'll have to explain what happened the derby and man United game then.... I've never seen Baines lose his shit with a team mate. Williams looked like he was gonna explode. He does fuck all pressing. It's called going through the motions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Again I find myself repeating the same thing over and over again.... lukakus "input" into these games from a team perspective . Selfless running, pressing, challenging. Holding up the ball - relieving the stress from the defence. The last 20 minutes against United he was having shots from 25 yards, taking on a player rather than holding it up. We were 1 nil up and the likes of Baines was screaming at him to help the defence out by keeping hold of the ball.... no chance. He hadn't scored - golden boot before the team. Argue that one all day long if you want. Him trying to nick tom davies goal was evidence enough of that. He was trying to impress his new manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 You'll have to explain what happened the derby and man United game then.... I've never seen Baines lose his shit with a team mate. Williams looked like he was gonna explode. He does fuck all pressing. It's called going through the motions. Ask his midfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Well there you have it.... it's not just the big teams he has a day off against. No service, but easy to defend against today. Made their defence look like world beaters. Should have been off after 70. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Ask his midfield. Your posts are baffling.... the midfielders were marking midfielders.... he was allowing the defenders all the time in the world. Stick to what we are discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 (edited) Well there you have it.... it's not just the big teams he has a day off against. No service, but easy to defend against today. Made their defence look like world beaters. Should have been off after 70. A tight ptch offered him no space but yet again he failed to even try and match the defenders. A peach of a ball was fired in just asking for a header and he got no where near it... his anticipation of the flight of the ball today was abysmal. Citytalk mentioning his bickering with teammates.... I seen him bollock lookman for having a shot which I thought was out of order and ironic. Edited April 22, 2017 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Again I find myself repeating the same thing over and over again.... lukakus "input" into these games from a team perspective . Selfless running, pressing, challenging. Holding up the ball - relieving the stress from the defence. The last 20 minutes against United he was having shots from 25 yards, taking on a player rather than holding it up. We were 1 nil up and the likes of Baines was screaming at him to help the defence out by keeping hold of the ball.... no chance. He hadn't scored - golden boot before the team. Argue that one all day long if you want. Him trying to nick tom davies goal was evidence enough of that. I have already explained the Utd game. The likes of Williams were lumping 40-50 yard balls nowhere near him when he had defenders on the turn or was calling for it short. I know why Williams was shouting at him, because I do the same to my forwards but if the defence cant give him the easy ball to hold up or help bring others into play its no wonder he wasnt chasing everything down at the end of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 I have already explained the Utd game. The likes of Williams were lumping 40-50 yard balls nowhere near him when he had defenders on the turn or was calling for it short. I know why Williams was shouting at him, because I do the same to my forwards but if the defence cant give him the easy ball to hold up or help bring others into play its no wonder he wasnt chasing everything down at the end of the game. You're pissing into the wind Bailey mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 I have already explained the Utd game. The likes of Williams were lumping 40-50 yard balls nowhere near him when he had defenders on the turn or was calling for it short. I know why Williams was shouting at him, because I do the same to my forwards but if the defence cant give him the easy ball to hold up or help bring others into play its no wonder he wasnt chasing everything down at the end of the game. An easy ball from the defence? We weren't passing it to him... unfortunately the situation was that United had committed men forward to try and get an equaliser which meant we were clearing our lines - which meant lukaku needed to put some hard yards in to take some stress off the defence.... he didn't do it. When he did have the ball he was taking ridiculous shots from 25 yards and giving possession straight back. When they won the penalty it came from lukaku on a 2 v 2 losing the ball. I'm getting really tired of repeating very valid points about these games. His performance was inexcusable so why try to excuse it? As for today... I don't think I've seen a player head fresh air so many times in 90 minutes. There was a great opportunity to score and he allowed names Collins to win the header.... zero desire yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 In the interest of balance I thought I would run through some more stats from the top 7 and their main strikers against the other top 7 clubs. I have used evidence from the striker that has been mainly used to lead the line. In the examples of Sanchez and Firminho they have also played wide so you would expect their stats to be a little different however its worth looking at, especially in their comparison to the value to their team in comparison to Rom (who despite limited service was still dreadful today). Lukaku - 9 games - 15 shots - 3 goals - 3 chances created. Kane - 9 games - 11 shots - 3 goals - 6 chances created. Sanchez - 11 games - 17 shots - 2 goals - 20 chances created Costa - 11 games - 26 shots - 3 goals - 10 chances created Firminho - 12 games - 25 shots - 1 goal - 19 chances created Aguero - 9 games - 35 shots - 3 goals - 4 chances created Ibrahimovic - 7 games - 28 shots - 4 goals - 3 chances created All of these strikers bar Lukaku and Firminho take pens so that could skew a couple of stats, but it wont be by much. Stats cant show how the player actually did during the game but I think it can give us an idea how of the team were supplying the striker (shots) and also how the striker was involved in the game and his teammates (chances created). Both Lukaku and Kane do bloody well at converting the few chances they get. Even more so in respect of Lukaku when you consider that he solely created two of his chances (and goals) - Man City (away) and Spurs (away). As probably expected the two "midfield" strikers have created more, especially as they are both probably involved in freekicks and corners. Of the two you would take Firminho, I hadn't realised how important he was to Liverpool in these big games. Both Aguero and Ibra have a crazy amount of shots in these big games but surprisingly havent converted as many. Likewise, they havent created as much for their teammates. Both are managed by arguably the best managers in the league and are alongside world class players so they consistently get much better service than the likes of Kane or Rom. I think these stats show that whilst Rom doesnt get as much service as the other big strikers in the league, he also doesn't appear to contribute as much to the team either. As I have said before, Rom can definitely be replaced however its just a case of how quickly we can get a quality player in to replace him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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