Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[Hafnia]

15 shots in 7 games. 8 on target. 2 goals. It's not just the service.....

 

Naismith for example has 9 shots. 5 on target. 4 goals.

 

We've scored 13 league goals. Only 2 teams have scored more. It's not as if we haven't been creating anything going forward...well until the last 2.5 games.

 

Look at Costa (apologies to use him again! Just bare with me!). 19 shots. 16 on target. 9 goals. He's only had 4 shots more than Lukaku! Although Costas probably just going through a purple patch. You'll also probably say 'yeah well, Costas better, cost more, has better players around him etc etc'.

 

Ok. Fair enough. Let's look at Berahino at WBA. 16 shots. 10 on target. 5 goals.

 

I think the main point is, Lukaku is not being starved of service. He just isn't doing too well just now.

 

Nobody expects him to do all the jobs of a winger, attacking mid and the chef. Just to be the striker we expect him to be.

 

That's not being harsh or unrealistic or over critical. That's reality.

 

Like jags, Distin, Stones, Howard, Baines, Barry, Mccarthy have all been criticised for not doing their role properly...so to is Lukaku. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand? If I don't do my job properly, my Area Manager tells me so. Isn't that real life?

 

I'm sure he'll come good. We need him to. But at the moment, it's uncomfortable to say that many of Haf's points are starting to gain weight. And I don't like that.

I don't like the fact that they've gained weight, cos for me it's £28 million pounds we've spent on someone who needs to be played like djibrill cisse.

 

Sure put the ball in the box for him and he will find the net, so could jelavic.

 

If it's ahead of him he can run onto it. That's great if you want to score 25 goals in the championship. Defences are smart in the premier league. I watched Dave Watson play a nice deep line against Michael Owen which allowed martyn to sweep up through balls, Owen couldn't do anything else.

 

His good games are the exception rather than the rule, we seen this in the world cup. I fear Divock Origi will arrive for that lot next year and take his place as the best Belgian striker.

[MC11]

 

15 shots in 7 games. 8 on target. 2 goals. It's not just the service.....

Naismith for example has 9 shots. 5 on target. 4 goals.

We've scored 13 league goals. Only 2 teams have scored more. It's not as if we haven't been creating anything going forward...well until the last 2.5 games.

Look at Costa (apologies to use him again! Just bare with me!). 19 shots. 16 on target. 9 goals. He's only had 4 shots more than Lukaku! Although Costas probably just going through a purple patch. You'll also probably say 'yeah well, Costas better, cost more, has better players around him etc etc'.

Ok. Fair enough. Let's look at Berahino at WBA. 16 shots. 10 on target. 5 goals.

I think the main point is, Lukaku is not being starved of service. He just isn't doing too well just now.

Nobody expects him to do all the jobs of a winger, attacking mid and the chef. Just to be the striker we expect him to be.

That's not being harsh or unrealistic or over critical. That's reality.

Like jags, Distin, Stones, Howard, Baines, Barry, Mccarthy have all been criticised for not doing their role properly...so to is Lukaku. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand? If I don't do my job properly, my Area Manager tells me so. Isn't that real life?

I'm sure he'll come good. We need him to. But at the moment, it's uncomfortable to say that many of Haf's points are starting to gain weight. And I don't like that.

You're saying he's had 15 "shots". He had about 5 of them from long range against Liverpool, self made opportunities. Tell me how many he's had in the 18 yard box, how many times a player has given him a "clear cut" opportunity.

 

I guarantee Costa's had more opportunities in the box,more "clear cut" - important phrase.

Edited October 5, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[JoeQuince]

I like an anology but is that one saying Lukaku is the equivalent to a set of crayons?

 

I'd probably agree, thick, cumbersome, overpriced, and can be found in an 8 year olds back pocket.

No... I believe our squad right now is the set of crayons.

[Hafnia]

You're saying he's had 15 "shots". He had about 5 of them from long range against Liverpool, self made opportunities. Tell me how many he's had in the 18 yard box, how many times a player has given him a "clear cut" opportunity.

 

I guarantee Costa's had more opportunities in the box,more "clear cut" - important phrase.

Yeah I think we need to purify the shooting stats to remove all "that was Fuckin stupid shooting from there" shots.

[Newty82]

You're saying he's had 15 "shots". He had about 5 of them from long range against Liverpool, self made opportunities. Tell me how many he's had in the 18 yard box, how many times a player has given him a "clear cut" opportunity.

 

I guarantee Costa's had more opportunities in the box,more "clear cut" - important phrase.

I just went through all the games from Opta stats. I counted 13 attempts inside the box. 2 long rangers vs liverpool. 3 long rangers against WBA. Scored one of them. So he's maybe had more shots than previously stated because I counted about 6 long rangers in total.

 

Whatever, it's clear to see he's not on song. And that's all I'm saying. He's out of form and not above criticism. Part of it is possibly that we are not playing him correctly.

 

But all this stuff that he needs players buzzing around him, chances put on a plate for him, clear cut chances created for him. Fuck me, so we have paid 28million for a player who needs to be spoon fed the ball?! Come on. That can't be right.

[MC11]

I just went through all the games from Opta stats. I counted 13 attempts inside the box. 2 long rangers vs liverpool. 3 long rangers against WBA. Scored one of them. So he's maybe had more shots than previously stated because I counted about 6 long rangers in total.

Whatever, it's clear to see he's not on song. And that's all I'm saying. He's out of form and not above criticism. Part of it is possibly that we are not playing him correctly.

But all this stuff that he needs players buzzing around him, chances put on a plate for him, clear cut chances created for him. Fuck me, so we have paid 28million for a player who needs to be spoon fed the ball?! Come on. That can't be right.

The price tag isn't down to him. That's the thing. Look at your manager for that.

[Shukes]

The price tag isn't down to him. That's the thing. Look at your manager for that.

What would you say would have been a good price for him?

[MC11]

What would you say would have been a good price for him?

£18m

[Newty82]

The price tag isn't down to him. That's the thing. Look at your manager for that.

No. The thing is that he is off form and not performing. 5 million. 10 million. 59 million. 21, 25 or 55 year old. He ain't doing it just now. Whether it's confidence or the weight of expectation. I don't know.

 

I've bit my tongue after a fair few games because I wanted to wait and see, while everyone else in the side gets criticised but how often do we see attacks breaking down with him at the ball? I ain't having a dig at his ability but something isn't right just now.

 

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2219244-belgium-striker-romelu-lukaku-is-still-to-reach-full-maturity-at-everton

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-analysis-greg-okeeffe-faltering-7885669

 

I think he needs taken out. Put Eto'o in. Lukaku needs to be taken out purely on current performance grounds. Get him out of the limelight. Refocus and get some hunger back.

 

Hopefully he'll bounce back sooner rather than later. Then we can all clap our hands again.

[Kant]

I was expecting Martinez to use Eto'o as an element of pressure and competition. Maybe now is the moment to start the proven goalscorer...

 

P.S.: I still believe in Lukaku, but he needs to show more and to realize he is the only striker in the team, responsible to score goals and to win the game for the team. For a technically wonderful big and strong player that does not score goals I prefer to see Balotelli down the road.

[Romey 1878]

No. The thing is that he is off form and not performing. 5 million. 10 million. 59 million. 21, 25 or 55 year old. He ain't doing it just now. Whether it's confidence or the weight of expectation. I don't know.

 

I've bit my tongue after a fair few games because I wanted to wait and see, while everyone else in the side gets criticised but how often do we see attacks breaking down with him at the ball? I ain't having a dig at his ability but something isn't right just now.

 

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2219244-belgium-striker-romelu-lukaku-is-still-to-reach-full-maturity-at-everton

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-analysis-greg-okeeffe-faltering-7885669

 

I think he needs taken out. Put Eto'o in. Lukaku needs to be taken out purely on current performance grounds. Get him out of the limelight. Refocus and get some hunger back.

 

Hopefully he'll bounce back sooner rather than later. Then we can all clap our hands again.

 

The thing is though Eto'o hasn't looked great when he's started either. He's looked much like Lukaku tbh. But has looked very handy when coming off the bench.

[Newty82]

 

The thing is though Eto'o hasn't looked great when he's started either. He's looked much like Lukaku tbh. But has looked very handy when coming off the bench.

I think his link up play is much better though. Reverse the roles for a bit...Eto'o starts, Lukaku comes on.

[MC11]

I think Naismith has been the best forward, so maybe we should stick with him. Agree with Romey Eto'o hasn't been brilliant when he's started. But he should definitely be getting more minutes

[Matt]

Im amazed that the price tag is still a criticism. Its not like he put himself up in the window telling Everton this was the price to sign him. If you have a problem with the pricetag, blame the 2 clubs and not the player.

[Matt]

I like an anology but is that one saying Lukaku is the equivalent to a set of crayons?

 

I'd probably agree, thick, cumbersome, overpriced, and can be found in an 8 year olds back pocket.

You know full well thats not what I meant

 

You are only as good an artist as the tools you are supplied with. You are only as good a striker as the service you are supplied with.

[Newty82]

Im amazed that the price tag is still a criticism. Its not like he put himself up in the window telling Everton this was the price to sign him. If you have a problem with the pricetag, blame the 2 clubs and not the player.

No problem with price tag. Defo not his fault. Just a problem with performance.

[Matt]

No problem with price tag. Defo not his fault. Just a problem with performance.

Its not a point for you mate. The amount of time we hear "for 28m I expect better" is annoying the hell out of him. Just because we overpaid, and we did, doesn't give the lad additional skill. Its got no relation to how he plays so why is it used as a criticism?

[Newty82]

You know full well thats not what I meant

 

You are only as good an artist as the tools you are supplied with. You are only as good a striker as the service you are supplied with.

But he's had service???? Unless all his opportunities have been created purely by himself? I know you're pro Lukaku, but when a player isn't doing well...you can't just blame everyone around him. I bet he knows he isn't on top of his game just now. I suppose that's the most important thing.

[Newty82]

Its not a point for you mate. The amount of time we hear "for 28m I expect better" is annoying the hell out of him. Just because we overpaid, and we did, doesn't give the lad additional skill. Its got no relation to how he plays so why is it used as a criticism?

I think it brings expectation from fans. That's only natural. Besides, we haven't paid 28mill. I don't think we'll get to that point! Like I dont think we ever saw the full 29mill for Rooney (I don't think? !)

[MC11]

Newty he isn't getting chances though is he. You say he's had 15 "shots" shots don't mean real chances. Especially those from long range or in obscure positions.

[Matt]

But he's had service???? Unless all his opportunities have been created purely by himself? I know you're pro Lukaku, but when a player isn't doing well...you can't just blame everyone around him. I bet he knows he isn't on top of his game just now. I suppose that's the most important thing.

Has he? I've only see us play to his strengths a few times this season, and he scored from the through ball from the creative player behind him providing him a chance.

 

No one is playing that great, even Stones was having a dodgy game against United. It just seems the price tag just justifies Rom being made into a scapegoat; you're our record signing, you should be making everything better. Football just doesnt work like that.

 

I may be pro-Lukaku but I'm also going to criticism him when its justified. I called for him to be dropped just yesterday!

 

 

I think it brings expectation from fans. That's only natural. Besides, we haven't paid 28mill. I don't think we'll get to that point! Like I dont think we ever saw the full 29mill for Rooney (I don't think? !)

We will never get to 28m, it will have been based on CL qualification (which could still happen, the season has a loooong way to go).

Edited October 6, 2014 by Matt

[Hafnia]

When we say "chances" - has Naismith had it laid on a plate for him? He is using his guile, tenacity and desire to get in the positions - he is working for the team, getting in defenders faces and is doing so with a real desire in the way Cahill used to.

 

Lukaku is doing is best Louis "Can't really be bothered" Saha impression - things aren't going for me and boo hoo. I seen this at the world cup and it culminated with a strop in being brought off. Origi went on and showed him what it was all about.

 

As i've said, he has been a "top boy" for too long - far too used to getting his own way and owning the pitch. He's playing against fully grown, international class defenders now, not some journey man belgian league defender who looks at a 6ft 4 frame and decides "its not my day today before the ball is kicked".

 

I could almost tolerate some of his bad touches but he just really doesn't want to know. Mate was in the away end and many of the blue fans were disgusted with him yesterday, not from a technical stand point but the fact that a 19 year old novice had him in his pocket and he accepted it.

 

Whether the price tag has nothing to do with him or not, he is getting paid £75k+ a week to at least show some willing.

[Matt]

When we say "chances" - has Naismith had it laid on a plate for him? He is using his guile, tenacity and desire to get in the positions - he is working for the team, getting in defenders faces and is doing so with a real desire in the way Cahill used to.

 

Lukaku is doing is best Louis "Can't really be bothered" Saha impression - things aren't going for me and boo hoo. I seen this at the world cup and it culminated with a strop in being brought off. Origi went on and showed him what it was all about.

 

As i've said, he has been a "top boy" for too long - far too used to getting his own way and owning the pitch. He's playing against fully grown, international class defenders now, not some journey man belgian league defender who looks at a 6ft 4 frame and decides "its not my day today before the ball is kicked".

 

I could almost tolerate some of his bad touches but he just really doesn't want to know. Mate was in the away end and many of the blue fans were disgusted with him yesterday, not from a technical stand point but the fact that a 19 year old novice had him in his pocket and he accepted it.

 

Whether the price tag has nothing to do with him or not, he is getting paid £75k+ a week to at least show some willing.

This Origi nonsense again?! Lukaku wears out the defence and a young pace monster comes on an wins the game - Lukaku isnt good enough. Then agaisnt the US Origi wears out the defence and Lukaku wins the game - Origi did all the work. So unbalanced its hilarious.

 

Naismith has used his intelligence and experience no doubt, but he also has space created by Lukaku making runs and taking defenders away to create space (which is what an AMC should be doing for the striker).

 

I'll say again... Lukaku was knackered at halftime because of all the work he was doing in the final 3rd. Did your mates tell you he was the only one near the United defenders because we were playing 4-5-0-0-0-0-1? He certainly didn't work hard enough in the second half, but I put that down to his workrate in the 1st. Martinez should've taken him off at half time, after 60mins he was doing nothing other than being a target.

 

I'll also say again that McNair had to deal with an isolated, unsupported and eventually exhausted single threat with aid of Rojo. The one ball Lukaku actually got in the 1st half, he controlled and rolled McNair like he wasn't there. Shame about the finish, he should've run on with it a bit.

 

He needs dropping, he needs training on his fitness first and foremost. But all of this is in the hands of the manager so lets place the criticism where its due.

[Newty82]

Newty he isn't getting chances though is he. You say he's had 15 "shots" shots don't mean real chances. Especially those from long range or in obscure positions.

See this is where is gets frustrating.

 

I brought up the shots thing because you said he wasn't getting any service and that his conversion rate of chances to goals would be high. Which it isnt. Then you say 'yeah but most of them will be long range'. Which they aren't. Now you say they aren't real chances?! What the hell?! So what's a real chance? Inside the 6 yard box? Jeez, most of us could be a premiership striker if all we have to do is stand inside the 6 yard box and tap it in.

 

Neither you or Matt are doing him, or your arguments any justice. So bring the two together. Real chances need to be created for him, and most of his shots being inside the area don't count as 'chances'. He also can only perform if the ball is played through to him.

 

I don't mind the bloke. I like what he can bring when on song. But you 2 are turning me against him! Seriously, you're making me think we have a dudd here.

 

He needs to and can do better. It's not writing him off, he just needs to dig in and grit his teeth more. Show more determination. And yes, Roberto needs to play his part. And quickly.

[Matt]

See this is where is gets frustrating.

 

I brought up the shots thing because you said he wasn't getting any service and that his conversion rate of chances to goals would be high. Which it isnt. Then you say 'yeah but most of them will be long range'. Which they aren't. Now you say they aren't real chances?! What the hell?! So what's a real chance? Inside the 6 yard box? Jeez, most of us could be a premiership striker if all we have to do is stand inside the 6 yard box and tap it in.

 

Neither you or Matt are doing him, or your arguments any justice. So bring the two together. Real chances need to be created for him, and most of his shots being inside the area don't count as 'chances'. He also can only perform if the ball is played through to him.

 

I don't mind the bloke. I like what he can bring when on song. But you 2 are turning me against him! Seriously, you're making me think we have a dudd here.

 

He needs to and can do better. It's not writing him off, he just needs to dig in and grit his teeth more. Show more determination. And yes, Roberto needs to play his part. And quickly.

No doubt about it.

 

I didn't bring up shots, my argument is service.

 

21 shots in 7 games (average 3 shots a game), scores 2 and creates 1. Doesn't sound like a whole lot of chances to me.

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/139437/romelu-lukaku

 

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=56521

[Newty82]

Thanks for the links. So let's look at his fellow strikers:

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/95410/diego-costa

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/151276/saido-berahino

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/67327/leonardo-ulloa

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/44927/sergio-ag%c3%bcero

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/138561/diafra-sakho

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/108763/steven-naismith

 

The list goes on. You'll notice though that they all have similar shot amounts (or less). So are we saying all Premiership strikers are starved of service?

Edited October 6, 2014 by Newty82

[Newty82]

Ha...I edited it...but didn't edit it.

[Matt]

Thanks for the links. So let's look at his fellow strikers:

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/95410/diego-costa

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/151276/saido-berahino

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/67327/leonardo-ulloa

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/44927/sergio-ag%c3%bcero

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/138561/diafra-sakho

 

http://www.espnfc.com/player/108763/steven-naismith

 

The list goes on. You'll notice though that they all have similar shot amounts (or less). So are we saying all Premiership strikers are starved of service?

Not at all. I don't get the point though, who cares about other teams?

 

Our striker isn't getting good enough service, and is not being played properly (in my opinion).

[Hafnia]

This Origi nonsense again?! Lukaku wears out the defence and a young pace monster comes on an wins the game - Lukaku isnt good enough. Then agaisnt the US Origi wears out the defence and Lukaku wins the game - Origi did all the work. So unbalanced its hilarious.

 

Naismith has used his intelligence and experience no doubt, but he also has space created by Lukaku making runs and taking defenders away to create space (which is what an AMC should be doing for the striker).

 

I'll say again... Lukaku was knackered at halftime because of all the work he was doing in the final 3rd. Did your mates tell you he was the only one near the United defenders because we were playing 4-5-0-0-0-0-1? He certainly didn't work hard enough in the second half, but I put that down to his workrate in the 1st. Martinez should've taken him off at half time, after 60mins he was doing nothing other than being a target.

 

I'll also say again that McNair had to deal with an isolated, unsupported and eventually exhausted single threat with aid of Rojo. The one ball Lukaku actually got in the 1st half, he controlled and rolled McNair like he wasn't there. Shame about the finish, he should've run on with it a bit.

 

He needs dropping, he needs training on his fitness first and foremost. But all of this is in the hands of the manager so lets place the criticism where its due.

 

I've seen enough of his "exhausted the defences" nonsense - he actually doesn't! Against Algeria in the world cup he failed to register one touch in the area. Against South Korea he was anonymous. Origi was getting on at around 60 minutes against supposed tired defenders.

 

Lukaku got on at 94 minutes against a USA team that had ran an average of 12km per man - bit of a difference Matt.

 

This hard work fallacy - which is what it is, is just the bog standard minimum a striker is expected to do. This final third workrate? I've played the lone sriker role myself and from a comparison perspective it is no where near as demanding as central midfield, full back, or winger - no where near.

 

OK if not take my word for it, then Graeme Sharp has a clouded judgement - "does not do enough, he does not make enough runs"

[Hafnia]

Not at all. I don't get the point though, who cares about other teams?

 

Our striker isn't getting good enough service, and is not being played properly (in my opinion).

 

so he needs more chances than other strikers who are scoring more than him who have the similar number of shots?