Romey 1878 Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Let him rot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Let him rot. Ah, so you want to play better football, yet are too proud to accept back one of the guys who were responsible for our 'better' football? Is that not a tad on the hypocritical side, especially as we have no money and can't be picky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 He wanted out and that being the case I wouldn't want him back, I also think Drenthe is a far better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Ah, so you want to play better football, yet are too proud to accept back one of the guys who were responsible for our 'better' football? Is that not a tad on the hypocritical side, especially as we have no money and can't be picky? No it's not. He wanted to leave to play Champions League football, we weren't good enough for him, so if he came back to Everton he'd see that as lowering himself because we can't offer him Champions League football. I don't want any one playing for us with that sort of mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 No we shouldn't take him back. What sort of message is that to players? "Yeah go on, have a go at earning a few more quid, don't worry if it doesn't work out we will go cap in hand to get you back." He could have been straight earlier, he used the world cup as an advirtisement opportunity. We can move on from him, drenthe is a better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I wish I had a Bentley. I'm not sure if I was offered one on loan I'd give a shit who it's previous owner was, and insist they went and got me a fresh one. Honestly guys. How can you want so much, and then stipulate where your needs are met? You're in no position to refuse players. It's like a beggar on the street insisting that any money he gets be from a certain bank. Have you heard of the expression 'cutting your nose off to spite your face?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I wish I had a Bentley. I'm not sure if I was offered one on loan I'd give a shit who it's previous owner was, and insist they went and got me a fresh one. Honestly guys. How can you want so much, and then stipulate where your needs are met? You're in no position to refuse players. It's like a beggar on the street insisting that any money he gets be from a certain bank. Have you heard of the expression 'cutting your nose off to spite your face?' If Osman was our only option for the wing then I'd see it as a decent move, because Osman is crap on the wing, but while we have Gueye and Drenthe who can play there I'd rather they get the opportunity to play tbh. I'd hate for them to lose game time to a player who didn't view us as good enough despite us rescuing him from his previous hell, let someone else rescue him from the self-inflicted hell this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 If Osman was our only option for the wing then I'd see it as a decent move, because Osman is crap on the wing, but while we have Gueye and Drenthe who can play there I'd rather they get the opportunity to play tbh. I'd hate for them to lose game time to a player who didn't view us as good enough despite us rescuing him from his previous hell, let someone else rescue him from the self-inflicted hell this time. BANG.......... or is it BOOM?.... whatever it is......... yay!............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBlood81 Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Ah, so you want to play better football, yet are too proud to accept back one of the guys who were responsible for our 'better' football? Is that not a tad on the hypocritical side, especially as we have no money and can't be picky? Exactly this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 BANG.......... or is it BOOM?.... whatever it is......... yay!............ It's KABOOM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Let him rot. yup. Were no worse without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 It's KABOOM Yeah thats him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 yup. Were no worse without him. We really need a scratch head smiley on here guys. Folk haven't stopped crying all season. How can we possibly be no worse without him? If I have 1 million in the bank, and you give me a quid, I'm a quid better off. Take away 2 quid and I'm worse off than I started. Love him or hate him, Pienaar was an asset. It's one thing being sentimental about players getting games, but it's another to be realistic and know certain players haven't made the step up yet. A squad is a squad, and another body at the moment is paramount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adziom Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I don't think Pienaar would improve the team very much and I'd rather see players who genuinely want to play for the club - Osman, Coleman - on the pitch. Pienaar walked out on us at the end of the day, and although he would offer us more depth and a solid option, I think we need to be looking at long term options rather than allowing an old flame to "go backwards to go forwards" as I'm sure he'd see it if he returned to Goodison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Pienaar didn't walk out on us. We sold him. He honoured his contract, and we made a profit at the end of it. Sentimental principals might encourage a 'thanks but no thanks' reaction, but we are not in a position to be sentimental. I can't understand fans who complain we are struggling, yet refuse players based on sentiment. Still, perhaps Moyes can wave his magic wand and pull another star out of the hat for little money, but if I was him, I'd look at our forums, and stick 2 fingers up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Pienaar didn't walk out on us. We sold him. He honoured his contract, and we made a profit at the end of it. Sentimental principals might encourage a 'thanks but no thanks' reaction, but we are not in a position to be sentimental. I can't understand fans who complain we are struggling, yet refuse players based on sentiment. Still, perhaps Moyes can wave his magic wand and pull another star out of the hat for little money, but if I was him, I'd look at our forums, and stick 2 fingers up. We done better without him last season, double the points without him on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 We really need a scratch head smiley on here guys. Folk haven't stopped crying all season. How can we possibly be no worse without him? If I have 1 million in the bank, and you give me a quid, I'm a quid better off. Take away 2 quid and I'm worse off than I started. Love him or hate him, Pienaar was an asset. It's one thing being sentimental about players getting games, but it's another to be realistic and know certain players haven't made the step up yet. A squad is a squad, and another body at the moment is paramount. he was a player who ran his ass off but contributed few assists and few goals. Compare Bilys goals and assists per game and its almost evens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 he was a player who ran his ass off but contributed few assists and few goals. Compare Bilys goals and assists per game and its almost evens. Take into account he hasn't had a decent run of games to settle in the team and he probably edges the stats per minute, jus shows how shite Pienaar is, and how unjustified his bashers are who covet for Pienaar are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoblue Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 If Osman was our only option for the wing then I'd see it as a decent move, because Osman is crap on the wing, but while we have Gueye and Drenthe who can play there I'd rather they get the opportunity to play tbh. I'd hate for them to lose game time to a player who didn't view us as good enough despite us rescuing him from his previous hell, let someone else rescue him from the self-inflicted hell this time. Last time I checked Gueye wasn't exactly forcing the opposition to cower in fear. Don't really think I've seen anything from him (limited though his game time has been) to suggest he's ready to play 90 minutes week in week out. Pienaar didn't walk out on us. We sold him. He honoured his contract, and we made a profit at the end of it. Sentimental principals might encourage a 'thanks but no thanks' reaction, but we are not in a position to be sentimental. I can't understand fans who complain we are struggling, yet refuse players based on sentiment. Still, perhaps Moyes can wave his magic wand and pull another star out of the hat for little money, but if I was him, I'd look at our forums, and stick 2 fingers up. Pienaar didn't do anything wrong leaving. He's seeing now that it was a mistake, but we would be a better team with him at least as an option. He at least would have tried to play a through ball or two against Stoke. he was a player who ran his ass off but contributed few assists and few goals. Compare Bilys goals and assists per game and its almost evens. Completely specious argument. Pienaar has been 3x the player for this club that BIly has. Can't even believe anyone would advance this argument after his 'performance' Sunday. Two reasons Pienaar doesn't have the points he should. 1) He can't shoot. It's a shame, but it's a fact. 2) If this were hockey he'd be top of out assists chart (second assist), his job was to create space for Baines to whip in threatening crosses from behind their D, something no one besides Drenthe has been able to replicate; we all know we're going to have injuries and that we're far too thin. We're going to bring someone in come January, would you prefer a player who you know would improve our game or a random lower league gamble? I'm all for investing in youth, but right now we need nous and quality, both of which Pienaar has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 My sentiments exactly Chicago. I was beginning to wonder if I'd dreamt the whole Pienaar experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) I don't think Pienaar would improve the team very much and I'd rather see players who genuinely want to play for the club - Osman, Coleman - on the pitch. Pienaar walked out on us at the end of the day, and although he would offer us more depth and a solid option, I think we need to be looking at long term options rather than allowing an old flame to "go backwards to go forwards" as I'm sure he'd see it if he returned to Goodison. I bet Baines would have him back, he's only been half the player since Pienaar went, and if any football was played by Everton it was played by Pienaar, always ready to lay a pass and run, take on defenders and draw players away so Baines could enjoy himself. You never saw Pienaar hoof the ball 40 yards, and anybody who says he wouldn't improve this present squad, knows very little about football. I hope we get him here, if only for five months, and Donovan on the other side. Edited December 7, 2011 by Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Last time I checked Gueye wasn't exactly forcing the opposition to cower in fear. Don't really think I've seen anything from him (limited though his game time has been) to suggest he's ready to play 90 minutes week in week out. Like you say, hes not been given the chance? Pienaar didn't do anything wrong leaving. He's seeing now that it was a mistake, but we would be a better team with him at least as an option. He at least would have tried to play a through ball or two against Stoke. Completely specious argument. Pienaar has been 3x the player for this club that BIly has. Can't even believe anyone would advance this argument after his 'performance' Sunday. Two reasons Pienaar doesn't have the points he should. 1) He can't shoot. It's a shame, but it's a fact. 2) If this were hockey he'd be top of out assists chart (second assist), his job was to create space for Baines to whip in threatening crosses from behind their D, something no one besides Drenthe has been able to replicate; we all know we're going to have injuries and that we're far too thin. Goals win games, goals come from assists. Specious (nice word by the way, long time since Ive seen it!) or not stats dont lie. You could also be describing Ossie/Coleman with those 2 points about 2nd assists, or any other player really. Im not saying Pienaar wasnt good for us, its just since he left I realized he didnt do as much as I thought he did. We're going to bring someone in come January, would you prefer a player who you know would improve our game or a random lower league gamble? I'm all for investing in youth, but right now we need nous and quality, both of which Pienaar has. But he hasnt played games, has been injured on and off and wont be up to par even by the end of the loan spell. I would rather be taking a chance on our somewhat unknown youngsters (Maggie is prime example) who are hungry to make an impact, rather than someone who buggered off for more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Last time I checked Gueye wasn't exactly forcing the opposition to cower in fear. Don't really think I've seen anything from him (limited though his game time has been) to suggest he's ready to play 90 minutes week in week out. Last time I checked he hadn't had much of an opportunity in our first team but has been getting assist after assist, and a few goals for the reserves. Assists and goals are exactly what we need. Someone, or something different, is precisely what we need because the status quo isn't working. I'd rather give him more playing time than spunk wages on bringing Pienaar back to take opportunities away from a youngster already here. We should save the wages to spend on a striker. We're already wasting wages on bringing McFadden back and he hasn't even been on the bench since the Newcastle game. I've been wanting our younger players to be given an opportunity so it'd have been hypocritical of me to go against that by wanting Pienaar back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 I bet Baines would have him back, he's only been half the player since Pienaar went, and if any football was played by Everton it was played by Pienaar, always ready to lay a pass and run, take on defenders and draw players away so Baines could enjoy himself. You never saw Pienaar hoof the ball 40 yards, and anybody who says he wouldn't improve this present squad, knows very little about football. I hope we get him here, if only for five months, and Donovan on the other side. It isnt just about stats - assists goals etc its about what you bring to the team and I agree that he helped Baines put in some great performances and their partnership worked well. Personally I would have him back here. I wasnt happy how he left but we couldnt offer him what he wanted as a footballer, granted we still can't but we can offer him game time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 It isnt just about stats - assists goals etc It is when we're severely lacking in the two . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 It is when we're severely lacking in the two . If he helps Baines create more opportunities/assists then he is an asset to the side. I would suggest his work rate did enable Baines to get in more advanced positions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 PLEASE - stop talking about assists or goals. In this debate, they are irrelevant. They are great for other things, but not when it comes to judging a player. Please tell me how many assists Tim Howard has, or Fellaini, or Jags? Let's sell all 3, because they have clearly contributed sod all to the team, as their assist ratio is low. Pienaar passes to Arteta, who plays it inside to Fellaini. Fellaini spots Pienaars run, and feeds it through to Pienaar, who cleverly lays it off for Baines. Baines rounds one player, then back heels it to Pienaar, who plays a beautiful pass to Saha. Pienaar runs behind the defence taking 2 defenders with him, as Saha passes to Yakubu who taps it in from 2 yards. That Yakubu must be awesome, and another fantastic assist for Saha's stats. Time Pienaar pulled his finger out of his ass though, useless git ! Wake up lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 PLEASE - stop talking about assists or goals. In this debate, they are irrelevant. They are great for other things, but not when it comes to judging a player. Please tell me how many assists Tim Howard has, or Fellaini, or Jags? Let's sell all 3, because they have clearly contributed sod all to the team, as their assist ratio is low. Pienaar passes to Arteta, who plays it inside to Fellaini. Fellaini spots Pienaars run, and feeds it through to Pienaar, who cleverly lays it off for Baines. Baines rounds one player, then back heels it to Pienaar, who plays a beautiful pass to Saha. Pienaar runs behind the defence taking 2 defenders with him, as Saha passes to Yakubu who taps it in from 2 yards. That Yakubu must be awesome, and another fantastic assist for Saha's stats. Time Pienaar pulled his finger out of his ass though, useless git ! Wake up lads. why are they irrelevant? You want to compare a GK, DCM and a DC with an attacking midfielder?! Dude, come on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 why are they irrelevant? You want to compare a GK, DCM and a DC with an attacking midfielder?! Dude, come on! Did you even read my post Matt? That ... is why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Did you even read my post Matt? That ... is why. yes I did and it made about as much sense as this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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